Tyson in the all time P4P

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 06 Aug 2004, 10:48

jamesmcdonnell wrote:It's seen as sacriledge to mention that Tyson would have a chance against Loius, but it is not that improbably. For what it is worth, i would have given Patterson a chance too, mainly because he had phenomenal punch power and was very very quick.

There is no way I am saying Tyson is as good a champ, Louis is #1 on my list, for achievement and longevity, nobody comes close, but he did prevail in a weakish era.

There was no era weaker than the one Tyson fought in.

journeyman · Post by **journeyman** » 06 Aug 2004, 10:49

bennie wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:It's seen as sacriledge to mention that Tyson would have a chance against Loius, but it is not that improbably. For what it is worth, i would have given Patterson a chance too, mainly because he had phenomenal punch power and was very very quick.

There is no way I am saying Tyson is as good a champ, Louis is #1 on my list, for achievement and longevity, nobody comes close, but he did prevail in a weakish era.
There was no era weaker than the one Tyson fought in.

i'd have to agree

except for this current one, of course.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Aug 2004, 10:57

It's touch and go with Marciano's title reign I would say. Ageing versions of Charles, Walcott and Louis, Roland LaStarza! Hardly the stuff of legend. Mind you, Tyson's best wins were over our era's Charles, Spinks, our version of Louis, an over the hill and inactive Holmes.

beduff · Post by **beduff** » 06 Aug 2004, 11:22

james whats your top ten with reasons[as you seem to have a opion of your right and everyone else is wrong]??

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Aug 2004, 11:28

I've already given that further up.

And come on, everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong, it's called an OPINION. It doesn't make it right, but it's what I believe based on what knowledge i have managed to accumulate.

I gave my criteria for rating the heavyweight champions much further up in the thread.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 06 Aug 2004, 11:32

bennie wrote:
My ten greatest fighters ever

1) SUGAR RAY ROBINSON
2) MUHAMMAD ALI
3) JOE LOUIS
4) HENRY ARMSTRONG
5) WILLIE PEP
6) ARCHIE MOORE
7) SUGAR RAY LEONARD
8] MARVIN HAGLER
9) ROBERTO DURAN
10) BENNY LEONARD

Archie Moore but no Ezzard Charles?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Aug 2004, 11:35

I know it's a difficult one isn't it, but can you really have them both in there. Ezzard often gets overlooked, but he actually arguably achieved more than Moore. He was the best light heavy in the world, and never got a shot, and then managed to win heavy title, but didn't hold it long.

Archie gets there partly on novelty, he was such a freak his prime came between 39-45 year of age, which is quite remarkable.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Aug 2004, 11:39

beduff wrote:foreman would of killed tyson in know specific order my all time top 5,ali,foreman,frazier,lewis,marciano.on the frenge are shavers and joe louis.i rate tyson around 8/9.

Please explain how Shavers rated above Tyson, despite the fact that he failed in all his title bids, that is just plain silly. Louis and Shavers are 'on the fringes!'

Christ, and you are asking me to justify MY top 10, yours is just nuts. Frazier is ranked above Louis, Lewis above Louis! Foreman above Louis!!!!

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 06 Aug 2004, 11:57

For Earnie SHavers read Frank Bruno.

Bruno was fortunate to fight in an era with more belts.

beduff · Post by **beduff** » 06 Aug 2004, 12:08

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
beduff wrote:foreman would of killed tyson in know specific order my all time top 5,ali,foreman,frazier,lewis,marciano.on the frenge are shavers and joe louis.i rate tyson around 8/9.
Please explain how Shavers rated above Tyson, despite the fact that he failed in all his title bids, that is just plain silly. Louis and Shavers are 'on the fringes!'

Christ, and you are asking me to justify MY top 10, yours is just nuts. Frazier is ranked above Louis, Lewis above Louis! Foreman above Louis!!!!

becuase shavers took on the best when the best were in there prime

who did tyson beat in or around the top ten in there primes?plus he hits harder than tyson.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Aug 2004, 12:11

So what if he hit harder than Tyson, does that make him a better fighter, nope. Your talking out your arse. Tyson hit harder than Ali, but he wasn't a better fighter.

Yes, Shavers took them on in their primes, and lost to all of them.

