Ali's "bad nights"

IronKidDynamite · Post by **IronKidDynamite** » 07 Aug 2004, 14:00

I watched the Doug Jones fight, OK just highlights of it but still...

I thought Doug really outclassed him. Ali was missing 5 punch combos and Doug was hitting him a lot. I can't say he won the fight becasue I only seen about 5 rounds but from what I saw he won. In the first round he won it by a mile and actually staggered Ali backwards. And I believe Ali was knocked down in what was ruled a slip. And don't say something like turn the sound off, because it was in Japanese and the crowd was the same all the way through. May have not been but I was concentrating on the fight not the sound. In fact I replayed it without sound.

Ali also had a bad night against Cooper. NOT just the knockdown either. He was being caught by many jab and ruoghed up inside with hooks.

I still think he's greaest heavy of all thiem even above Louis but yuo can't say he's unhittable or invincilble. He had his flaws not perfect.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 07 Aug 2004, 14:05

Only fools say any fighter is invincible/flawless. It's why I can't stand the Tyson fanatics. When they spout off about Mike being 'unbeatable' in his prime

Watch the whole Jones-Ali fight Jones wons rounds but Clay clearly wins the fight by 2 points.
Cooper is wierd b/c in both fights one can see Cooper was giving Ali a lot of trouble, even in the 2nd fight. Of course Clay's superior energy/stamina and Cooper's proness to cuts ensured Clay's victory. But Cooper's style gave Ali problems.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 07 Aug 2004, 18:10

NOBODY is perfect!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 08 Aug 2004, 13:50

I'd say Karriem Respress was unbeatable, unless he's fighting Julius Long.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 09 Aug 2004, 01:28

..i was very impressed with cooper's speed in ali I.....he stayed right with him...and at that time ali was able to move circles around everyone he fought. in their second fight either ali was faster or cooper was slower because cooper wasn't on top of him this time.

ali didn't look impressive against billy daniels ...this was very early in ali's career. the lanky daniels bounced right hands off ali whenever he threw them.

i've seen the ali/jones fight. gave it to jones. ali showed flashes of ther skill he exploited so much when he hit his prime , though....able to nullify rounds, do nothing but look as if he was winning.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 10 Aug 2004, 20:48

Jaclem wrote:
i've seen the ali/jones fight. gave it to jones.

Amazing (as well as dissappointing) how two people can watch the same fight and come away with different views, even so called professional judges...

Every boxing decision...is really the opinions of 3 people at ring side, which is somewhat flawed...every other sport has clear cut winners & losers....

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 11 Aug 2004, 01:33

...as long as the differences are honest...and by those who know the sport....they're not all that negative. i thought the ali/jones fight could have gone either way...just gave an edge to jones. if i had it say...8 to 2 for jones...i'd have no right to call myself a competent judge.

if you get two good fighters together...both of whom are skilled in the basic departments of punching, boxing, generalship..etc it will usually be a close fight... a lot of times there will be differences as to who wins. often a single round will be a deciding factor...one that could go to each fighter. when i judged amateurs we didn't score rounds as even....and i've tried to keep that factor in my judging now...though some rounds are just that....impossible to call for either boxer.

the real problem with judging....and i have never seen it as bad as it has been for the past several years in all of my years as a follower ...judging less competent....and blatanty dishonest as it is now.even when the votes go the real winner they too often come out with things like 119 to 108 in a fight that is obviously much closer.

there have always been bad decisions....but years ago when one really was odiferous it made headlines....it was the exception. now...well....too often the most suspense in a fight is how the judges are going to vote...no matter how clearly one fighter beat the other.

one problem is boxing is no longer the major sport it used to be, and doesn't get the scrutiny of the press. plus..there were writers then who were primarily BOXING writers and knew a bad call when they saw one..and they wrote about it. that kind of boxing reporter is just about extinct today.

too many weight divisions...too many sanctioning bodies and too many "champions" are three reasons why boxing fades more and more into being a minor sport....and bad decisions add greatly to the disillusionment.

IronKidDynamite · Post by **IronKidDynamite** » 11 Aug 2004, 09:25

I can't really say I can give a scorecard because as I said I've only seen highlights about 8 minutes of highlights. But in the rounds I saw, 1, 4 and 10 Ali was being outlanded by 2-1 at least. Ali's lands were mostly partially blocked too. I'll give Ali the benefit of the doubt andsay he won.

I agree with Dempseyfire, every fighter has his bad nights. Dempsey in his prime was outclassed by Carpentier in my opinion, Tunney was beaten by Greb, Louis in his prime was KTFO by Schmeling, knocked down by journeymen and outlanded a lot by Jack Sharkey. Marciano was outlanded by Walcott and knocked down by Moore and him, Ali in his prime(pre-retirement) by Jones and Cooper had trouble.

Tyson in his prime actually had trouble with fighters such as Tony Tucker who won a few rounds, and fat Tony Tubbs before the KO was actually doing very well.

However Dempseyfire, don't mix up Tyson fanatics with normal fans of him. Not all of us are fanatics. And actualy there are Marciano and Dempsey fanatics just like Tyson fanatics.

revporl · Post by **revporl** » 11 Aug 2004, 14:55

I think nearly every night was a bad night for Ali post Frazier III.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 12 Aug 2004, 11:38

Jaclem wrote:...
the real problem with judging....and i have never seen it as bad as it has been for the past several years in all of my years as a follower ...judging less competent....and blatanty dishonest as it is now.even when the votes go the real winner they too often come out with things like 119 to 108 in a fight that

too many weight divisions...too many sanctioning bodies and too many "champions" are three reasons why boxing fades more and more into being a minor sport....and bad decisions add greatly to the disillusionment.

I couldn't agree more. well done!!!

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 09 Oct 2004, 18:52

I don't understand how anyone, especially a seasoned boxing fan, could think Ali lost the Jones fight. I watched it, filmed it, and scored it at the same time as a friend of mine who's a fellow boxing fan and has been watching boxing for over 30 years, and we both tried to score it favorably for Jones and give him all the close rounds, but still came up with Ali winning 6-4.

Jones obviously gave Ali a lot of problems and even staggered him in the first round, but overall, Ali was much more active and clearly threw and landed considerably more punches(and I don't think Jones was hitting much harder than Ali, if at all, or inflicting any more damage besides in the first round when he caught Ali cold). Jones' best rounds after the 1st were the 6th and 7th when Ali appeared to be taking a break, but Ali then clearly took the last couple rounds and clearly won the fight.

I don't see how anyone could reasonably score that fight for Jones. It just baffles me that so many people honestly thought Jones beat Ali.