KHAN WOULD MULLER MURRAY

[charlieb]

Khan couldn't even "muller" undersized Gairy St Clair.

St Clair has just been "mullered" by featherweight Jackson Asiku.

St Clair doesn't use his head to block punches.

[Wales]

Brief fight report and Murray quotes below. Looking to do a fuller one with Gallagher and Kayes' comments tomorrow.

Going to get some comments off Keyes on the weight issue TD?

Also, you looked very focussed on ITV 4 the other night?

[Wales]

Khan couldn't even "muller" undersized Gairy St Clair.

St Clair has just been "mullered" by featherweight Jackson Asiku.

St Clair doesn't use his head to block punches.

He didnt throw punches, or close down the gap either. Gomez notoriously uses his head to block punches, yet he got to Khan, no?

[charlieb]

Khan couldn't even "muller" undersized Gairy St Clair.

St Clair has just been "mullered" by featherweight Jackson Asiku.

St Clair doesn't use his head to block punches.

He didnt throw punches, or close down the gap either. Gomez notoriously uses his head to block punches, yet he got to Khan, no?

...and Khan got to Gomez, no?

Gomez is the obvious comparison, but I dont put a lot of stock in that fight, Gomez raising his game for one last hurrah and Khan putting in a sloppy showing doesn't make for a good formula to judge a Murray fight.

Oisin Fagan would be a better call as to how Khan's current form would deal with a pressure fighter with a big heart.

We're not talking about Juan Diaz here, Murray's a domestic operator, euro title holder at best.

[Wales]

yes, Khan did get to Gomez, that wasnt and sint the argument. Khan got to Gomez from the first bell, yet couldnt deter him one bit, didnt get his respect. The fact still remains a shot fighter in Gomez was able to deck and dent Amir ona couple of occassions. Murray is better in every department than the Gomez that fought Khan. Murray will be equally as up for it too.

It doesnt take a Juan Diaz to beat Khan. Limmond decked him, Gomez decked him, Prescott oblitorated him. Amir looks one punch away from defeat in every fight, and without being a huge hitter he's going to struggle with hard chinned aggressive fighters.

[Autobarn]

Murray doesn't use his face to block punches. That is an insult to a quality operator. he is a pressure fighter, and vs a light hitter like lee mc and lawton, he can take one to land 3 or 4. he can walk through those guys. meager hit a bit harder than them, and murray was nice and tucked in, in range to land shots, and when necessary he stepped outside when meager tried to reply. he respected meager's power a bit more, obviosuly knew he couldn't give away shots - so he didn't.

anyway, it's good to see murray smashing up decent fighters on the domestic scene and commanding main events. it's a shame he hasn't been busier, it's a shame he didn't get a chance to build a good following in/near manc before the recession shit hit the fan. hopefully he can step up the next level: jon thaxton as british-to-euro bridge. how about romanov as euro/world bridge.


ps 1 fighter who can't afford to give free shots to ANYONE - guess who? his opponent just pulled out with toothache and he is trained by a man who turns everyone into legends (apparently). send your answer on SAE to...

[sweetscience]

[quote="Autobarn"]

anyway, it's good to see murray smashing up decent fighters on the domestic scene and commanding main events. it's a shame he hasn't been busier, it's a shame he didn't get a chance to build a good following in/near manc before the recession poop hit the fan. hopefully he can step up the next level: jon thaxton as british-to-euro bridge. how about romanov as euro/world bridge.

quote]

id like Murrays next 4 fights to be Thaxton/Mechhane(sp)/Arthur/Romanov

i dont think Murray needs to rush to World Level, unlike Khan who could beat/be beaten by anyone so may as well take a gamble

at this stage i see Khan stopping Murray within 4/5

[Wales]

Has Murray ever been down as a pro??

[sweetscience]

Has Murray ever been down as a pro??

dont think so, but his oppos have been very limited

[danieljenkins]

how could you say khan would muller murray on what performance ?

[charlieb]

yes, Khan did get to Gomez, that wasnt and sint the argument. Khan got to Gomez from the first bell, yet couldnt deter him one bit, didnt get his respect. The fact still remains a shot fighter in Gomez was able to deck and dent Amir ona couple of occassions. Murray is better in every department than the Gomez that fought Khan. Murray will be equally as up for it too.