Stopped by Ron Stander in 5, Jerry Quarry in 1!, Ron Lyle in a war in 6, Ali and Holmes by decision. Wins over Jimmy Ellis and Jimmy Young do not elevate you beyond Tyson in the standings, nor Louis. You silly boy.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 06 Aug 2004, 12:17

DavidPayne wrote:
bennie wrote:
My ten greatest fighters ever

1) SUGAR RAY ROBINSON
2) MUHAMMAD ALI
3) JOE LOUIS
4) HENRY ARMSTRONG
5) WILLIE PEP
6) ARCHIE MOORE
7) SUGAR RAY LEONARD
8] MARVIN HAGLER
9) ROBERTO DURAN
10) BENNY LEONARD
Archie Moore but no Ezzard Charles?

I know Archie Moore was knocked out by Ezzard - lost to him three times in fact, but everybody has a bogeyman and longevity of greatness counts for a lot in my opinion. Moore, in the end, proved he was a great fighter.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 06 Aug 2004, 12:19

Not disputing that but did he prove to be a greater fighter than Archie?

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 06 Aug 2004, 12:22

DavidPayne wrote:Not disputing that but did he prove to be a greater fighter than Archie?

I wouldn't disagree with Ezzard over Archie.

beduff · Post by **beduff** » 06 Aug 2004, 14:39

jamesmcdonnell wrote:So what if he hit harder than Tyson, does that make him a better fighter, nope. Your talking out your arse. Tyson hit harder than Ali, but he wasn't a better fighter.

Yes, Shavers took them on in their primes, and lost to all of them.

Stopped by Ron Stander in 5, Jerry Quarry in 1!, Ron Lyle in a war in 6, Ali and Holmes by decision. Wins over Jimmy Ellis and Jimmy Young do not elevate you beyond Tyson in the standings, nor Louis. You silly boy.

so he lost by desion to the greatest fighter in the history of boxing and he aint no good

imo tyson was a great entertainer[the greatest]but is well over rated

take your blinkers off and see by all the hype you stupid sheep

beduff · Post by **beduff** » 06 Aug 2004, 14:40

james i think i hit a nerve about your opion always being right didnt i you silly boy

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 06 Aug 2004, 14:45

beduff wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:So what if he hit harder than Tyson, does that make him a better fighter, nope. Your talking out your arse. Tyson hit harder than Ali, but he wasn't a better fighter.

Yes, Shavers took them on in their primes, and lost to all of them.

Stopped by Ron Stander in 5, Jerry Quarry in 1!, Ron Lyle in a war in 6, Ali and Holmes by decision. Wins over Jimmy Ellis and Jimmy Young do not elevate you beyond Tyson in the standings, nor Louis. You silly boy.

so he lost by desion to the greatest fighter in the history of boxing and he aint no good imo tyson was a great entertainer[the greatest]but is well over rated take your blinkers off and see by all the hype you stupid sheep

You think Earnie Shavers is one of the top 10 heavyweights of all time?

beduff · Post by **beduff** » 06 Aug 2004, 15:47

yeh

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Aug 2004, 16:14

My ranking is based on achivement etc - However, I think Tyson would have beaten any heavyweight in history in his prime. I've noticed the threads discussing a mythical Tyson vs Frazier fight - most seemed to be going for Frazier. However, when Frazier fought a fearsome punching come forward fighter (Foreman) what happend. If Foreman can catch Frazier, then so could have Tyson and KO'd him.

Foreman was a fearsome fighter, but lacked the handspeed of Tyson - that why I think Tyson would beat him, remember a prime Tyson didn't have the stamina issues that he has now and his chin is solid too.

Louis, great boxers and fantastic puncher - but his chin wasn't the greatest of all time. If Tony Galleto could floor him, Tyson could knock him out.

There a four fighter who would have given Tyson some real problems (well all the top fighters could, but I would probably tip these over Tyson). These are Ali, Holmes, Marciano, and Holyfield. Tyson would be able to continue what he did in the first round vs Lewis for a bit longer and would catch him.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 06 Aug 2004, 16:45

I disagree with Tyson beating Lewis. I always got the impression with Lennox that the bigger the challenge the better he would fight.

