Tyson: Following The Bite Fight

[HomicideHenry]

Its often crossed my mind on the opinions of the fans and critics alike about Mike Tyson's prowess and ability following his second loss to Holyfield, til his knockout loss against Lennox Lewis. He was still the biggest attraction in boxing, but the questions comes up: how far gone was Tyson? Who was his toughest opponent during this time period? And what was his biggest win to even give him any credit for getting a title shot?

Here's the opponents, with a short analysis on each, showing where they were in boxing at the time:

Francois Botha (39-1-0); Botha at the time was the NABA heavyweight champion, and since losing to Michael Moorer for the IBF title, he racked up 4 wins by way of knockout. Clearly he was still a top contender, as following his loss to Tyson he drew Shannon Briggs.

Orlin Norris (50-5-0); durable enough, he was currently the IBA 'Super' Cruiserweight champion, and had recently lost to Henry Akinwande by decision. He was also a former WBA Cruiserweight champion.

Julius Francis (39-1-0); Francis was the BBBC and Commonwealth champion of England

Lou Savarese (39-3-0); former world title challenger was coming off a decision loss to Michael Grant at the time.

Andrew Golota (36-4-0); he challenged for the HW title once before against Lennox Lewis, failing miserably, and was just coming off a knockout loss to Michael Grant. (Btw, weren't the Bowe/Golota fights for the WBO title?)

Brian Nielson (62-1-0); he was the IBC champion as well as the IBO champion. His greatest win was over Larry Holmes back in 1997.

[HomicideHenry]

IMHO, Tyson's toughest opponent during this time period was Botha. His greatest win, however, was over Golota. All his other opponents, were buyable, and durable enough, but by no means a threat.

[Robinson]

He did fight guys that were 'beatable' but credible as such.
Tyson was himself a tarnished man. He always entertained
for better or worse.

I always found with him in this period that he liked to load up
alot and always seemed to look for thta one big punch. This
is how Botha managed to look ok against him, until Tyson
found it.

In the Nielsen bfight it seemed Tyson tried to work combinations
and bursts, but his weight and conditioning seemed to rob
him of this tactic.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Its often crossed my mind on the opinions of the fans and critics alike about Mike Tyson's prowess and ability following his second loss to Holyfield, til his knockout loss against Lennox Lewis.

- If you go back, it crossed a lot of minds how viable Tyson was gonna be coming out of prison the first go round and fighting McNeely for his opener followed by Buster Mathis.

If he was really gonna be a fighter, and if King had any confidence in him, it would have been easier to find a durable durable solid journeyman in the day to get some real work in. His vicious attacks and early KOs quickly blinded the critics into thinking he was back.

What happens in the fight game is a fighter ends up being under or overrated on previous fights.

He never challenged another truly top heavy again after the Ruddock series. Mr. E. H. Field was considered shot after Tyson got out of prison and considered a wink link in the division. Notice that after the bite, he's out of action after being incarcerated again for kicking "Richard" Hardick between the legs in a traffic incident and beating up his friend. Guy was still in the middle of a train wreck.

Technically Botha might have cracked the Ring top 10 briefly during this time and would be the best he beat along with Neilson and Ettienne who people forget was briefly highly regarded for a short while. Fringe contenders all, not legit Ring top 10 contenders.

[Robinson]

I always wanted to see Tyson fight Grant, Tua or Ike during this
period. Sadly we would never have it.

The mention of Izon and Sullivan fights sadly never materialised
as they would have been interesting. But again cases of, which
round does he win in...

[SteveO]

Btw, weren't the Bowe/Golota fights for the WBO title

No, homicidehenry - the Bowe v Golota fights were not for the WBO title.

[observer1]

An intresting way to look at it is like this.

Before Tyson was sent to Prison: - 41 Wins -1 Loss



Tyson's Record After prison: - 9 Wins ( +2 Wins which were later ruled NC) - 4 Loss

Says it all really. Tyson was spent after Prison, and in the last several bouts, it was clear he was still there for one reason, the Money.

[gregor]

I always wanted to see Tyson fight Grant, Tua or Ike during this
period. Sadly we would never have it.

Tua or Ike could possibly be great fights, but Grant would be badly demolished (like he got demolished every time he faced decent opponent who did not quit).

Robinson, I think the difference between Tyson-Botha and Tyson-Nielsen was because Botha was quite active and actually tried to win the fight, while Nielsen was just trying to survive most of the time.

