Graham and Watson vs Benn's world championship opponents

[Counter-puncher]

in view of the oft-stated conviction that W & G were 'unlucky not to win world titles' i had a think about how either would do, had they been given (or had they taken) the opportunities Benn had at world belts.

I think both of them would box the socks off deWitt, for a kickoff. Watson had a better jab, as big and solid as he was at 168 i reckon he'd be stronger than Dewitt at 160 so deWitt wouldn't just outbrawl and bully him. and Herol-Herol would stand DeWitt on his head 10 x out of 10. IMO

ditto Barkley although i suppose you can't discount the JJ style KO on Graham, i could see Watson covering up a little bit like the Benn fight, waiting for Barkley's stamina to give him problems.

then what about Benn's WBC defences, Wharton, Collins, the Italian fella whose name i always forget...

i have to say i'd give Watson and Graham a good chance against pretty much all of them bar McLellan.

thoughts?

[bennie]

in view of the oft-stated conviction that W & G were 'unlucky not to win world titles' i had a think about how either would do, had they been given (or had they taken) the opportunities Benn had at world belts.

I think both of them would box the socks off deWitt, for a kickoff. Watson had a better jab, as big and solid as he was at 168 i reckon he'd be stronger than Dewitt at 160 so deWitt wouldn't just outbrawl and bully him. and Herol-Herol would stand DeWitt on his head 10 x out of 10. IMO

ditto Barkley although i suppose you can't discount the JJ style KO on Graham, i could see Watson covering up a little bit like the Benn fight, waiting for Barkley's stamina to give him problems.

then what about Benn's WBC defences, Wharton, Collins, the Italian fella whose name i always forget...

i have to say i'd give Watson and Graham a good chance against pretty much all of them bar McLellan.

thoughts?

DeWitt was overconfident going into the Benn fight (Benn had only been a pro three years) and paid the price but I'm not sure Watson or even the horrible-to-watch Graham would have found it easy with the tough Yonkers man who came up the hard way and gave Tommy Hearns a good 12-rounder. DeWitt could box and punch a bit and liked a row. Make no mistake, he was a huge gamble for Benn and it paid off, which was luck than judgement from Ambrose Mendy. Benn, of course, had the power to get himself out of jail after he was put down. Watson or Graham?
Conincidentally, DeWitt is one of the few men in boxing to win a 13-round decision, but that's another story.
Likewise, Barkley is underrated because he looked easy to hit but the Barkley who challenged Benn was completely dead at the weight - bone dry. He showed what he could do again when he moved up to super-middle and light-heavyweight. Barkley defines the term 'cute and dangerous'. You were hitting him and thought you had him when he would suddenly uncork a huge shot. That's how he did Hearns (certainly in the first fight but he also floored - and licked him - in the second one), and nearly Duran, who has real respect for "The Blade". Barkley also had Michael Nunn running for his life in the later rounds of their 12-rounder when Nunn was being hailed as the newest boxing superstar. Iran dropped a majority decision to Nunn.
A lot of this depends on where the fights were held. In the States I would make them 50-50. Over here, 55-45 in favour of our guys. Remember DeWitt, Barkley and Graham all lost to Kalambay, which evens things out. Would Watson have beaten a peak Kalambay? Mickey Duff only made matches he felt his fighters would win.

[Counter-puncher]

in view of the oft-stated conviction that W & G were 'unlucky not to win world titles' i had a think about how either would do, had they been given (or had they taken) the opportunities Benn had at world belts.

I think both of them would box the socks off deWitt, for a kickoff. Watson had a better jab, as big and solid as he was at 168 i reckon he'd be stronger than Dewitt at 160 so deWitt wouldn't just outbrawl and bully him. and Herol-Herol would stand DeWitt on his head 10 x out of 10. IMO

ditto Barkley although i suppose you can't discount the JJ style KO on Graham, i could see Watson covering up a little bit like the Benn fight, waiting for Barkley's stamina to give him problems.

then what about Benn's WBC defences, Wharton, Collins, the Italian fella whose name i always forget...

i have to say i'd give Watson and Graham a good chance against pretty much all of them bar McLellan.

thoughts?

In the States I would make them 50-50. Over here, 55-45 in favour of our guys. Remember DeWitt, Barkley and Graham all lost to Kalambay, which evens things out. Would Watson have beaten a peak Kalambay? Mickey Duff only made matches he felt his fighters would win.

all good points mate.

kalambay would have stood Watson on his head. too quick and clever for the leaden-legged Watson.

congrats, by the way, for being probably the first person in the world to define Barkley as 'cute' in any sense

RE Dewitt, i just think from what i've seen he'd be too technically sloppy for the best version of Watson and too slow afoot for the best version of Graham

Re Barkley/Watson, we saw from the benn fight that Watson could tuck up when beign attacked, and kept his wits about him when attacking and at risk from a big counter.

[bennie]

in view of the oft-stated conviction that W & G were 'unlucky not to win world titles' i had a think about how either would do, had they been given (or had they taken) the opportunities Benn had at world belts.

