I will wait for some replies first, and post my own opinion later.
Obviously the two fights he lost could be popular choices.
And another question, what was Lewis's best performance? again, I will wait for replies and then post my own opinion.
What was the worst performance of Lennox Lewis's career?
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jezzamundo
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3127
- Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 13:11
WORST PERFORMANCE UNDOUBTEDLY RAHMAN 1.
the mcall fight at least he trained for and just got caught by a peach, the Rahman fight he was very unprofessional, he was more interested in playing movie stars than training, not only was he out of shape, he was arrogant and conceited in the extreme by not even giving himself enough time to acclimitise to the altitude.
It was a dreadful perfromance. And Im his biggest fan.
I remember sitting there in disbelief when he got KO'd, I couldnt get my head round it.
His best performance, he was pretty awesome in the rematch with Rahman and the beating he took out on Tyson was pretty fierce and calculated.
He gave tua a boxing lesson which was impressive if a little boring to watch, his best finish was Botha, theree lightening strikes all on the money, and so fast, simply put awesome.
the mcall fight at least he trained for and just got caught by a peach, the Rahman fight he was very unprofessional, he was more interested in playing movie stars than training, not only was he out of shape, he was arrogant and conceited in the extreme by not even giving himself enough time to acclimitise to the altitude.
It was a dreadful perfromance. And Im his biggest fan.
I remember sitting there in disbelief when he got KO'd, I couldnt get my head round it.
His best performance, he was pretty awesome in the rematch with Rahman and the beating he took out on Tyson was pretty fierce and calculated.
He gave tua a boxing lesson which was impressive if a little boring to watch, his best finish was Botha, theree lightening strikes all on the money, and so fast, simply put awesome.
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Slapsie Maxie
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 794
- Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 08:22
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harley_man
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 92
- Joined: 04 May 2004, 10:24
Yeah, I'm on board with that. Also a huge Lewis fan, I often shook my head when Lewis seemingly got cocky and started throwing from his waistband. He needed a wake up call and Rahman gave it to him. Overall it was a pretty unprofessional performance so, given the stage of his career at which it happened, I'd call that a worse performance than some of his earlier and more awkward snoozers.J wrote:WORST PERFORMANCE UNDOUBTEDLY RAHMAN 1.
the mcall fight at least he trained for and just got caught by a peach, the Rahman fight he was very unprofessional, he was more interested in playing movie stars than training, not only was he out of shape, he was arrogant and conceited in the extreme by not even giving himself enough time to acclimitise to the altitude.
It was a dreadful perfromance. And Im his biggest fan.
I remember sitting there in disbelief when he got KO'd, I couldnt get my head round it.
His best performance, he was pretty awesome in the rematch with Rahman and the beating he took out on Tyson was pretty fierce and calculated.
He gave tua a boxing lesson which was impressive if a little boring to watch, his best finish was Botha, theree lightening strikes all on the money, and so fast, simply put awesome.
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jezzamundo
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3127
- Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 13:11
Hmm, much more educated responses than I was expecting.
I believe Lewis gave some pretty ordinary performances early in his career, particularly when he failed to control with his jab and his defense was not as solid as it was to later become.
Not to take anything away from Ray Mercer, but I believe Lewis was well below par against him. His didn't make use of his reach advantage, and took many more punches than he should have. Mercer may have given an excellent performance, but Lewis was as disappointing as Mercer was good. Even as a Lewis fan, I only score the fight 98-97 to Lewis.
As mentioned before, the first McCall fight was too short to really judge, but to be honest I think it was only a matter of time before Lewis was KO'd the way he was fighting at this point in time: excellent attack, but leaky defense.
Watching both Holyfield fights, I believe Lewis underperformed in both. While I score the first fight 118-114 to Lewis, and the second 117-114 to Lewis (I can't understand people who question the verdict of the second fight), I still find him disappointing in the later rounds.
But the fight that understandably pisses me off the most is the first against Rahman. Lewis was truly in his prime, but he came in underprepared and overconfident, and got what he deserved. Even so, if that one punch had not landed, I believe Lewis would have gone on to stop Rahman by cuts, or outpoint him. His skills were better in this fight than in many before, but he just didn't make proper use of them.
Lewis was clearly past his best against Klitschko, although he still managed to beat him. If there had been no cuts, then the fight could have gone either way, although watching the fight I would give the edge to a Lewis KO or TKO in about the 8th or 9th. Still this rates as one of the poorer performances of his later career, despite defeating a fitter, younger, taller and mostly impressive opponent.
