DOES MIKE TYSON BELONG IN THE HALL OF FAME?

[oldwarrior]

Now that the 2009 class has been inducted, it's time to consider the class of 2010. Believe it or not, Mike Tyson will be eligible for induction.

That being said, does Tyson deserve to be inducted in 2010? Does the committee give him a black eye and make him wait for a few years? Or, given his controversial past, maybe he's not worthy at all?

It's a close call either way. Tyson did a lot FOR the sport. And..........a lot TO the sport. Which way do you think it should go?

Me personally, I think he should be inducted next year. Perhaps, there are others more worthy? If so, then who?

oldwarrior

[Collins2000]

Well as it is the hall of fame and Iron Mike was the most famous boxer since Ali then he should be inducted the first year he is eligible.

[BoxBuzz]

Yep, fame it is. And he easily meets the mark regarding accomplishment for those who are more formal in their analysis.

The only way you can hold him back is if you somehow cross template the baseball hall of fame values across the boxing culture.

But baseball is very much about "going home" and thus how "nice" you may or may not be, regarding your behavior.

Boxing's key goal is to impose your bad behavior (albeit good skills) on your otherwise equally determined opponent.

Is there a single category that is boxing related that Mike does not "make the grade"? I would say NO. Yep we've had some good behavior and bad behavior from past champions...but has that ever influenced or should it ever influence this outcome? Please let's not let boxing go PC. This is boxing...there never has and should never be any "PC" connection. Let it remain forever the antithesis of political correctness. At least until the day that femininity rules every subtle nuance of our lives.

Please note I much prefer femininity in many if not the majority of things that get my attention. But it's not the optimal set of sensibilities in the area of competitive sports issues.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Infamous is more like it.

Sad to see if he, "easily" passes the accomplishments test, too. He didn't accomplish all that much for a fighter of his talent.

[mali]

YES.
One of the most exciting fighters of the last 25 years and(imo) top ten heavyweight of all time.

[Rick Farris]

Well as it is the hall of fame and Iron Mike was the most famous boxer since Ali then he should be inducted the first year he is eligible.

Collins . . . You are 100% correct. We will definitly have Mike Tyson and J.C. Chavez on our ballot and they are both certain inductees.
Mike was the youngest heavyweight champ in history, a two-time champ, a potential all-time great that got side tracked.
Mike Tyson is one of the most valid HOF inductions in recent years.


Rick Farris
WBHOF Selection Commitee Chairman

[Goodnight, Irene]

"Collins . . . You are 100% correct. We will definitly have Mike Tyson and J.C. Chavez on our ballot and they are both certain inductees.
Mike was the youngest heavyweight champ in history, a two-time champ, a potential all-time great that got side tracked.
Mike Tyson is one of the most valid HOF inductions in recent years.


Rick Farris
WBHOF Selection Commitee Chairman" - Rick

Yikes. A simply huge chunk of his career is a wasteland. The WBHOF considers partial belt-holding cause to use the term, "Champ" now? Or are you speaking on your own behalf?

Mike Tyson is a one-time (legitimate) champion. Talent-wise, he's HOF material. Accomplishment-wise, well --- maybe. Someone oughtta slap the man for what he did achieve, though. It wasn't one iota what a fighter of his potential was capable of --- but to call him, "one of the most valid inductees" in years is evidence of a sorry state of affairs.

Collins --- I know you're about to launch into attack-dog mode on Rick's behalf, here --- don't bother. I don't need another," " at the end of another post replying to things I've never said.

[Collins2000]

[BoxBuzz]

GI....you and I have agreed and disagreed along the way....and we both know that we will agree and disagree again as time goes by. But I must ask, just what portion of the statement "HALL OF FAME" is ambiguous to you?

Here is my friend "Webster's" definition of same. I have included the top three definitions just in case there is some way we can get to any possible areas of confusion.

Hall:
noun
1. a corridor or passageway in a building.
2. the large entrance room of a house or building; vestibule; lobby.
3. a large room or building for public gatherings; auditorium: convention hall; concert hall.

