is ray mercer that hard up???"?

beduff · Post by **beduff** » 09 Aug 2004, 17:10

just watch him in k1 and he is shot to pieces is he that desperate for money he had to embarass himself?

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 09 Aug 2004, 17:14

Seriously, lets not talk about it. K-1 is pathetic, bringing in ancient boxers pitching them in against kickboxers 15 years younger than them and trying to prove a point. Let not give them any publicity.

mickeybeard · Post by **mickeybeard** » 09 Aug 2004, 19:05

I'm pretty sure that fight happened a while back. I seem to remember the whole "I'm going to kick, oh no I'm not" thing from a few months ago, at least. Terrible matchmaking, as LHH said. Lets hope Ray made some decent £.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 10 Aug 2004, 04:21

I'm always a little saddened to see boxers getting kicked like that. It's not what they're trained to handle.

I didn't think Mercer looked that bad though for 43 even if he did virtually give up over the final minute. It's a shame it wasn't the 33yr old version.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 10 Aug 2004, 05:30

It just takes a good pressure fighter to beat the K1 fighters. They cant match us in punching so all they have is kicks really. Someone like Tyson would easily KO any k1 person.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Aug 2004, 05:36

Trouble is, being kicked hard is very painful if you are not used to it. A fighter's shins also aren't conditioned for kickboxing, it's very dangerous, you could get your shin bone snapped in half without the callouses to protect it.

J · Post by J » 10 Aug 2004, 06:51

more importantly if you havent been properly advised on how to kick and which part of the shin / foot (if more karate opposed to Thai) to kick with you are liable to break your leg.
This aside from building up the shin bones etc.
Its not unusual for a non thai boxer to kick a thrained kicboxer in the shin and do more damage to himself. In shoirt boxers should not be competing without the required levels of training and advice. Its a recipe for serious injury simply down to poor technique and lack of required training.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Aug 2004, 07:00

Didn't vince phillips break a leg, or was it an arm?

J · Post by J » 10 Aug 2004, 07:04

arm i think so probs not that applicable in this case, though agian could be down to different technque, Im not sure how the injury arose so cant commment.
Ive seen planty of people smash there legs by incorrect kicking techniqe though, or break feet ankles etc.
Its not something to be taken on without correct training as you rightLy say.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 10 Aug 2004, 07:05

Phillips got his forearm broken from a kick.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 10 Aug 2004, 07:06

presumably, as suggested Philips lack of technique...

Nobody has taught him how to block a kick and he did so like he would block a punch and it broke his arm

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 10 Aug 2004, 07:08

Mercer was blocking kicks pretty well, you could tell he was shocked at how fast they were coming though.

Smit · Post by **Smit** » 10 Aug 2004, 07:29

LOL when Mercer got frustrated and body slammed the poor guy

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 10 Aug 2004, 07:30

The show took place in June.

J · Post by J » 10 Aug 2004, 07:52

Smit wrote:LOL when Mercer got frustrated and body slammed the poor guy

yeah and they gave the guy bout 10 mins to get over it.

sheesh.

Boxingmad · Post by **Boxingmad** » 10 Aug 2004, 08:26

They must be paid well, or they wouldn't bother going to all that trouble.

How much do you reckon they are making?

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 10 Aug 2004, 08:27

Ye leg reach is longer than the arm reach, so I would expect most boxers to struggle getting through against a decent kicker.

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 10 Aug 2004, 08:44

I remember years ago when kickboxing started gaining in popularity in the UK. I remember a few lads coming down to the boxing gym after, saying they couldn't carry on kickboxing cos they'd fucked up their knees/legs etc.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Aug 2004, 08:51

Twinkle Toes wrote:Ye leg reach is longer than the arm reach, so I would expect most boxers to struggle getting through against a decent kicker.

Leg kicks are a lot slower than punches though, as they have further to travel and require long to set up. If a fighter can get inside of the zone, easy to obliterate them with punches. However, Mercer doesn't fit the bill as he is old and slow as shit.

J · Post by J » 10 Aug 2004, 11:13

thats not actually necessarily true in all cases, top notch matial artists (and believe me mishiyoshi or whatever his name is ISN ONT ONE OF THOSE) could balance on one leg and kick you several times before you even pulled a punch back mate.

trust me Ive been in the receiving end.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Aug 2004, 11:21

Yeah, but there's still more set up time. For instance, you have to begin standing on one leg, during which time the boxer is likely to pummel you shitless. Generally speaking, punches are quicker, also a missed punch is a damned sight easier to recover from than a full blooded kick.

I spoke to a guy called Alan Sugar about this a while back, who used to spar with Ali and Bennie Brisco. He said that in street fights boxing was by far the most effective, with kickboxing a fairly close second. He said most other martial artists were spectacularly unsuccessful and normally got shooed in in street fights.

J · Post by J » 10 Aug 2004, 11:22

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yeah, but there's still more set up time. For instance, you have to begin standing on one leg, during which time the boxer is likely to pummel you shitless. Generally speaking, punches are quicker, also a missed punch is a damned sight easier to recover from than a full blooded kick.

I spoke to a guy called Alan Sugar about this a while back, who used to spar with Ali and Bennie Brisco. He said that in street fights boxing was by far the most effective, with kickboxing a fairly close second. He said most other martial artists were spectacularly unsuccessful and normally got shooed in in street fights.

come and have a go if you fink your hard enough

id back my mantlepieice against of ya. done me at the weekend.

yes large lunch in case any of you are wondering

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Aug 2004, 11:25

Oh dear...oh dear....you work too hard. At getting pissed anyway.

J · Post by J » 10 Aug 2004, 11:28

in seriousness I think thats a load of bollox hence the bollox answer, how you can judge anyone in street fight depends on a lot of things cos it isnt controlled.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Aug 2004, 11:37

Oh you'd have to speak to Ron about that, I'm sure he would be only too glad to talk about it, he used to be a doorman as well as a fighter, and he saw countless hundreds of fights. He also did other martial arts himself, and teaches self defence classes, and he reckoned that boxing was the best, because there are very few martial artists who experience anything like a boxing match, which he rightly claimed I think, is the closest thing in terms of aggression to a street fight.

Most martial arts competitions I have seen are more rigid and sylised, and less fluid than a boxing match, and that the AVERAGE competitor would fare better in a street fight, than the AVERAGE martial artist.

I've seen a pretty average skinny little kid who can box give a big lug a right fornicating pasting, I've also seen a middle of the road martial artist get a twatting of a big bloke with no training in any martial art.

The very top level martial artists know choke holds, locks and bone breaking/pressure point techniques of course which could incapacitate a boxer pretty quickly, but not many of them are anywhere near good enough to pull those moves in a street situation where there is not always room or the right conditions to pull those moves.

At the end of the day, a punch once taught correctly, is easy to remember and intuitive, a crescent or shin kick is not.