It doesnt take a Juan Diaz to beat Khan. Limmond decked him, Gomez decked him, Prescott oblitorated him. Amir looks one punch away from defeat in every fight, and without being a huge hitter he's going to struggle with hard chinned aggressive fighters.

Khan 'getting to' Gomez might not have been the argument, but it was the final conclusion, same with the Limond fight. As for Prescott, the circumstances around that fight have been discussed to death, bottom line, Khan fought the wrong fight against a completely unknown quantity and paid the price.

On the back of that catastrophe, he now has the best training and sparring in the world, has shown giant leaps in terms of improvement of defence, approach and control. The write-ups from Wild Card alone should tell you that he's slowly becoming what we thought he could be after Athens.

Murray may have stood a slight chance before the Prescott fight, but that chance has gone and the fighter he'd be facing right now would absolutely 'muller' him. I dont think he'd see the halfway point of a 12 rounder. If there were question marks about Murray's chin, I dont think he'd last more than a couple of rounds, but since he seems to have a decent beard (at the lowish level he's fought), it'd take a good few rounds of getting painfully countered and blinded by shots he just wont see coming before he breaks.

His only chance of winning would be the same as any other halfway decent operator Khan goes in against, a lucky punch.

[sweetscience]

Has Murray ever been down as a pro??

No, will ask later what the story was in the amateurs.

i doubt he did get dropped he didnt have that many, i think less than 30 mostly in Jnrs

and in the seniors he lost (was robbed) against the eventually champ Ste Burke

[Wales]

Khan 'getting to' Gomez might not have been the argument, but it was the final conclusion, same with the Limond fight.

The point is Murray hits a lot harder than both of these guys, so if they can deck him so can Jon, also not every fighter will let him back into the fight like Prescott didnt.

On the back of that catastrophe, he now has the best training and sparring in the world, has shown giant leaps in terms of improvement of defence, approach and control. The write-ups from Wild Card alone should tell you that he's slowly becoming what we thought he could be after Athens.

Wild card write ups are hardly going to say how he's rubbihs are they. bit like alex ferguson releasing a statement in September saying his new signings arw a crock of shit in training. Can you point me to the giant leaps in his defence? Im assuming these leaps were in the fight against fagan, who did little but get peppered by Amir before secumbing, or against barrera, when form memory Amir didnt look great under fire at all.

His only chance of winning would be the same as any other halfway decent operator Khan goes in against, a lucky punch.

Personally I dont think Murray would land a lucky punch but he'd get in close and land something at somepoint. See it doesnt have to be a stereotypical lucky punch to down amir, it seem anything half decent around his whiskers knocks him down.

For what its worth Im not 100% either way on who'd win the fight. but I dont think its a walk in the park for khan, not by any stretch. He doesnt have big power and he doesnt have a chin. not the best attributes to be facing a strong aggressive come forward fighter.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Lol 'lucky punch'. Charlieb, If the fight happened and Murray marched forward throwing bombs and lands one on Khan's sh*tty chin through his sh*tty defence, would it really be a 'lucky punch'?

Lucky punches don't really exist in boxing (exceptions are examples like Calzaghe/Mitchell, where Joe was just slapping away like a washerwoman with his eyes closed and Mitchell turned square onto one).

Other examples, like the one some people tried to call Rahman's bomb on Lewis, had no semblance of 'luck' about them.

If ever there weren't a lucky punch, it would be in the case of a pressure fighter coming forward with bad intentions.

[charlieb]

Khan 'getting to' Gomez might not have been the argument, but it was the final conclusion, same with the Limond fight.

The point is Murray hits a lot harder than both of these guys, so if they can deck him so can Jon, also not every fighter will let him back into the fight like Prescott didnt.

On the back of that catastrophe, he now has the best training and sparring in the world, has shown giant leaps in terms of improvement of defence, approach and control. The write-ups from Wild Card alone should tell you that he's slowly becoming what we thought he could be after Athens.

Wild card write ups are hardly going to say how he's rubbihs are they. bit like alex ferguson releasing a statement in September saying his new signings arw a crock of poop in training. Can you point me to the giant leaps in his defence? Im assuming these leaps were in the fight against fagan, who did little but get peppered by Amir before secumbing, or against barrera, when form memory Amir didnt look great under fire at all.