Botha was jabbing, moving, clinching... well, doing everything to break Tyson's rhytm so he can't load his combination. Nielsen was just like punching bag (plus defence), so Tyson could fire any combination he wanted (and he had to, since it was difficult to hit someone who was concentrated on defence with single punch).

[Goodnight, Irene]

An intresting way to look at it is like this.

Before Tyson was sent to Prison: - 41 Wins -1 Loss



Tyson's Record After prison: - 9 Wins ( +2 Wins which were later ruled NC) - 4 Loss

Says it all really. Tyson was spent after Prison, and in the last several bouts, it was clear he was still there for one reason, the Money.

Adding to that, the competition was stiffer, pre-prison (as sad as that is), further emphasising his departure from those halcyon days preceding his sentencing.

That said, part of it was Tyson giving up too easily in the ring, post-prison. He probably looked more shot than he really was on occasion, because, as you rightly pointed out, he remained only for money.

[HomicideHenry]

Btw, weren't the Bowe/Golota fights for the WBO title

No, homicidehenry - the Bowe v Golota fights were not for the WBO title.

I read that Bowe got stripped of the WBO title. Why was this?

I know he beat Herbie Hide for the title, then knocked out the undefeated Jorge Luis Gonzales, and then the Golota fights happened. What occured inbetween that time where he was no longer the WBO champion?

[HomicideHenry]

Its often crossed my mind on the opinions of the fans and critics alike about Mike Tyson's prowess and ability following his second loss to Holyfield, til his knockout loss against Lennox Lewis.

- If you go back, it crossed a lot of minds how viable Tyson was gonna be coming out of prison the first go round and fighting McNeely for his opener followed by Buster Mathis.

If he was really gonna be a fighter, and if King had any confidence in him, it would have been easier to find a durable durable solid journeyman in the day to get some real work in. His vicious attacks and early KOs quickly blinded the critics into thinking he was back.

What happens in the fight game is a fighter ends up being under or overrated on previous fights.

He never challenged another truly top heavy again after the Ruddock series. Mr. E. H. Field was considered shot after Tyson got out of prison and considered a wink link in the division. Notice that after the bite, he's out of action after being incarcerated again for kicking "Richard" Hardick between the legs in a traffic incident and beating up his friend. Guy was still in the middle of a train wreck.

Technically Botha might have cracked the Ring top 10 briefly during this time and would be the best he beat along with Neilson and Ettienne who people forget was briefly highly regarded for a short while. Fringe contenders all, not legit Ring top 10 contenders.

You have to admit though, Tyson's 'come back' following the bite fight had stiffer competition than when he came out of prison. McNeeley and Mathis and the shot Frank Bruno would have had problems with Botha, Savarese, and the like. But thats just my opinion.

[SteveO]

Btw, weren't the Bowe/Golota fights for the WBO title

No, homicidehenry - the Bowe v Golota fights were not for the WBO title.

I read that Bowe got stripped of the WBO title. Why was this?

I know he beat Herbie Hide for the title, then knocked out the undefeated Jorge Luis Gonzales, and then the Golota fights happened. What occured inbetween that time where he was no longer the WBO champion?

Bowe relinquished the WBO title shortly after the Jorge Luis Gonzales defence, refusing to fight their #1 contender, Alexander Zolkin. The WBO arranged a contest between Zolkin and Henry Akinwande for their vacant title. Five days before the bout Zolkin suffered a cut eye in training and he was replaced by Jeremy Williams.
The official fight program for the first Bowe-Golota contest states that it is for the REAL heavyweight championship, but of course that was just marketing.

[HomicideHenry]

You have to agree, in a sense, that Bowe was a champ. Stripped or not, he was still the top man, or at least the number two man in the division behind Michael Moorer, as he done knocked out Holyfield. So, the billing may have been fitting.

[SteveO]

Yes, that's what Bowe thought too :-) Still you can't blame him for not wanting to fight Zolkin.

[HomicideHenry]

Who would, tbh?

Zolkin was a nobody. Bowe should have been fighting Akinwande or some other 'name' in the division. Unfortunately, as the Golota fights showed, Bowe was essentially done as a world class fighter. But man oh man, looking at the second fight, I give Bowe major credit for having one of the ATG chins in the business. He was knocked out on his feet, imo, but some how was still standing and it took a MAJOR low blow to put him down.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Bowe was down twice in that second fight on legit terms, Henry.

He showed all-time heart in the rematch, but not an all-time chin (was good, though, as he took a lot & remained standing for most of it).

[Flump]

No, homicidehenry - the Bowe v Golota fights were not for the WBO title.[/quote]

I read that Bowe got stripped of the WBO title. Why was this?

