the demise of Oscar Bonavena.

[Goodnight, Irene]

First, Collins takes orders from me, in your previous post. Now, I take orders from Collins, in your latest one. Norton is beating Ali in a near shut-out in their second fight, & you're running around under two names.

Such a confused individual. Are you sitting there with your underwear on your head & your socks on your hands as you write, Davey? :)

[John Galt]

Such a confused individual. Are you sitting there with your underwear on your head & your socks on your hands as you write, Davey? :)[/quote]

Is that your fantasy Irene? Give it up, you and collie need to get over this obsession with me.I am just another person in a long line of people you have met in life who thinks you are insignificant. Sorry. LOL.

[warnambool]

You know, I`m almost sorry I started this thread. I was looking forward to being part of a well run and informative {which it is} site .
But after looking at some other threads, there seems to be a sledging war on.
Not that it worries me, being a hardy survivor of 2 beer brewing forums where newbies are usually mugged around their 3rd. post
Carry on.

[warnambool]

Rivetting. :(

[Brute]

Oscar was sexually involved with Sally Conforte, wife of Joe Conforte, owner of the legal bordello in Nevada.

Apparently, Oscar was hoping for Sally to divorce Conforte and keep the house, which Oscar would run. At the time he was killed, Bonavena was armed with a revolver that he carried in an ankle holster.

Oscar was a great, tough fighter, but as a human being he was known for being a troubled, nit picking. manipulative bully.

Joe Conforte? He would not have been "connected", would he?

[warnambool]

Might be D
I saw today there`s a movie coming up on it {might have already, didn`t notice how old the info was}.
Helen Mirren to play Sally, Joe Pesci to play Joe Conforte.
Didn`t say who is playing the Big Unit tho.

[harrygreb]

ali did look pretty awful against ringo. although i remember at the time ali gave loads of credit to bonavena who became a favourite of mine for a few months. i recall watching the fight with my mum, we both cheered ringo on

[Ambling Alp]

The score cards lie, imo. I'd given Bonavena at least 7 rounds with the majority of the remaining 7 rounds it went being even.

Had it went the distance, it wouldn't have mattered, it was predetermined from the start that Ali would get Frazier, not Bonavena a third time.

Thanks for another unbiased opinion.

[Goodnight, Irene]

He's probably right about that, though. Remember De La Hoya-Sturm? No force, on Earth nor Heaven, was going to prevent a Hopkins-De La Hoya mega-showdown.

Probably the same deal in '71, but since even a rusty Ali had too much class for Bonavena, it wasn't an issue. Still, Henry's probably got it nailed.

[Ambling Alp]

You can speculate that Ali would have got the decision had it been a close fight. However, that is all that you are really doing; speculating. It's a moot point since the fight didn't go the distance anyway.

What I was really commenting on was his comment that Bonavena won 7 rounds and that the rest were even. He had Bonavena ahead by 7 going into the last round! He didn't give Ali one of the 14 rounds! That may be the most ridiculaus scoring I have ever seen. (John Galt/DaveV 17 gave Ali 1 round in the 2nd Ali-Norton fight and Homocide Henry also had Foreman pitching a shutout agianst Ali. This even tops that.)
There is no way that Ali was behind in that fight, much less down by 7. He won atleast 9 rounds.

[Goodnight, Irene]

So we can't even speculate on the point, because it's conjecture? That's a little touchy in defense of Ali, isn't it? It's not even a criticism of him, really --- rather, the sport & its nature. It's not Ali's fault he probably couldn't lose the fight with Bonavena on the cards, but why so offended at the mere mention of it?

Anyway, Ali was winning handsomely, in the context of the cards as I saw it, if not pretty. Henry? C'mon, chap

[SteveO]

You can speculate that Ali would have got the decision had it been a close fight. However, that is all that you are really doing; speculating. It's a moot point since the fight didn't go the distance anyway. There is no way that Ali was behind in that fight, much less down by 7. He won atleast 9 rounds.

As I mentioned earlier, after the 14 completed rounds the official scorecards read: 12-2-0, 10-3-1 and 8-5-1 all in favour of Ali. So there was no way he could have lost on points - Bonavena needed the K.O.

[Ambling Alp]

Steve O-Homocide was saying that Bonavena should have been well ahead on the cards, which as Goodnight and myself find ridiculaus.

Goodnightt-Am I being overly touchy? You know that Ali gets 10X the criticism on this Forum than anyone else. Now it's to the point where we have to make up scenarios that didn't happen and say that Ali was favored?
Why would we speculate if he still would have got the decision against Bonavena if Bonavena should have got it? Do you do that with anyone else?
Do we say, well if Graziano would have deserved the decision against Sugar Ray Robinson if it went the distance that Robinson would have got the decision?
No, of course we don't. Robinson knocked Graziano out and that's that.