Of:
preposition
1. (used to indicate distance or direction from, separation, deprivation, etc.): within a mile of the church; south of Omaha; to be robbed of one's money.
2. (used to indicate derivation, origin, or source): a man of good family; the plays of Shakespeare; a piece of cake.
3. (used to indicate cause, motive, occasion, or reason): to die of hunger.

Fame

–noun
1. widespread reputation, esp. of a favorable character; renown; public eminence: to seek fame as an opera singer.
2. common estimation or opinion generally held of a person or thing; reputation.
–verb (used with object)
3. Archaic. to have or spread the renown of; to make famous.


I'll include "favorable" just in case that is your area of critical reserve: Remember you must apply this adjective in accordance with the sport of boxing. NOT in some subjective value application of ethics, or personal value bias. I have placed in bold the significant qualifiers that support my position. Infamous is nothing more than a subcategory of Fame and would not rule out him being placed in this descriptor. Any so called "Hall of Infamy would simply be another corridor within the hall of FAME. IMHO.

1. characterized by approval or support; positive: a favorable report.
2. creating or winning favor; pleasing: to make a favorable impression.
3. affording advantage, opportunity, or convenience; advantageous: a favorable position.

certainly his "report, impression, and position" are all congruent with astounding success or at the very least "remarkable achievement".


Now if this is not persuasive enough to make my argument I have my friend "Winston" close at hand and ready to add cosult to further make my case.

[Flump]

Absolutely no doubt, the most famous fighter in the sport and had a 20 year career, the youngest ever heavyweight champ, whatever his transgressions an absolute certainty.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Yep, fame it is. And he easily meets the mark regarding accomplishment for those who are more formal in their analysis.

The only way you can hold him back is if you somehow cross template the baseball hall of fame values across the boxing culture.

But baseball is very much about "going home" and thus how "nice" you may or may not be, regarding your behavior.

Boxing's key goal is to impose your bad behavior (albeit good skills) on your otherwise equally determined opponent.

- With all due respect, you don't seem to know much about baseball history. Pitchers are some of the meanest snakes in sports. They have to be to do what they do.

Ty Cobb was probably the meanest, vilest SOB who was ever in sports and those early days of baseball were boxing's equivalent to a Harry Greb foul fest, what with flying razor sharp spikes and no headgear for batters on top of a rock moving as speeds up to 160 mph that can severely hurt, maim, or kill a player if he ain't paying attention or mistimes something.

Sure, baseball like all sports also has it's share of gentlemen like Aaron, Musial, Seaver, Gehrig, but that's easily balanced out by the Billy Martins, Albert Belles, Lenny Dykstras and Juan Marichals.

Silly thread. Tyson's a lock.

[dempseyfire]

Beyond the fame, the guy cleaned out an entire division and was the undisputed Heavyweight champion. He had a swift fall from grace but he's definitely a shoo-in for the HOF.

[BoxBuzz]

Yep, fame it is. And he easily meets the mark regarding accomplishment for those who are more formal in their analysis.

The only way you can hold him back is if you somehow cross template the baseball hall of fame values across the boxing culture.

But baseball is very much about "going home" and thus how "nice" you may or may not be, regarding your behavior.

Boxing's key goal is to impose your bad behavior (albeit good skills) on your otherwise equally determined opponent.

- With all due respect, you don't seem to know much about baseball history. Pitchers are some of the meanest snakes in sports. They have to be to do what they do.

Ty Cobb was probably the meanest, vilest SOB who was ever in sports and those early days of baseball were boxing's equivalent to a Harry Greb foul fest, what with flying razor sharp spikes and no headgear for batters on top of a rock moving as speeds up to 160 mph that can severely hurt, maim, or kill a player if he ain't paying attention or mistimes something.

Sure, baseball like all sports also has it's share of gentlemen like Aaron, Musial, Seaver, Gehrig, but that's easily balanced out by the Billy Martins, Albert Belles, Lenny Dykstras and Juan Marichals.

Silly thread. Tyson's a lock.

Due respect? Thanks. But it's your imagination that has you showing your arse in this case. Yes I do remember when the feminization of society had not intruded on baseball. However I doubt your old enough to remember those days. So it appears you have derived the nature of baseballs more rough and tumble history from some old baseball cards that your dad owned. At any rate the baseball culture I am referring to is the Pete Rose mentality. ....Though I suppose Shoeless Joe Jackson may have borne the brunt of a similar fate. Though neither deserved their fate. Your right about the vile nature of Ty.

