Calzaghe "Jean Pascal is a bum" (Pascal-Diaconu spoiler)

[RLewis]

Mr RLewis,

No disrespect, Froch predicting Lacy to knock Calzaghe out was perhaps the consensus before the fight - I even predicted that. But Joe saying he would take Carl out in three rounds is stupid. It's actually borderline insane, whereas Carl's quote was a fair prediction.

But my point is, it's not in context. It sounds like a snap response to a question like "Carl Froch has been saying this about you, what do you think about him", it is obviously not a considered prediction, because it was always a fight that would never take place.

[Dioufy]

Perhaps I am letting my hatred of Calzaghe rule my head, but my opinion is, everytime Calzaghe opens his mouth, it's a ridiculous comment. Just like the one in the thread about Pascal. At least you know Froch would back up his mouth, unlike a certain Welshman.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

What a disrespectful comment to a man who's just won his first world title. Obviously he's saying it to degrade Froch's win over Pascal even though this win (frochs) is probably better than all but about 3 of Joe's wins.

I wonder if JC is getting an itch

[Autobarn]

Clearly Pascal is not a bum, he isn't now, he wasn't then. Just as clearly, Lacy was one-dimensional because Calzaghe made him look one-dimensional. He was also ruined as a fighter, because his corner didn't pull him out after the eighth round. Styles make fights and had Froch faced Lacy, it would have been a completely different fight.

But comparing Froch and Calzaghe at this stage is daft. Yes, Pascal has done incredibly well to win a world title so quickly, but Calzaghe's greatest achievement was being able to continue winning over such a long period of time. To beat Eubank and Kessler a decade apart, is a remarkable achievement whichever way you look at it. He was also a pretty sensational fighter before he became a world champion.

I hope Froch gets the fights he wants and that he wins them, but comparing the two should only really be done when Carl retires.

And Joe won't come back

i started this thread not to compare Froch and Calzaghe, or to discuss who would win, but to put to the test Joe Calzaghe's comment that Jean Pascal "is a bum, nowhere near world class" & also to celebrate a great fight from a British angle.

also, with pascal winning the WBC light heavy title last night, it is perfect timing for this thread, to put froch in some perspective. that fight happened last night, this thread happened this am. it's called CAUSE & EFFECT.

it is not a slate Calzaghe thread - he was great in the Lacy and Kessler fights - but it forms a neat comparison as it shows what hard back-to-back fights Carl "The Corba" Forch has had. It could be quite a run, it will likely be short and sweet, a contrast to Joe's excellent long if DILUTED run of 20 whatever defences.

[Autobarn]

we all know that Calzaghe said "Pascal is a bum" after Froch-Pascal, last year? we heard similar comments (pre recorded) on Buncey's Hour, remember, when Carl had just won the title.

Not after Pascal-Diaconu, last night - right?

apologies for not specifying, if it looks "out of context"

[Dioufy]

Got to love Mr Froch though. Pascal, Taylor and now possibly Bute or Hopkins. Fecking amazing to follow his career.

[hitman_hatton1]

it needs putting into perspective.

diaconu was highly rated by the We Be Crooks.

he'd not beaten much and hadn't look very impressive on undercards.

pascal steps up a weight and wins a decision for a vacant title that was stripped from the real champion at the weight.

good win for pascal but let's not wank him off too much. DD

[RLewis]

we all know that Calzaghe said "Pascal is a bum" after Froch-Pascal, last year? we heard similar comments (pre recorded) on Buncey's Hour, remember, when Carl had just won the title.

Not after Pascal-Diaconu, last night - right?

apologies for not specifying, if it looks "out of context"

I wasn't meaning to have a pop at the original post. Pascal has, to use a horse racing phrase, franked the form in a quite considerable way. Carl's win over Pascal now looks like a cracking good win on paper and it gives him a good claim to be the best boxer around the super-middleweight/light-heavyweight divisions right now.

[Autobarn]

we all know that Calzaghe said "Pascal is a bum" after Froch-Pascal, last year? we heard similar comments (pre recorded) on Buncey's Hour, remember, when Carl had just won the title.

Not after Pascal-Diaconu, last night - right?

apologies for not specifying, if it looks "out of context"

I wasn't meaning to have a pop at the original post. Pascal has, to use a horse racing phrase, franked the form in a quite considerable way. Carl's win over Pascal now looks like a cracking good win on paper and it gives him a good claim to be the best boxer around the super-middleweight/light-heavyweight divisions right now.

anyway, i took exception to joe's comment as a little classless. so i was waiting to see if pascal beat diaconu for the title, and have bene planning to bring this up. worked a treat

definitely lacy was promising, and didn't go on to do anything afterward because he'd been ruined aftre taking 100s of shots through the 12 rounds

[whiskey]

Tell you one thing, he's better than the jokes on Calzaghe's resume anyway.