His only chance of winning would be the same as any other halfway decent operator Khan goes in against, a lucky punch.

Personally I dont think Murray would land a lucky punch but he'd get in close and land something at somepoint. See it doesnt have to be a stereotypical lucky punch to down amir, it seem anything half decent around his whiskers knocks him down.

For what its worth Im not 100% either way on who'd win the fight. but I dont think its a walk in the park for khan, not by any stretch. He doesnt have big power and he doesnt have a chin. not the best attributes to be facing a strong aggressive come forward fighter.

Fagan was a better fighter than Gomez and Limond, and a better gauge of the fighter Murray would be up against. Khan under control, dissected him.

People can knock the Barerra fight as much as they want, but Khan absolutely 'mullered' him, Khan's defence wasn't really called into question because Barerra was at no point in that fight. Khan was brilliant that night.

As for the Wild Card write-ups, you should check out some of Gabe Montoya's stuff, it's even-handed and far from spin.

All of this is of course just my opinion, I wouldn't give Murray a hope in hell. I dont think there's any chance of this fight happening though, Khan's being fast-tracked in order to justify PPV while Murray's (wisely) taking the tried and tested route that could see him earn a decent crust at European level, before one day trying his luck at world level.

[charlieb]

Lol 'lucky punch'. Charlieb, If the fight happened and Murray marched forward throwing bombs and lands one on Khan's sh*tty chin through his sh*tty defence, would it really be a 'lucky punch'?

Lucky punches don't really exist in boxing (exceptions are examples like Calzaghe/Mitchell, where Joe was just slapping away like a washerwoman with his eyes closed and Mitchell turned square onto one).

Other examples, like the one some people tried to call Rahman's bomb on Lewis, had no semblance of 'luck' about them.

If ever there weren't a lucky punch, it would be in the case of a pressure fighter coming forward with bad intentions.

Precisely, I dont see Murray being capable of 'marching forward throwing bombs' against Khan because he'll get his own chin well and truly checked, and when he's not being hit with blinding counters he'll be eating Khan's jab. I'm sure you'll get a kick outta this - If that was Murray's plan, it'd be a repeat of Manny/Ricky.

He just isn't on Khan's level, he may not have losses on his record to nail that comment down, but I've seen more than enough of him to make a personal judgement.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Khan 'getting to' Gomez might not have been the argument, but it was the final conclusion, same with the Limond fight.

The point is Murray hits a lot harder than both of these guys, so if they can deck him so can Jon, also not every fighter will let him back into the fight like Prescott didnt.

On the back of that catastrophe, he now has the best training and sparring in the world, has shown giant leaps in terms of improvement of defence, approach and control. The write-ups from Wild Card alone should tell you that he's slowly becoming what we thought he could be after Athens.

Wild card write ups are hardly going to say how he's rubbihs are they. bit like alex ferguson releasing a statement in September saying his new signings arw a crock of poop in training. Can you point me to the giant leaps in his defence? Im assuming these leaps were in the fight against fagan, who did little but get peppered by Amir before secumbing, or against barrera, when form memory Amir didnt look great under fire at all.

His only chance of winning would be the same as any other halfway decent operator Khan goes in against, a lucky punch.

Personally I dont think Murray would land a lucky punch but he'd get in close and land something at somepoint. See it doesnt have to be a stereotypical lucky punch to down amir, it seem anything half decent around his whiskers knocks him down.

For what its worth Im not 100% either way on who'd win the fight. but I dont think its a walk in the park for khan, not by any stretch. He doesnt have big power and he doesnt have a chin. not the best attributes to be facing a strong aggressive come forward fighter.

Fagan was a better fighter than Gomez and Limond, and a better gauge of the fighter Murray would be up against. Khan under control, dissected him.

People can knock the Barerra fight as much as they want, but Khan absolutely 'mullered' him, Khan's defence wasn't really called into question because Barerra was at no point in that fight. Khan was brilliant that night.

As for the Wild Card write-ups, you should check out some of Gabe Montoya's stuff, it's even-handed and far from spin.

All of this is of course just my opinion, I wouldn't give Murray a hope in hell. I dont think there's any chance of this fight happening though, Khan's being fast-tracked in order to justify PPV while Murray's (wisely) taking the tried and tested route that could see him earn a decent crust at European level, before one day trying his luck at world level.