It seems we agree on the far more important point that nothing should stand between Mike and his just rewards. Just as in the case of Monzon, Mike should be put on the fast track regarding this honor.

[bjermaine]

- With all due respect, you don't seem to know much about baseball history. Pitchers are some of the meanest snakes in sports. They have to be to do what they do.

Ty Cobb was probably the meanest, vilest SOB who was ever in sports and those early days of baseball were boxing's equivalent to a Harry Greb foul fest, what with flying razor sharp spikes and no headgear for batters on top of a rock moving as speeds up to 160 mph that can severely hurt, maim, or kill a player if he ain't paying attention or mistimes something.

Sure, baseball like all sports also has it's share of gentlemen like Aaron, Musial, Seaver, Gehrig, but that's easily balanced out by the Billy Martins, Albert Belles, Lenny Dykstras and Juan Marichals.

Silly thread. Tyson's a lock.

ty cobb was a pitcher? just another post by a complete idiot. BRR is in the granberry HOF on these boards.

[raylawpc]

- With all due respect, you don't seem to know much about baseball history. Pitchers are some of the meanest snakes in sports. They have to be to do what they do.

Ty Cobb was probably the meanest, vilest SOB who was ever in sports and those early days of baseball were boxing's equivalent to a Harry Greb foul fest, what with flying razor sharp spikes and no headgear for batters on top of a rock moving as speeds up to 160 mph that can severely hurt, maim, or kill a player if he ain't paying attention or mistimes something.

Sure, baseball like all sports also has it's share of gentlemen like Aaron, Musial, Seaver, Gehrig, but that's easily balanced out by the Billy Martins, Albert Belles, Lenny Dykstras and Juan Marichals.

Silly thread. Tyson's a lock.

ty cobb was a pitcher? just another post by a complete idiot. BRR is in the granberry HOF on these boards.

If Ty Cobb could throw a 160 mph fastball , he should have been a pitcher.

[NazNaci1]

Tyson, one of the most explosive fighters of recent times. For natural abillity and accomplishments (in boxing), he is an unquestionable cert.

If not.....well he should be.

[bollox]

He probably deserves to get in for his achievements from 86 to 88. For a while he cleaned up the mess that was the HW division and that's gotta be worth something

[Goodnight, Irene]

GI....you and I have agreed and disagreed along the way....and we both know that we will agree and disagree again as time goes by. But I must ask, just what portion of the statement "HALL OF FAME" is ambiguous to you?

Here is my friend "Webster's" definition of same. I have included the top three definitions just in case there is some way we can get to any possible areas of confusion.

Hall:
noun
1. a corridor or passageway in a building.
2. the large entrance room of a house or building; vestibule; lobby.
3. a large room or building for public gatherings; auditorium: convention hall; concert hall.

Of:
preposition
1. (used to indicate distance or direction from, separation, deprivation, etc.): within a mile of the church; south of Omaha; to be robbed of one's money.
2. (used to indicate derivation, origin, or source): a man of good family; the plays of Shakespeare; a piece of cake.
3. (used to indicate cause, motive, occasion, or reason): to die of hunger.

Fame

–noun
1. widespread reputation, esp. of a favorable character; renown; public eminence: to seek fame as an opera singer.
2. common estimation or opinion generally held of a person or thing; reputation.
–verb (used with object)
3. Archaic. to have or spread the renown of; to make famous.


I'll include "favorable" just in case that is your area of critical reserve: Remember you must apply this adjective in accordance with the sport of boxing. NOT in some subjective value application of ethics, or personal value bias. I have placed in bold the significant qualifiers that support my position. Infamous is nothing more than a subcategory of Fame and would not rule out him being placed in this descriptor. Any so called "Hall of Infamy would simply be another corridor within the hall of FAME. IMHO.