AS FOR THE BEST...
Best early performance was definitely the win over Ruddock, which was close to flawless, and very impressive.
The Golota KO was also impressive, but frankly a little too short to determine exactly how good Lewis was at this point in time (I believe Lewis was clearly the worlds best heavy from 1997-2002).
The Grant and Botha wins were also excellent, both taking place in Lewis' prime. However neither opponent was particulary impressive, and Lewis wore more punches against Grant than he should have.
The Tua victory was also close to perfection, and although a KO would have been nice, I cannot fault Lewis in this fight. But again, Tua was near to useless against Lewis, and this fight did nothing for the Lewis reputation.
The KO of Tyson was also a very good performance, again against a very ordinary opponent, although Tyson was competitive for the first few rounds.
In my mind, the best I have ever seen Lewis is in the second Rahman fight. He was excellent in both defense and attack, and made excellent use of his jab, against an opponent who he only had a small reach advantage over.
I believe Lewis gave some pretty ordinary performances early in his career, particularly when he failed to control with his jab and his defense was not as solid as it was to later become.
Not to take anything away from Ray Mercer, but I believe Lewis was well below par against him. His didn't make use of his reach advantage, and took many more punches than he should have. Mercer may have given an excellent performance, but Lewis was as disappointing as Mercer was good. Even as a Lewis fan, I only score the fight 98-97 to Lewis.
As mentioned before, the first McCall fight was too short to really judge, but to be honest I think it was only a matter of time before Lewis was KO'd the way he was fighting at this point in time: excellent attack, but leaky defense.
Watching both Holyfield fights, I believe Lewis underperformed in both. While I score the first fight 118-114 to Lewis, and the second 117-114 to Lewis (I can't understand people who question the verdict of the second fight), I still find him disappointing in the later rounds.
But the fight that understandably pisses me off the most is the first against Rahman. Lewis was truly in his prime, but he came in underprepared and overconfident, and got what he deserved. Even so, if that one punch had not landed, I believe Lewis would have gone on to stop Rahman by cuts, or outpoint him. His skills were better in this fight than in many before, but he just didn't make proper use of them.
Lewis was clearly past his best against Klitschko, although he still managed to beat him. If there had been no cuts, then the fight could have gone either way, although watching the fight I would give the edge to a Lewis KO or TKO in about the 8th or 9th. Still this rates as one of the poorer performances of his later career, despite defeating a fitter, younger, taller and mostly impressive opponent.
AS FOR THE BEST...
Best early performance was definitely the win over Ruddock, which was close to flawless, and very impressive.
The Golota KO was also impressive, but frankly a little too short to determine exactly how good Lewis was at this point in time (I believe Lewis was clearly the worlds best heavy from 1997-2002).
The Grant and Botha wins were also excellent, both taking place in Lewis' prime. However neither opponent was particulary impressive, and Lewis wore more punches against Grant than he should have.
The Tua victory was also close to perfection, and although a KO would have been nice, I cannot fault Lewis in this fight. But again, Tua was near to useless against Lewis, and this fight did nothing for the Lewis reputation.
The KO of Tyson was also a very good performance, again against a very ordinary opponent, although Tyson was competitive for the first few rounds.
In my mind, the best I have ever seen Lewis is in the second Rahman fight. He was excellent in both defense and attack, and made excellent use of his jab, against an opponent who he only had a small reach advantage over.
To be honest, Lennox didn't look that great in to many fights.
Until he knocked out Frank Bruno he looked like crap. The Ray Mercer fight was not a good show for him, nor was his first fight with Rahman. I just don't think he looked very motivated in most of those fights.
When he was motivated was against Tyson. Now that was the kind of Lewis I expected to see. The only other fighter I think he would have looked great against is Riddick Bowe only because they hate each other. I think if Bowe comes back and is succesful, perhaps Lennox will unretire just to kick his butt.
Until he knocked out Frank Bruno he looked like crap. The Ray Mercer fight was not a good show for him, nor was his first fight with Rahman. I just don't think he looked very motivated in most of those fights.
When he was motivated was against Tyson. Now that was the kind of Lewis I expected to see. The only other fighter I think he would have looked great against is Riddick Bowe only because they hate each other. I think if Bowe comes back and is succesful, perhaps Lennox will unretire just to kick his butt.
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glittermonkey
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 2658
- Joined: 28 Feb 2004, 18:03
Aside from the fights mentioned, i'd pick out the matches against Briggs and Akinwande as two poor performances.