Jesus - Barrera was half blind - he couldn't see a bloody thing because he got butted and cut wide open. That's hardly an indicative result.

[gobbles]

I remember when Haye and Froch weren't going to be world class.

Right now, Murray's doing some impressive things at domestic level. Lawton was actually coming off good wins, looks to have physically matured, and Murray broke him down impressively. It's possible he improves with the level he's at.

Remember when Murray only had 50% stoppage ratio, no one really thught he could hit, but once he settled into championship level, had more notice and was able to study opponents he's been thrashing some decent fighters.

At British level he isn't really putting a foot wrong - the weigh in aside - so let's judge him by the steps up he has and how he handles it. Thaxton is former EBU champ, could be considered European class, so let's see what he does in European class v the likes of Thaxton, Mezaache, Kudriavtsev.

Khan's got his world title fight for doing nothing world class, for having the right promoter, if he won he was probably going to dump the belt to avoid Ortiz or Maidana. This is "fringing" your way to a title, acting like something your not, having the sneaky way to the top, trying to fool ppl (his "world class W over St Clair not so great after FEAHERWEIGHT Jackson Asiku KO'd him!)...So I can see why ppl would have a go saying "he's not world class". Can't we wait and see until Murray is manouevred, who he fights, and how he handles it, before writing him off?

Interesting that you give others credit for physically maturing, but you can't seem to accept that maybe Khan is too. Besides which, had Khan fought Lawton two years after Murray had beaten him, you would be criticising Khan for feeding off Khan's leftovers.

Also your ridiculous assertion that Khan is "sneaky" for doing things he hasn't even done yet (avoiding Ortiz or Maidana) when Salita is the mandatory anyway.

Certainly don't write off Murray, but Khan is taking a tough fight, why not give him credit for that.

[charlieb]

Jesus - Barrera was half blind - he couldn't see a bloody thing because he got butted and cut wide open. That's hardly an indicative result.

I picked against Khan in that fight. If there had've been a rematch, I'd have had no qualms whatsoever about picking Khan based on what I saw the first time around.

Oviously it should've been stopped shortly after the cut had been inflicted, but Khan looked ridiculously good while it lasted, even before the cut. Those flashy combinations that at one time in his career were wildly off target and largely ineffective were working beautifully. When he did rush in he made it count without getting sloppy. His speed and movement was phenomenal.

On top of that, the last person I'd want to back into corner due a cut would be Barerra. When i saw the cut, I thought it was going to be the fire that Barerra needed to launch a last ditch onslaught. There wasn't a thing he could do though, he was battered from start to finish.

It's a real shame that Khan's performance has been smeared because of the dodgy officiating, but only someone with a real bone to pick with Khan would knock the form he showed that night.

[sweetscience]

i get confused sometimes whether people are Murray Fans or Khan Haters.... i tend to go for the later because unfortunalty Murray doesnt seem to sell many tickets

[Bard of Boxrec]

Jesus - Barrera was half blind - he couldn't see a bloody thing because he got butted and cut wide open. That's hardly an indicative result.

I picked against Khan in that fight. If there had've been a rematch, I'd have had no qualms whatsoever about picking Khan based on what I saw the first time around.

Oviously it should've been stopped shortly after the cut had been inflicted, but Khan looked ridiculously good while it lasted, even before the cut. Those flashy combinations that at one time in his career were wildly off target and largely ineffective were working beautifully. When he did rush in he made it count without getting sloppy. His speed and movement was phenomenal.

On top of that, the last person I'd want to back into corner due a cut would be Barerra. When i saw the cut, I thought it was going to be the fire that Barerra needed to launch a last ditch onslaught. There wasn't a thing he could do though, he was battered from start to finish.

It's a real shame that Khan's performance has been smeared because of the dodgy officiating, but only someone with a real bone to pick with Khan would knock the form he showed that night.

It's easy to look good against a blind punchbag, Freddie. Plus Khan's artillery is not impressive, unless you get off on pitty pat in-out jab-right hands. He has good speed and he can pick good shots, but his in-ring intelligence is poor and of course he's shown nothing to suggest he can deal with any sort of dogfight or even mild pressure. As I said in another thread, handspeed and flashy shots, devoid of anything else, does not a fighter make.

