Pound 4 Pound - Explanation please

Foggy · Post by **Foggy** » 19 Aug 2004, 05:06

Could someone give me an explanation of what is meant by pound 4 pound, i have my own views but i'm not to sure if i'm right or not, thanks fella's.

bigynzing · Post by **bigynzing** » 19 Aug 2004, 05:09

Best boxer regardlus of weight..ie.Floyd Mayweather

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 19 Aug 2004, 05:46

i look at it as "if everyone was the same time, who would win"

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Aug 2004, 05:53

Sort of meangingless, but I would say it equates to 'who is the most skilled fighter out there.' or 'who has achieved the most to date?'

That is why heavyweights almost never get in.

Bernard Hopkins is the top dog for me.
Mayweather a close second.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 19 Aug 2004, 06:01

why no heavyweight?

i go for Vitali Klitschko

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 19 Aug 2004, 06:04

BubiScholz wrote:why no heavyweight?

i go for Vitali Klitschko

Klitchkos main advantage is that he is so much bigger and stronger than anyone else, certainly not more skilled....

P4P best heavy must be Byrd???? as he seldom enters the ring at over 200lbs......

J · Post by J » 19 Aug 2004, 06:07

BubiScholz wrote:why no heavyweight?

i go for Vitali Klitschko

Are you seriously suggesting Vitali K is a better boxer than Nard, Mayweather, Morales, Kostya, Marquez, Pacman, Barrerra, et al more skilled and P4P better.

Laughable.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 19 Aug 2004, 06:16

i went for Vitali to wake you guys up, haha

but regarding skill and technique in heavy i don´t see Byrd as the best. till last week for me it was Gomez. but now? ah, Luan Krasniqi, the coming man.

tho only guy who really impresses me in the lighter divisions is the pacman. yeah, all together he could be no. 1.

regarding the last performances i think Felix Sturm did a better job than Hopkins. but we will see if he knocks de la Tortilla-Kournikova out.

J · Post by J » 19 Aug 2004, 06:20

BubiScholz wrote:i went for Vitali to wake you guys up, haha but regarding skill and technique in heavy i don´t see Byrd as the best. till last week for me it was Gomez. but now? ah, Luan Krasniqi, the coming man.

tho only guy who really impresses me in the lighter divisions is the pacman. yeah, all together he could be no. 1.

regarding the last performances i think Felix Sturm did a better job than Hopkins. but we will see if he knocks de la Tortilla-Kournikova out.

fornicate you donyt half talk some utter shit. Felix sturm is better than a man who has made nearly 20 defences of a title is universally recognised as the best middleweight since Marvin Hagler.

Eric morales doesnt impress you? Floyd Mayweather doesnt impress you?
Barerra, Marquez, Winky Wright, all these future hall of famers?

then Im afraid you are no boxing fan. More someone who just supports fighters with a connection with germany.

Shame I had you down as a boxing fan, obviuously Im wrong.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 19 Aug 2004, 06:34

stop, J, i only talked of the last fights in Vegas. keep calm.

regarding Hopkins career he is one of the best in this division of all times.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 19 Aug 2004, 06:36

stop, J, i only talked of the last fights in Vegas. keep calm.

regarding Hopkins career he is one of the best in this division of all times.

keep cool, mate, i would never say Sturm is the better boxer. maybe Sturm could be one who follows his foot steps. he was great vs my friend from east LA.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Aug 2004, 06:38

Yes, let's see, Felix Sturm has given DeLaHoya, who has never fought at middleweight before, is arguably past his peak, and was clearly out of shape, and this makes him better than Hopkins who is a top 5 middleweight all time. Let's see how Sturm does against some genuine top 10 middleweights first shall we, not blown up lightweights who haven't trained properly.

Bubi, why can you not see beyond your racial bias, it's ridiculous. It would be like me saying that Eastman is better than Hopkins because he dropped William Joppy!

You consistently rate fighters from germany ahead of others who have achieved way more....are you really a boxing fan?