I know he beat Herbie Hide for the title, then knocked out the undefeated Jorge Luis Gonzales, and then the Golota fights happened. What occured inbetween that time where he was no longer the WBO champion?[/quote]

Bowe relinquished the WBO title shortly after the Jorge Luis Gonzales defence, refusing to fight their #1 contender, Alexander Zolkin. The WBO arranged a contest between Zolkin and Henry Akinwande for their vacant title. Five days before the bout Zolkin suffered a cut eye in training and he was replaced by Jeremy Williams.
The official fight program for the first Bowe-Golota contest states that it is for the REAL heavyweight championship, but of course that was just marketing.[/quote]

The WBO heavyweight title was and is a lightly regarded belt, if memory serves Bowe gave it up because it was hampering his career, as did Moorer and Mercer. The fact that Herbie Hide is a two time 'champion' and they sanction Tommy Morrison fighting somebody pulled out of the crowd tells you everything about the WBO heavyweight belt, particularly in the 90's.

[Ambling Alp]

[quote="HomicideHenry
You have to admit though, Tyson's 'come back' following the bite fight had stiffer competition than when he came out of prison. McNeeley and Mathis and the shot Frank Bruno would have had problems with Botha, Savarese, and the like. But thats just my opinion.[/quote]


McNeeley was a stiff who had a padded record. Mathis was better, but wasn't a serious contender.
However, Bruno was far from shot. In fact, he was coming off the biggest win of his career while winning a title belt. He was fighting smarter than he had during much of his career. He was better than anyone that Tyson fought between Holyfield and Lewis.

Tyson's win over Bruno was pretty impressive. He was very aggressive, and his timing and relexes were back. In fact after this fight, many people regarded Tyson as the best heavyweight in the world again.

[dempseyfire]

I don't know how one can argue Bruno was 'shot' when he fought Tyson in 96.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

The WBO heavyweight title was and is a lightly regarded belt, if memory serves Bowe gave it up because it was hampering his career

- Apparently he regarded it more favorably than the WBC belt which he tossed into the bin.

Must have been hampering his retirement plans since he only fought one more year and retired in disgrace.

[SteveO]

The WBO heavyweight title was and is a lightly regarded belt, if memory serves Bowe gave it up because it was hampering his career, as did Moorer and Mercer. The fact that Herbie Hide is a two time 'champion' and they sanction Tommy Morrison fighting somebody pulled out of the crowd tells you everything about the WBO heavyweight belt, particularly in the 90's.

Flump - I already posted what happened. Bowe relinquished the WBO title rather than face Alexander Zolkin, their mandatory challenger. but I suppose you could say that would have been hampering his career. So I guess he actually ditched 2 world title belts for not wanting to fight his mandatories! I regret that he never fought Lennox Lewis professionally though - that was a great shame.

[Robinson]

I don't know how one can argue Bruno was 'shot' when he fought Tyson in 96.

Agreed. That Bruno was a pretty impressive and powerful machine.
He looked good in his fight against iron jawed McCall up until the
very end.
DF, I thnk it is trendy for people to throw the word shot around
when they have not seen the complete picture

[Robinson]

Tyson fights of this era that would have been exciting...
just before and thereafter the 'bite' fight.

Vs McCall 1995-96
Vs Morrison 1995-96
Vs Mercer 1995-98
Vs Ibeabuchi 1999-2000
Vs Tua 1999-2003
Vs Grant 1999-2003
Vs Foreman 1995-96
Vs Roy Jones Jr 2002-03
Vs Rahman 2002
Vs Toney 2000-03
Vs Bowe 1995-96
Vs Witherspoon 1995-98
Vs Holmes 1995-96 (only because id like to see Holmes try to redeem himself :))


The reality is...Tyson even very late on was always going to entertain us.
Even those that 'hated' him.

[Robinson]

I find it interesting when Morrison fans suggest that Tyson was
scared to face him.

Though in 1991 Morrison was looking pretty cool and exciting
until he met Mercer.

[Collins2000]

I don't know how one can argue Bruno was 'shot' when he fought Tyson in 96.

Agreed. That Bruno was a pretty impressive and powerful machine.
He looked good in his fight against iron jawed McCall up until the
very end.
DF, I thnk it is trendy for people to throw the word shot around
when they have not seen the complete picture

Which one looked more terrified in the ring before the opening bell with Tyson? Bruno (second "fight") or Seldon?

Never seen anything like that.

They were both petrified.