The awful Akinwande fight wasn't entirely the fault of Lewis, but he did his fair share of holding and had no idea how to deal with someone who was totally reliant on spoiling tactics. There was hardly a meaningful punch landed, and as a result it was dreadful to watch.
As for the match with Briggs, Lewis looked under-prepared and under-motivated. His defence was poor to say the least, and for the first few rounds he missed with more shots than in probably any other fight during the later part of his career. He was hurt more than once, and IMO, almost out at one stage. In addition to this he looked like he'd run out of gas as early as the third round. It all made for good viewing, but it was a dismal showing considering in his previous fight he'd battered Golota.
The awful Akinwande fight wasn't entirely the fault of Lewis, but he did his fair share of holding and had no idea how to deal with someone who was totally reliant on spoiling tactics. There was hardly a meaningful punch landed, and as a result it was dreadful to watch.
As for the match with Briggs, Lewis looked under-prepared and under-motivated. His defence was poor to say the least, and for the first few rounds he missed with more shots than in probably any other fight during the later part of his career. He was hurt more than once, and IMO, almost out at one stage. In addition to this he looked like he'd run out of gas as early as the third round. It all made for good viewing, but it was a dismal showing considering in his previous fight he'd battered Golota.
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dempseyfire
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5534
- Joined: 29 Oct 2003, 22:56
I hate this 'under-motivated' Lewis excuse . . . .number one a HW champion shouldn't be having 'motivation' problems but Lewis looked not great in many fights-Billups, Tucker, Bruno, Mercer, McCall (both of them), Briggs, Mavoric, Holyfield 11 etc. What he just not motivated for any of these fights??? Come on, the reason he looked impressive against the likes of Botha, fat Tua, Tyson, and Rahman is those guys were B and C level guys at best, and I think both fighters in Tyson-Lewis didn't look too good-how is standing away and potshotting a flat-footed, one punch at a time Tyson impressive??? Williams does the work in half the time vs a Tyson throwing combinations and everyone says Tyson is completly shot . . . . Never understood that one.glittermonkey wrote:Aside from the fights mentioned, i'd pick out the matches against Briggs and Akinwande as two poor performances.
The awful Akinwande fight wasn't entirely the fault of Lewis, but he did his fair share of holding and had no idea how to deal with someone who was totally reliant on spoiling tactics. There was hardly a meaningful punch landed, and as a result it was dreadful to watch.
As for the match with Briggs, Lewis looked under-prepared and under-motivated. His defence was poor to say the least, and for the first few rounds he missed with more shots than in probably any other fight during the later part of his career. He was hurt more than once, and IMO, almost out at one stage. In addition to this he looked like he'd run out of gas as early as the third round. It all made for good viewing, but it was a dismal showing considering in his previous fight he'd battered Golota.
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glittermonkey
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 2658
- Joined: 28 Feb 2004, 18:03
Slow down. I'm not making excuses for the guy, i just think that, comparing this fight with others during his career, he looked like he didn't really want to be there from the early stages of the fight onwards. I agree totally that a world champion should be motivated for every fight, but in this particular case i don't think that Lewis was.dempseyfire wrote:I hate this 'under-motivated' Lewis excuse . . . .number one a HW champion shouldn't be having 'motivation' problems but Lewis looked not great in many fights-Billups, Tucker, Bruno, Mercer, McCall (both of them), Briggs, Mavoric, Holyfield 11 etc. What he just not motivated for any of these fights??? Come on, the reason he looked impressive against the likes of Botha, fat Tua, Tyson, and Rahman is those guys were B and C level guys at best, and I think both fighters in Tyson-Lewis didn't look too good-how is standing away and potshotting a flat-footed, one punch at a time Tyson impressive??? Williams does the work in half the time vs a Tyson throwing combinations and everyone says Tyson is completly shot . . . . Never understood that one.glittermonkey wrote:Aside from the fights mentioned, i'd pick out the matches against Briggs and Akinwande as two poor performances.
The awful Akinwande fight wasn't entirely the fault of Lewis, but he did his fair share of holding and had no idea how to deal with someone who was totally reliant on spoiling tactics. There was hardly a meaningful punch landed, and as a result it was dreadful to watch.
As for the match with Briggs, Lewis looked under-prepared and under-motivated. His defence was poor to say the least, and for the first few rounds he missed with more shots than in probably any other fight during the later part of his career. He was hurt more than once, and IMO, almost out at one stage. In addition to this he looked like he'd run out of gas as early as the third round. It all made for good viewing, but it was a dismal showing considering in his previous fight he'd battered Golota.