As for Frazier vs Tyson, I think Joe rips him up on the inside where Tyson is helpless and stops Mike late. He's not gonna fear Mike at all. Foreman was massive compared to Joe and looked incredibly intimidating in their fights.

I think Marciano is vastly underrated. His opposition wasn't that bad, Ezzard wasn't all that much smaller than him and he's top 15 P4P all time imo. Marciano was a recking machine and would fight bell to bell non stop for 15 rounds.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 06 Aug 2004, 16:59

stujones wrote:My ranking is based on achivement etc - However, I think Tyson would have beaten any heavyweight in history in his prime. I've noticed the threads discussing a mythical Tyson vs Frazier fight - most seemed to be going for Frazier. However, when Frazier fought a fearsome punching come forward fighter (Foreman) what happend. If Foreman can catch Frazier, then so could have Tyson and KO'd him.

Foreman was a fearsome fighter, but lacked the handspeed of Tyson - that why I think Tyson would beat him, remember a prime Tyson didn't have the stamina issues that he has now and his chin is solid too.

Louis, great boxers and fantastic puncher - but his chin wasn't the greatest of all time. If Tony Galleto could floor him, Tyson could knock him out.

There a four fighter who would have given Tyson some real problems (well all the top fighters could, but I would probably tip these over Tyson). These are Ali, Holmes, Marciano, and Holyfield. Tyson would be able to continue what he did in the first round vs Lewis for a bit longer and would catch him.

When was Tysons prime? When he KO'ed Berbick or the bloated Spinks?

Tyson is not beating Foreman. Im not even sure Mike would dare attack Foreman in the way he did other guys, if does he gets his ass handed to him early and if he doesn't Foreman get the job done a bit later on. Mike wouldn't be able to do a damn thing on the inside against George, Foreman would have bullied Mike bigtime from the clinch.

Buster Douglas wasn't a puncher and he KO'ed Mike, but of course Tyson was past prime then, as all his losses where according to his legions of fanatics. Not calling you a fanatic by the way.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 06 Aug 2004, 17:18

stujones wrote:I think Tyson would have beaten any heavyweight in history in his prime.

You think a prime Mike Tyson would have beaten a prime Joe Louis?

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 06 Aug 2004, 17:26

stujones wrote:My ranking is based on achivement etc - However, I think Tyson would have beaten any heavyweight in history in his prime. I've noticed the threads discussing a mythical Tyson vs Frazier fight - most seemed to be going for Frazier. However, when Frazier fought a fearsome punching come forward fighter (Foreman) what happend. If Foreman can catch Frazier, then so could have Tyson and KO'd him.

Foreman was a fearsome fighter, but lacked the handspeed of Tyson - that why I think Tyson would beat him, remember a prime Tyson didn't have the stamina issues that he has now and his chin is solid too.

Louis, great boxers and fantastic puncher - but his chin wasn't the greatest of all time. If Tony Galleto could floor him, Tyson could knock him out.

There a four fighter who would have given Tyson some real problems (well all the top fighters could, but I would probably tip these over Tyson). These are Ali, Holmes, Marciano, and Holyfield. Tyson would be able to continue what he did in the first round vs Lewis for a bit longer and would catch him.

Agree....except for Marciano
And Foreman was not massive compared to Frazier, he was only 3lb more than Joe Frazier when they fought 217lb.(15.5stone).

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Aug 2004, 18:28

bennie wrote:
stujones wrote:I think Tyson would have beaten any heavyweight in history in his prime.
You think a prime Mike Tyson would have beaten a prime Joe Louis?

Yep, I rank Louis alot higher on achievement, but his chin wasn't his strongest point and Tyson's hand speed and power you'd have to give him a chance on catching him. Tommy Farr caught him on numerous occasions, Tony Galletto did aswell - both not even in Tyson's league.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 07 Aug 2004, 04:08

stujones wrote:
bennie wrote:
stujones wrote:I think Tyson would have beaten any heavyweight in history in his prime.
You think a prime Mike Tyson would have beaten a prime Joe Louis?
Yep, I rank Louis alot higher on achievement, but his chin wasn't his strongest point and Tyson's hand speed and power you'd have to give him a chance on catching him. Tommy Farr caught him on numerous occasions, Tony Galletto did aswell - both not even in Tyson's league.

Tyson wasn't fit to carry Joe Louis' jockstrap.