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 19 Aug 2004, 06:51

i just wanted to say that Sturm made a great performance. not more. i don´t rate him over Hopkins. the guys in fightnews rank him #3 e.g.. he is one of the greatest talents in middle we´ll see.

i also like boxers who are not from germany, but i sometimes name them because nobody does it.

BTW i like Ricky Hatton and hope he will fight for a real title soon. i like him more han Urkal, who is german based. i don´t hate british boxers.

J · Post by J » 19 Aug 2004, 06:53

its not that you hate british fighters Bubi more the incessant praising of most german related boxers. While understandng you need to support your own I feel you take it a little too far. You know how the overhyping of Harrison pisses you off, well its getting to those proportions with your view on Krasniqi and Sam.

Also I am calm Bubi, I just cant believe you have dismissed the lower weights which are fabulous at the moment, the like of morales, pacquio, corralles, marquez, Winky, mayweather, gatti et al are FANTASTIC FIGHTERS.

If you cant see that then you need your eyes testing mate.

Im pretty bored of hearing bout how much better the likes of Sam, Krasniqi, sturm, anyone who who fights out of germany, are so much better than other more accomplished fighters and you can stick williams down in that too, he has just acheived more than Krasniq and Sam put together. Beaten a marquee name in a fight he wasnt supposed to have a hope in hell.

yes I agree sturm did get robbed agianst de la hoya, and while not condoning it, to rate sturm in the same breath as Hopkins on that one performance is ludicrous.

maverick · Post by **maverick** » 19 Aug 2004, 07:23

Yes, let's see, Felix Sturm has given DeLaHoya, who has never fought at middleweight before, is arguably past his peak, and was clearly out of shape, and this makes him better than Hopkins who is a top 5 middleweight all time. Let's see how Sturm does against some genuine top 10 middleweights first shall we, not blown up lightweights who haven't trained properly.

Correction tho it aint a racial bias as such, it's nationalistic; it's minor but stil an err.

Hopkins is the dogs bollocks, 20 defences, man that will be a great accomplishment & that munchkin barry mcguigan had the cheek to say Hopkins wasn't worthy to tie shoelaces. Mayweather is formidable, Morales, Pacman outstanding.

Bubi, u left ur white stick on the boat.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 19 Aug 2004, 08:23

oh yeah, real experts don´t pretend that someone who has beaten a big name being 15 years over his peak and 38 years old is more worth than holding one of the belts in heavy with the most tradition (and THE belt in europe). and this only because he is british. haha. next time you say that the commonwealth title is more worth than the WBC title because it is a (former) universum fighter, who holds it.

BTW i forot to say that Sven Ottke is the best p4p-boxer of all timme followed by Henry Maske and Rene Weller.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 19 Aug 2004, 08:32

maverick wrote:
Yes, let's see, Felix Sturm has given DeLaHoya, who has never fought at middleweight before, is arguably past his peak, and was clearly out of shape, and this makes him better than Hopkins who is a top 5 middleweight all time. Let's see how Sturm does against some genuine top 10 middleweights first shall we, not blown up lightweights who haven't trained properly.
Correction tho it aint a racial bias as such, it's nationalistic; it's minor but stil an err.

Hopkins is the dogs bollocks, 20 defences, man that will be a great accomplishment & that munchkin barry mcguigan had the cheek to say Hopkins wasn't worthy to tie shoelaces. Mayweather is formidable, Morales, Pacman outstanding.

Bubi, u left ur white stick on the boat.

i just compared the last fights in Vegas, where Hopkins was not outstanding. that´s all. end of this discussion.

i never said that Mayweather, Spinks, Mayorga, Pacman morales, Hatton etc. are shit fighters.

bigynzing · Post by **bigynzing** » 19 Aug 2004, 10:52

Woah...what happend here?????...it went rapidly from friendly banter to.............whatever the hell that was all about.

Oh yeah...JoeC could of beaten Mario Viet and Sven"turkey"Ottke on the same night...Rule Britania, baby.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Aug 2004, 11:04

BubiScholz wrote:oh yeah, real experts don´t pretend that someone who has beaten a big name being 15 years over his peak and 38 years old is more worth than holding one of the belts in heavy with the most tradition (and THE belt in europe). and this only because he is british. haha. next time you say that the commonwealth title is more worth than the WBC title because it is a (former) universum fighter, who holds it.