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dempseyfire
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5534
- Joined: 29 Oct 2003, 22:56
Sorry, didn't mean that to be a personal attack.glittermonkey wrote:Slow down. I'm not making excuses for the guy, i just think that, comparing this fight with others during his career, he looked like he didn't really want to be there from the early stages of the fight onwards. I agree totally that a world champion should be motivated for every fight, but in this particular case i don't think that Lewis was.dempseyfire wrote:I hate this 'under-motivated' Lewis excuse . . . .number one a HW champion shouldn't be having 'motivation' problems but Lewis looked not great in many fights-Billups, Tucker, Bruno, Mercer, McCall (both of them), Briggs, Mavoric, Holyfield 11 etc. What he just not motivated for any of these fights??? Come on, the reason he looked impressive against the likes of Botha, fat Tua, Tyson, and Rahman is those guys were B and C level guys at best, and I think both fighters in Tyson-Lewis didn't look too good-how is standing away and potshotting a flat-footed, one punch at a time Tyson impressive??? Williams does the work in half the time vs a Tyson throwing combinations and everyone says Tyson is completly shot . . . . Never understood that one.glittermonkey wrote:Aside from the fights mentioned, i'd pick out the matches against Briggs and Akinwande as two poor performances.
The awful Akinwande fight wasn't entirely the fault of Lewis, but he did his fair share of holding and had no idea how to deal with someone who was totally reliant on spoiling tactics. There was hardly a meaningful punch landed, and as a result it was dreadful to watch.
As for the match with Briggs, Lewis looked under-prepared and under-motivated. His defence was poor to say the least, and for the first few rounds he missed with more shots than in probably any other fight during the later part of his career. He was hurt more than once, and IMO, almost out at one stage. In addition to this he looked like he'd run out of gas as early as the third round. It all made for good viewing, but it was a dismal showing considering in his previous fight he'd battered Golota.
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glittermonkey
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 2658
- Joined: 28 Feb 2004, 18:03
Don't worry about it. I wasn't really offended. I agree for the most part, the under-motivation excuse is over used with regards to Lewis, however i also believe that on one or two occasions in his career it happened to be true.dempseyfire wrote:Sorry, didn't mean that to be a personal attack.glittermonkey wrote:Slow down. I'm not making excuses for the guy, i just think that, comparing this fight with others during his career, he looked like he didn't really want to be there from the early stages of the fight onwards. I agree totally that a world champion should be motivated for every fight, but in this particular case i don't think that Lewis was.dempseyfire wrote: I hate this 'under-motivated' Lewis excuse . . . .number one a HW champion shouldn't be having 'motivation' problems but Lewis looked not great in many fights-Billups, Tucker, Bruno, Mercer, McCall (both of them), Briggs, Mavoric, Holyfield 11 etc. What he just not motivated for any of these fights??? Come on, the reason he looked impressive against the likes of Botha, fat Tua, Tyson, and Rahman is those guys were B and C level guys at best, and I think both fighters in Tyson-Lewis didn't look too good-how is standing away and potshotting a flat-footed, one punch at a time Tyson impressive??? Williams does the work in half the time vs a Tyson throwing combinations and everyone says Tyson is completly shot . . . . Never understood that one.
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jezzamundo
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3127
- Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 13:11
"Williams does the work in half the time vs a Tyson throwing combinations and everyone says Tyson is completly shot . . . . Never understood that one."
Basically Tyson has one excuse for this fight: his knee. If that excuse is correct, then maybe he isn't shot, but if it isn't, then he is well and truly done. Having watched both fights, I believe that Tyson was in better shape vs Lewis than he was vs Williams. He could not get combinations off against Lewis because he was fighting a far superior fighter with much better defense than Williams.
Still, he was clearly well below his best in both fights.
I'd almost forgotten about the Briggs fight! Lewis was pretty poor in that one as well, another one of his worse performances. As for the undermotivated excuse, I think the word overconfident would be more accurate, but neither is a worthy excuse anyway.
Basically Tyson has one excuse for this fight: his knee. If that excuse is correct, then maybe he isn't shot, but if it isn't, then he is well and truly done. Having watched both fights, I believe that Tyson was in better shape vs Lewis than he was vs Williams. He could not get combinations off against Lewis because he was fighting a far superior fighter with much better defense than Williams.
Still, he was clearly well below his best in both fights.
I'd almost forgotten about the Briggs fight! Lewis was pretty poor in that one as well, another one of his worse performances. As for the undermotivated excuse, I think the word overconfident would be more accurate, but neither is a worthy excuse anyway.