Let's see how significant Khan's 'physical maturing' is when he's in against someone who actually fights back.

[Wales]

i get confused sometimes whether people are Murray Fans or Khan Haters.... i tend to go for the later because unfortunalty Murray doesnt seem to sell many tickets

Why does it have to be either and not just an individuals opinion. I dont think Froch has a cat in hells chance against Hopkins, doesnt mean im a Froch hater.

[Autobarn]

I remember when Haye and Froch weren't going to be world class.

Right now, Murray's doing some impressive things at domestic level. Lawton was actually coming off good wins, looks to have physically matured, and Murray broke him down impressively. It's possible he improves with the level he's at.

Remember when Murray only had 50% stoppage ratio, no one really thught he could hit, but once he settled into championship level, had more notice and was able to study opponents he's been thrashing some decent fighters.

At British level he isn't really putting a foot wrong - the weigh in aside - so let's judge him by the steps up he has and how he handles it. Thaxton is former EBU champ, could be considered European class, so let's see what he does in European class v the likes of Thaxton, Mezaache, Kudriavtsev.

Khan's got his world title fight for doing nothing world class, for having the right promoter, if he won he was probably going to dump the belt to avoid Ortiz or Maidana. This is "fringing" your way to a title, acting like something your not, having the sneaky way to the top, trying to fool ppl (his "world class W over St Clair not so great after FEAHERWEIGHT Jackson Asiku KO'd him!)...So I can see why ppl would have a go saying "he's not world class". Can't we wait and see until Murray is manouevred, who he fights, and how he handles it, before writing him off?

Interesting that you give others credit for physically maturing, but you can't seem to accept that maybe Khan is too. Besides which, had Khan fought Lawton two years after Murray had beaten him, you would be criticising Khan for feeding off Khan's leftovers.

Also your ridiculous assertion that Khan is "sneaky" for doing things he hasn't even done yet (avoiding Ortiz or Maidana) when Salita is the mandatory anyway.

Certainly don't write off Murray, but Khan is taking a tough fight, why not give him credit for that.

oh no, i'm a HYPOCRITE. nooooooooooo

well Khan's maturation is supposedly temperamental. he has apparently, allegedly, settled down. he finally got the message after being destroyed by prescott, and he proved it in all of 4 rds v Barrera and 2 or 3 v Fagan - 2 opponents who were injured.

Lawton has seemed to fill out, got a bit tougher, hence the win over Gethin. Lawton is an alright opponent but I feel he has toughened up a bit from the Thaxton defeat. Khan got him straight after losing a tough, long-ish fight to Thaxton. Murray got him after a good win.

Lawton was British title challenger, Murray wanted it ages ago for actiivty and a quick next notch on the Lonsdale belt. There obviosly isn't the money to bring in the Barreras, St Clairs etc for Murray, so he has to make do with the British level guys.

If Khan beats Kotelnik props to him. But Ortiz or Maidana = Prescott on Khan's brittle chin. Until I see Khan gut out a win, I see him as a Herbie Hide at lightweight. The lad goes horizontal far too easily. I need to see him do a Haye-Fragomeni / Haye-Mormeck type of performance before buying into it that his speed will simply take him to a decorated world level career. Khan is meant to be world class, it's like he's already there - Ring mag #10 lightweight - but his only fight in world class v someone his size is a 1 round stoppage loss. I find it ironic that Khan IS world class, but that Murray WILL NEVER QUITE MAKE IT...Let's see Murray get a chance and see how he fares, first, was the gist of my post.

[Twinkle Toes]

I think that was a better Lawton than the one who went in against khan, but I tend to think that Khan would be just too quick for Murray.

Murray was stopped in his tracks on more than once occasion by Lawton who as we know isn't the heaviest of hitters, and he's certainly a lot slower than Khan.

Murray is very methodical, and he has some nice attributes, the question is wether they are enough to beat Khan, who himself is improving.

At this moment, I would go for Khan to keep at range, and dart in and out using his speed to take a points win.

I need to see Murray in against someone better than Lawton, before I could confidently pick murray to beat Khan.

[Dioufy]

I question whether he can go at the pace he does for 12 hard rounds. It was a ferocious pace against Lawton and McAllister - he got to them both, but if a fight goes past ten rounds, is he susceptible to be fecked, and KO'ed?