BTW i forot to say that Sven Ottke is the best p4p-boxer of all timme followed by Henry Maske and Rene Weller.

European belts aren't quite what they were Bubi, most fighters get them on their way down rather than their way up these days. Sad but true.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 19 Aug 2004, 11:20

bigynzing wrote:Woah...what happend here?????...it went rapidly from friendly banter to.............whatever the hell that was all about.

Oh yeah...JoeC could of beaten Mario Viet and Sven"turkey"Ottke on the same night...Rule Britania, baby.

sorry, i have to disappoint you, the Ottke-thing was a joke and i do not dislike Britain, Brits, or british boxer. but they alqays stick this together, because a german guy MUST be a racist.

but it´s funny anyway. brits call me racist because i just say that a turkish guy is better than an british guy. if you tell this any german or turk they will laugh to death.

i love this forum

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 19 Aug 2004, 11:29

Yaaawwwn P4P debate god it's tedious I just wish it would go away for good. What a waste of time.

At most I'll compare fighters in consecutive divisions (like Winky and Hopkins), but I'm not going to fart around trying to argue why Erik Morales might be better than Antonio Tarver. The light-heavy champ would murder him, end of story. If they were the same size? Well they aren't so it wouldn't be real!

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 19 Aug 2004, 11:29

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:oh yeah, real experts don´t pretend that someone who has beaten a big name being 15 years over his peak and 38 years old is more worth than holding one of the belts in heavy with the most tradition (and THE belt in europe). and this only because he is british. haha. next time you say that the commonwealth title is more worth than the WBC title because it is a (former) universum fighter, who holds it.

BTW i forot to say that Sven Ottke is the best p4p-boxer of all timme followed by Henry Maske and Rene Weller.
European belts aren't quite what they were Bubi, most fighters get them on their way down rather than their way up these days. Sad but true.

not in heavy. this belt has more tradition than all others, must also be IMO the oldest professional belt in the world. maybe our best expert, bennie, knows more about this.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 19 Aug 2004, 11:49

Kilburn wrote:Yaaawwwn P4P debate god it's tedious I just wish it would go away for good. What a waste of time.

At most I'll compare fighters in consecutive divisions (like Winky and Hopkins), but I'm not going to fart around trying to argue why Erik Morales might be better than Antonio Tarver. The light-heavy champ would murder him, end of story. If they were the same size? Well they aren't so it wouldn't be real!

IMO the indisputed heavy champ is the best boxer of the world. all other things are speculation. would pacman beat Klitschko if he would be 2 meters tall and 110 kilos heavy? speculation. speculation and things like "who makes better ko´s?" or other shit is for guys who like synchronised jumping or ice skating because it is only sublective.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Aug 2004, 11:58

Best fighter, yes, best boxer, no.

For instance, a good fighter could beat a great boxer, boxer refers to skill levels, fighter means good at winning and being competitive in fights.

I take your point though, all things being equal the heavyweight champ of the world should kick the shit out of anyone in the lighter weight divisions.

Having said this, the little guys tend to be more skilful whereas the heavyweights tend to be, well, heavy. Lennox Lewis, whilst a great heavyweight champ for my money, was never anywhere near the most skilfull fighter around, and he had better skills than most heavyweights.

Harry Greb gave Tunney a mauling even though he was much smaller, and Robert Fitzsimmons won the heavyweight championship against James Corbett, who outweighed him by nearly 20 lbs.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 19 Aug 2004, 15:05

How I rank my P4P is on achievement primarily (titles and significant victories). For the British P4P at the top of the page it is Achievement and standing on a world level. Thats why I tend to rank maybe over the hill fighters over the potential (i.e. David Haye not being ranked, against some peoples opinion).

A European title should mean an automatic top ten spot, and I really consider that strongly in the British P4P rankings - thats why I had all the European champions well inside the top twenty.