[SteveO]

I also think Ali should be given some credit for being the only man ever to K.O Bonavena. Although he was still 'ring rusty' he did what Ron Lyle, Floyd Patterson, Joe Frazier (on two occasions) and other big punchers failed to do.

[Rick Farris]

Well, technically not in a whore house.

On May 22, 1976, Oscar was killed outside the "Mustang Ranch," a famous brothel near Reno, Nevada. Willard R. Brymer, a bodyguard at the ranch, was convicted of voluntary manslaughter and served 15 months in prison. Bonavena was shot once in the chest by a bullet from a high-powered hunting rifle. Authoriities believed he died instantly. His body was discovered at a gate outside the ranch.

If I recall correctly, Bonavena was involved with a whore at the ranch, who happened to be Brymer's main squeeze.

The woman he was involved with was the wife of Mustang Ranch owner, Joe Conforte.
Last I heard of Conforte, he was living in Costa Rica.
The former heavyweight was the "boy toy" of the older woman.
This is what I read in a magazine, I assumed it was correct. If not?


-Rick Farris

[twotontony]

After 14 rounds the official scorecards read: 12-2-0, 10-3-1 and 8-5-1 all in favour of Ali.

- Cards just a joke to set up the big money Frazier match.

Ali sure didn't think he was ahead which is why he went buck crazy the 15th with every fiber of his soul going for a big round or KO. He also violated the neutral corner rule as he did throughout his career without penalty and poor Oscar the poor ring general, never attempted to take a full count, instead leaping up and into leaping Ali left hooks.

Ali was completely spent at end of the fight as he himself admitted to. Oscar gave him a major mauling.

There was so much crookedness involved with Clay/Ali that is is unbelievable, but Hollywood glorifies him.

[twotontony]

Well, technically not in a whore house.

On May 22, 1976, Oscar was killed outside the "Mustang Ranch," a famous brothel near Reno, Nevada. Willard R. Brymer, a bodyguard at the ranch, was convicted of voluntary manslaughter and served 15 months in prison. Bonavena was shot once in the chest by a bullet from a high-powered hunting rifle. Authoriities believed he died instantly. His body was discovered at a gate outside the ranch.

If I recall correctly, Bonavena was involved with a whore at the ranch, who happened to be Brymer's main squeeze.

They've got a website now

http://worldfamousbrothel.com/

and a special page for the late Mr Bonavena:

http://mustangranch.org/forum/forumdisp ... be4e1&f=14

[klompton]

You can speculate that Ali would have got the decision had it been a close fight. However, that is all that you are really doing; speculating. It's a moot point since the fight didn't go the distance anyway. There is no way that Ali was behind in that fight, much less down by 7. He won atleast 9 rounds.

As I mentioned earlier, after the 14 completed rounds the official scorecards read: 12-2-0, 10-3-1 and 8-5-1 all in favour of Ali. So there was no way he could have lost on points - Bonavena needed the K.O.

I agree that its incredibly impressive that Ali KOd Bonavena. BUT, and this is a big BUT, those scores are soooo out of line with the actual fight. Bonavena was giving Ali hell in that fight and it was fairly even if not a little bit in favor of Bonavena IMO. Thats one of my favorite fights and really shows how special Ali was to be able to comeback and take on a guy of Bonavena's calibre in his first and knock him out.

[warnambool]

Well, technically not in a whore house.

On May 22, 1976, Oscar was killed outside the "Mustang Ranch," a famous brothel near Reno, Nevada. Willard R. Brymer, a bodyguard at the ranch, was convicted of voluntary manslaughter and served 15 months in prison. Bonavena was shot once in the chest by a bullet from a high-powered hunting rifle. Authoriities believed he died instantly. His body was discovered at a gate outside the ranch.

If I recall correctly, Bonavena was involved with a whore at the ranch, who happened to be Brymer's main squeeze.

They've got a website now

http://worldfamousbrothel.com/

and a special page for the late Mr Bonavena:

http://mustangranch.org/forum/forumdisp ... be4e1&f=14

Thanks for that,really interesting.Surprised me in that Sally Forte was old enough to be Oscars mother! {she was 59 to his 33}.
Makes you wonder.

[twotontony]

Unfortunately some of the Bonavena videos there are no longer available.

You mean Sally Conforte.

"was convicted of voluntary manslaughter and served 15 months in prison"

Just 15 months? Well, those joints don't pay off the politicians for nothing.