1. characterized by approval or support; positive: a favorable report.
2. creating or winning favor; pleasing: to make a favorable impression.
3. affording advantage, opportunity, or convenience; advantageous: a favorable position.

certainly his "report, impression, and position" are all congruent with astounding success or at the very least "remarkable achievement".


Now if this is not persuasive enough to make my argument I have my friend "Winston" close at hand and ready to add cosult to further make my case.

I like to think og Canastota reserved for great fighters measured on their achievements, not how many headlines they wrote.

Hall Of Shame or Infamy, sure. Hall Of Fame? Perhaps --- but he can damn well wait his time.

[bollox]

Maybe a 'Hall of Greatness' would be a more apt description of what's needed

p.s. is Sumbu Kalambay in the HOF? If not then maybe he should be, as the man to hand Herol Graham and Mike McCallum their first defeats

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- With all due respect, you don't seem to know much about baseball history. Pitchers are some of the meanest snakes in sports. They have to be to do what they do.

Ty Cobb was probably the meanest, vilest SOB who was ever in sports and those early days of baseball were boxing's equivalent to a Harry Greb foul fest, what with flying razor sharp spikes and no headgear for batters on top of a rock moving as speeds up to 160 mph that can severely hurt, maim, or kill a player if he ain't paying attention or mistimes something.

Sure, baseball like all sports also has it's share of gentlemen like Aaron, Musial, Seaver, Gehrig, but that's easily balanced out by the Billy Martins, Albert Belles, Lenny Dykstras and Juan Marichals.

Silly thread. Tyson's a lock.

ty cobb was a pitcher? just another post by a complete idiot. BRR is in the granberry HOF on these boards.

- Complete idiots is what used to send you hiding behind mummy's skirt, remember?

Sorry to have frightened your cap locks and grammar into a granberry fright there bubby. Short answer to your question is, yes, Cobb was a pitcher, a pitcher of warm spit.

Get on back to me when you need another softball lobbed up and, criminy, stop wiping your nose on mummy's skirt.

[Collins2000]

Don't worry BRR, just like you, I know fekk all about baseball.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

He probably deserves to get in for his achievements from 86 to 88. For a while he cleaned up the mess that was the HW division and that's gotta be worth something

- Seeing as this year they let the guy in who made the mess in the beginning, maybe it would be worth it to give Tyson another crack at cleaning up the mess the guy also made in Canastota.

Guaranteed you won't hear no 15 min rants about what a bum Foreman was.

[SteveO]

Yes of course Mike Tyson should definitely be inducted into the Hall Of Fame, for all the positive reasons listed elsewhere in this thread.

[raylawpc]

- With all due respect, you don't seem to know much about baseball history. Pitchers are some of the meanest snakes in sports. They have to be to do what they do.

Ty Cobb was probably the meanest, vilest SOB who was ever in sports and those early days of baseball were boxing's equivalent to a Harry Greb foul fest, what with flying razor sharp spikes and no headgear for batters on top of a rock moving as speeds up to 160 mph that can severely hurt, maim, or kill a player if he ain't paying attention or mistimes something.

Sure, baseball like all sports also has it's share of gentlemen like Aaron, Musial, Seaver, Gehrig, but that's easily balanced out by the Billy Martins, Albert Belles, Lenny Dykstras and Juan Marichals.

Silly thread. Tyson's a lock.

ty cobb was a pitcher? just another post by a complete idiot. BRR is in the granberry HOF on these boards.

- Complete idiots is what used to send you hiding behind mummy's skirt, remember?

Sorry to have frightened your cap locks and grammar into a granberry fright there bubby. Short answer to your question is, yes, Cobb was a pitcher, a pitcher of warm spit.

Get on back to me when you need another softball lobbed up and, criminy, stop wiping your nose on mummy's skirt.

BRR: Can you list some of those pitchers who used to throw 160 mph fastballs back in the era of Ty Cobb? Can you also identify some major league games in which Cobb pitched? Thanks.

[observer1]

Infamous is more like it.

Sad to see if he, "easily" passes the accomplishments test, too. He didn't accomplish all that much for a fighter of his talent.

Youngest Champion ever?

Undisputed at 21, uniting the belts for the first time since Ali's era?

Yeah he should have got alot more from this talent, but that said, he did things other's didn;t