I think both of them would box the socks off deWitt, for a kickoff. Watson had a better jab, as big and solid as he was at 168 i reckon he'd be stronger than Dewitt at 160 so deWitt wouldn't just outbrawl and bully him. and Herol-Herol would stand DeWitt on his head 10 x out of 10. IMO

ditto Barkley although i suppose you can't discount the JJ style KO on Graham, i could see Watson covering up a little bit like the Benn fight, waiting for Barkley's stamina to give him problems.

then what about Benn's WBC defences, Wharton, Collins, the Italian fella whose name i always forget...

i have to say i'd give Watson and Graham a good chance against pretty much all of them bar McLellan.

thoughts?

In the States I would make them 50-50. Over here, 55-45 in favour of our guys. Remember DeWitt, Barkley and Graham all lost to Kalambay, which evens things out. Would Watson have beaten a peak Kalambay? Mickey Duff only made matches he felt his fighters would win.

all good points mate.

kalambay would have stood Watson on his head. too quick and clever for the leaden-legged Watson.

congrats, by the way, for being probably the first person in the world to define Barkley as 'cute' in any sense

RE Dewitt, i just think from what i've seen he'd be too technically sloppy for the best version of Watson and too slow afoot for the best version of Graham

Re Barkley/Watson, we saw from the benn fight that Watson could tuck up when beign attacked, and kept his wits about him when attacking and at risk from a big counter.

Seriously, Barkley was cute, like someone from the fifties. Even Duran couldn't afford to go all out for too long.
As for Wharton, Collins and Galvano, well, Collins is 50-50 with both Watson and Bomber, in my belief. We both know Steve was strong and durable, threw loads of punches and kept on coming. Bomber's awkwardness may not have discouraged him and Watson would have struggled with the Irishman's sheer strength and workrate. Steve gave McCallum a much harder fight than Watson and also beat Benn, of course (a faded Benn, naturally).
Watson and Graham would have played, really, with Galvano, even in Italy.

[coghaugen11]

DeWitt was better at boxing than brawling! All young fighters should watch how well he kept his 'fence' up after throwing the right hand, and he was great at doubling and trebling his jabs and hooks.

He made a peakish Tommy Hearns work for 15 close rounds, and chin-wise soaked up Matthew Hilton's left hooks. Not many gave Nigel much hope remember.

Barkley-Collins would have been unbelievable!

Watson-Collins? I think Michael gets roughed up early, thrown off then Collins is too loose for him to operate. Collins.

DeWitt didn't tire like Collins so would do better against Graham, who tired, than Collins. But standing with Watson I believe DeWitt would be outclassed and gradually bust up.

Some interesting match-ups.

Of course Eubank-Graham!

[bennie]

DeWitt was better at boxing than brawling! All young fighters should watch how well he kept his 'fence' up after throwing the right hand, and he was great at doubling and trebling his jabs and hooks.

He made a peakish Tommy Hearns work for 15 close rounds, and chin-wise soaked up Matthew Hilton's left hooks. Not many gave Nigel much hope remember.

Barkley-Collins would have been unbelievable!

Watson-Collins? I think Michael gets roughed up early, thrown off then Collins is too loose for him to operate. Collins.

DeWitt didn't tire like Collins so would do better against Graham, who tired, than Collins. But standing with Watson I believe DeWitt would be outclassed and gradually bust up.

Some interesting match-ups.

Of course Eubank-Graham!

You raise some fine points again but I do agree with counter-puncher in that Watson and Graham would eventually beat DeWitt, although I'm not sure about Barkley and Collins. The Barkley who twice beat Hearns was doing a helluva lot better than Watson and Graham losing to McCallum while Collins would have bit down on his gumshield (a helluva lot harder than Bono) and refused to lose.
Ultimately, you have to say that Benn's win in the States over DeWitt and Barkley (back-to-back) take some comparing.

[Autobarn]

i don't like giving other ppl "credit" for something benn did. benn got those wins because he had those fights, simple as that. benn is the british super middle who fought the international names

[Counter-puncher]

umm, its not giving 'credit', in scarequotes or otherwise, but airing a hypothetical?

[Old bones Ian]

Doug Dewitt stood up to the fearsome punching Thomas Hearns for 15 rounds, not many could do that. In his next bout he got KO'd with 1 righthand by Jose Quinones , funny old thing boxing.

[Autobarn]

what's the big deal with nunn v barkley?

i felt the narrow decision was hugely flattering to barkley.

through much of the fight, nunn looked confident fighting barkley in the pocket. he mixed boxing and slugging and was bossing most of it. i don't recall him running for his life at the end.

i don't know why ppl don't regard this as 1 of nunn's better wins. just cos he let barkley close to him doesn't mean barkley was actually winning the up close action.

nunn looked like a great fighter v parker, kalambay, roldan, tate...and he was disappointing v curry, starling, toney

always felt that the barkley win belonged more in the 1st group. i think if ppl watch the DVD and forget the myth, they might agree. in hinsdight, were ppl expecting nunn to blow iran out?

[Counter-puncher]

can't really remember tbh, 'barn. my memory was certainly of Nunn backing off a lot late, but he had quite a tendency to fade late on, at the time i think i wrote it off to his opening up decent margins on the scorecards and then sitting back and fighting more cautiously to preserve the win.

[Greg Nicholas]

Bomber Graham beats them all.. Watson at his v.best (Benn/ Eubank 2) beats them all too..