is boxing a business or a sport?

black panther · Post by **black panther** » 07 Aug 2004, 10:29

with the recent hatton - harris fiasco and this year having the worst record for fights falling through is boxing just a business? in sport we know who is the best because the play each other in boxing the best rarely fight and u have 50 boxers calling themselves the best.

as a huge boxing fan its doing ma head in .

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 07 Aug 2004, 10:54

Yes it is a business or a sport.

Jacko11 · Post by **Jacko11** » 07 Aug 2004, 12:58

80% buiness 20% sport

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 07 Aug 2004, 15:01

In my eye's it's a sport, but the people who run boxing don't see it that way.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 07 Aug 2004, 15:03

Like Football it's a business, probably 80-20 as Jacko said.

somerstown · Post by **somerstown** » 07 Aug 2004, 16:07

This isn't neccessarily the boxers fault. Im sure most boxers want to prove to themselves and others that they are the best in their division. I think its the minority of boxers that are more concerned with the buisness side.

But unfortunatly the promoters are primarily buisnessmen (is that sexist ??) so thats the way the cookie crumbles.......

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 07 Aug 2004, 17:21

All depends on what side of the ropes you are in.

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 08 Aug 2004, 17:45

Business now. Years ago before all these muppet titles came along it was more of a sport.

Lausse · Post by **Lausse** » 08 Aug 2004, 18:57

Well to Roy Jones it is definately only a business.He never takes a fight against a opponent who could actually give hima run for his titles.Never fought Nunn at 160,Eubank or Benn at 168 or Dariusz Michalczewski at 175,these were the best fighters at each of these weights and he never wanted to fight them.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 08 Aug 2004, 19:10

Roy would have beaten Eubank and Benn pretty easily at 168 imo, that was Roy at his peak at that weight. He would have absolutely smoked Dariusz who is one of the slowest champs ive ever seen. I don't imagine Nunn would have wanted to fight Roy. Besides, Toney beat Nunn, if somewhat luckily.

Lausse · Post by **Lausse** » 08 Aug 2004, 21:23

Lefthookhappy19 wrote:Roy would have beaten Eubank and Benn pretty easily at 168 imo, that was Roy at his peak at that weight. He would have absolutely smoked Dariusz who is one of the slowest champs ive ever seen. I don't imagine Nunn would have wanted to fight Roy. Besides, Toney beat Nunn, if somewhat luckily.

So why did RJJ refuse a 10 000 000$ purse split 50/50 to fight DM in the US no less.Kohl offered that sum and DM said lets go 50/50 which was fair since the belts that RJJ had around his waist he didn't even fight for,DM fought for them and beat the recognized champ Hill to get them only to get stripped almost immediately afterward.HBO was more than willing to market and promote the fight but RJJ wanted no part of a prime DM,he demanded 70% even though he hadn't even fought for the damn belts and wasn't a huge draw either at the time.And DM was a pressure fighter with good power and a hard ramrod jab,whoever thinks that a prime DM couldn't have beaten RJJ is wrong.Griffin and Harding both gave RJJ some very uncomfortable moments when they pressured him against the ropes and DM would have pressured him all night long looking for the KO.People also forget how DM didn't like RJJ and his shit talking,he wanted to teach him some respect and shut his mouth.He was willing to go to the US,give RJJ hometown advantage and hometown judging just for the opportunity to knock some sense into him.RJJ knew that a prime DM would have given him a run for his money and would have been his most dangerous and competitive opponent up to that time so he priced himself out in typical RJJ fashion.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Aug 2004, 05:53

RJJ would have whupped Dariusz, end of story.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 09 Aug 2004, 07:54

I often wind up Tyson fans by listing the fighters he never faced for one reason or another. I'm not saying they would all have beaten him at the times the fights could have been made but most of them represented harder fights than the some of the bums he did meet.

e.g. Witherspoon, Bowe, Foreman, Mercer, Briggs, Morrison, Moorer, Tua, Byrd and he waited as long as possible for Holyfield and Lewis too.

However, I'm intrigued to read a list of the guys RJJ could or should have fought instead of some of the bums he did face. They weren't ALL bums, but could we come with some damning evidence?

Daruisz M, Chris Eubank, Nigel Benn, Steve Collins, Michael Nunn, Bernard Hopkins II, .....

Please fill in the gaps....

J · Post by J » 09 Aug 2004, 08:00

YOU CAN ADD A TONEY REMATCH TO THAT DAVID.

been quiet concussion, smacked my head open on my mantlepeice sat night pissed at 5 am .

very funny for everyone else there apparently, I went to get up smacked my head and fell down again, claret all over the show

good bbq tho, in fact legendary.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Aug 2004, 08:08

Wish I'd been there to see it. Christ, must have been some BBQ, 5 a.m, pretty good going.

J · Post by J » 09 Aug 2004, 08:19

it started at 2 pm.

i can see the funny side tho my other half couldnt when i asked her to fetch the tweezers to pick a bit of wood out of my head

never a dull moment hey!

nor yesterday when i was not the most joyful of folk to be around

Lausse · Post by **Lausse** » 09 Aug 2004, 12:51

jamesmcdonnell wrote:RJJ would have whupped Dariusz, end of story.

I guess he wasn't nearly as confident of that as you are.I am not saying he would not have won but to say that DM wouldn't have a chance is rather silly to say the least.DM was stripped because RJJ was more marketable to urban americans and the american public while DM was a european fighter who most people couldn't even pronounce his name properly let alone know who he was.I'm just wondering jamesmcdonnell whether you think DM being stripped of his belts almost immediately after having won them is just or unjust.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 09 Aug 2004, 12:59

jamesmcdonnell wrote:RJJ would have whupped Dariusz, end of story.

i think DM would have had the same chance Tarver had.......

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 09 Aug 2004, 15:21

Boxing is a BULLSHIT business...

But it could be turned into a Beautiful ligitimate sport infact it could become again "THEE" Sport, if...

Governing Bodies "FORCED" True Champions and Contenders to "Proper" showdowns and ELIMINATION bouts where the TRUE Top men HAD to fight each other regularily and Prove their status as Champions and "leading" Contenders.

Promoters would still make big money as would fighters and Boxing as a whole would benifit, especially if it became the RESPECTED Sport it used to be... They would make more money than they could ever imagine and we the PAYING viewing audience would be appeased knowing the Top men are the real deal and up and coming boys and lesser men are Truly getting thier chance!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Aug 2004, 15:25

BubiScholz wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:RJJ would have whupped Dariusz, end of story.
i think DM would have had the same chance Tarver had.......

Tarver got Jones at the right time, back then Jones was still on peak form. His reflexes are gone, Tarver will whack him out again if they meet.

Tarver is much much quicker than DM also, his handspeed looked better than Roy's in the first fight, and he totally sharpshot him in the 2nd, that punch was planned and landed perfectly. DM is slow as shit, and Jones never struggled against Slow guys.

Two years ago, Jones would have been to slick and fast for Tarver, now he's a guy with sloppy technique and deteriorating movement and reflexes.

Lausse · Post by **Lausse** » 09 Aug 2004, 17:17

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:RJJ would have whupped Dariusz, end of story.
i think DM would have had the same chance Tarver had.......
Tarver got Jones at the right time, back then Jones was still on peak form. His reflexes are gone, Tarver will whack him out again if they meet.

Tarver is much much quicker than DM also, his handspeed looked better than Roy's in the first fight, and he totally sharpshot him in the 2nd, that punch was planned and landed perfectly. DM is slow as shit, and Jones never struggled against Slow guys.

Two years ago, Jones would have been to slick and fast for Tarver, now he's a guy with sloppy technique and deteriorating movement and reflexes.

james,Roy Jones did have problems against fighters that pressured him however even in his prime.In the first Griffin fight did you notice that as long as Griffin kept punching RJJ wouldn't be throwing anything back and just took the punches against the ropes,against DM that would have been very dangerous thing to do.As soon as Griffin stopped throwing RJJ would then get off the ropes and fire back with some of his own shots.And in the Harding fight Eric gave him some very uncomfortable moments with his aggressive,pressuring southpaw style and did much better then expected until the bicep injury forced him to call it a night.Fighters who pressured RJJ had success against RJJ even if they were in short bursts,DM however was better then both Griffin and Harding and while not the most agile on his feet he would've pressured him all night long and he did pack a good punch and had a very good jab which would have given Roy problems.He offered Roy 10 000 000$ to fight in Germany Roy said no because of the olympic debacle so DM and Kohl relented and said we'll fight you in the US.They arrive in the US and he demands 70% of the purse even though two of the belts he was wearing he hadn't even fought for in the first place,DM basically won them for RJJ and after having won them they were stripped from him and promptly given to RJJ.So now DM gives RJJ hometown advantage,hometown judging and he has to take only 30% of the purse he is offering Roy even though he wasn't even the real champion,DM was

.DM told Roy to go fornicate himself and rightfully so,i mean seriously would you have accepted RJJ's terms if you were in DM's shoes because i highly doubt it.RJJ did not want this fight so he priced himself out as is his modus operandi against worthy opponents.

Here is a link to an article that i suggest you read:

http://www.maxboxing.com/Kim/kim092602.asp

RJJ was undoubtedly a great fighter,but that does not make him invincible,not even in his prime.

mickeybeard · Post by **mickeybeard** » 09 Aug 2004, 19:16

steve689 wrote:Like Football it's a business, probably 80-20 as Jacko said.

Yup, but at least footy have got some sort of handle on the idea that successful businesses rely on good quality products. You don't see the likes of Aston Villa or other not-quite-topline british teams going off to win 'World titles' because they're not good enough to win the Premiership, or Arsenal and Man Utd being held apart until the FA cup final because "it will mean more".

One governing body and when they say jump, you jump. Everyone plays everyone, and we find out who's the best (or richest

). The rich still have a lot more influence than the poor, but (even when the governing body is a complete shower, lead by people who couldn't run a bath

) it's better than what we have now. Still, I suppose we're stuck with it, but it's always nice to let your imagination run wild every so often. I mean, I'm convinced that Argyle will make a run at the playoffs this season...

Spreadking · Post by **Spreadking** » 09 Aug 2004, 23:27

at 175, it would depend on whether Dariusz would go all out to get to Jones. Roy would run all night, throwing his combo's whenever Dariusz tried to come in. Roy might cut him up and get a stoppage. If Dariusz went all out, he could get inside and do some damage. A fight worth having at the time.

csmith · Post by **csmith** » 10 Aug 2004, 09:31

at amateur level its a sport,the pro game is all business

J · Post by J » 10 Aug 2004, 11:20

I think that headbutting your mantlepeice is purely business not sport, you only do it to attract people to your BBQ's