But's that's not the issue. The issue is whether he wanted to fight Froch or Hopkins/Jones. Carl became a world champion after Joe had his last fight. Joe always said he wanted to retire then. Had Carl been a contender in 2005 and still on the BBC, maybe he'd have got the call instead of Brian Magee. But he wasn't.

haha.

But Calzaghe pulled out of the Magee fight.

And guess who offered to step in and bring along his British & Commonwealth titles ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/4358453.stm

[RLewis]

Tell you one thing, he's better than the jokes on Calzaghe's resume anyway.

But's that's not the issue. The issue is whether he wanted to fight Froch or Hopkins/Jones. Carl became a world champion after Joe had his last fight. Joe always said he wanted to retire then. Had Carl been a contender in 2005 and still on the BBC, maybe he'd have got the call instead of Brian Magee. But he wasn't.

haha.

But Calzaghe pulled out of the Magee fight.

And guess who offered to step in and bring along his British & Commonwealth titles ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/4358453.stm

He didn't pull out. The fight got scrapped after Universum complained to the WBO because it was only two months before the mandatory v Veit, so the WBO refused to sanction it.

[Eraserhead]

Clearly Pascal is not a bum, he isn't now, he wasn't then. Just as clearly, Lacy was one-dimensional because Calzaghe made him look one-dimensional. He was also ruined as a fighter, because his corner didn't pull him out after the eighth round. Styles make fights and had Froch faced Lacy, it would have been a completely different fight.

But comparing Froch and Calzaghe at this stage is daft. Yes, Pascal has done incredibly well to win a world title so quickly, but Calzaghe's greatest achievement was being able to continue winning over such a long period of time. To beat Eubank and Kessler a decade apart, is a remarkable achievement whichever way you look at it. He was also a pretty sensational fighter before he became a world champion.

In your attempts to vindicate the way Calzaghe constructed his career, you've also pinpointed exactly why he'll never go down as one of the true greats.

You said...

'Calzaghe's greatest achievement was being able to continue winning over such a long period of time'.

THAT's his greatest achievement? Wow. Sven Ottke's greatest achievement was the same thing. Ray Leonard's greatest achievements were beating an unbeaten Thomas Hearns and returning to the sport and defeating Marvin Hagler. That's what made him great. Fights. Risks. Huge wins at the elite level.

Unbeaten records mean f-all when stacked against the credentials of the genuine greats.

If Froch spends the next 12-18 months beating top, elite fighters, then I don't care how fewer fights than Calzaghe he's had or how shorter his unbeaten streak is. Unfortunately Joe's career didn't start at an elite, world-class level until March 2006.

[Max Molyneux]

Where did Joe say Pascal was a bum? Can't find it on the links posted.

Pascal could of beat Froch if he didn't turn so negative and went into a shell.

Gomez, Froch in 2005 wouldn't of been ready for world level yet, Froch was calling him out since Damon Hague. Calzaghe would smash him then and now. Froch is the current most overrated fighter who would be nothing special without his punch. Froch has backed out of a Calzaghe offer too.

[exittored]

I saw Pascal vs Diaconu Live and it was a Classic Slug Fest and a definate FOTY Candidate especially the 5th Rd that was one of the Rounds of the Year so Far.

Jean Pascal would have given Calzaghe Fits for all 12 Rds with his handspeed and style and outside of a 43 yr old Hopkins and Kessler(who is Good but i've never rated as highly as everyone else) he would have been the Best Fighter Calzaghe ever faced whether it was at Super Middle or Light Heavyweight.

I had Pascal vs Froch even after 10 rds and it was only the fact that Froch won the last 2 rds that gave him a 115-113 on my scorecard. Even after he lost i said Pascal had the better potential due to him being 6 years younger

Pascal was only 25 than and 26 now so is just coming into his Peak as a Boxer and i'd actually be Confident that he'd beat Froch a Year from now especially at Light Heavyweight which Pascal carries very well.

[whiskey]

Where did Joe say Pascal was a bum? Can't find it on the links posted.

Pascal could of beat Froch if he didn't turn so negative and went into a shell.

Gomez, Froch in 2005 wouldn't of been ready for world level yet, Froch was calling him out since Damon Hague. Calzaghe would smash him then and now. Froch is the current most overrated fighter who would be nothing special without his punch. Froch has backed out of a Calzaghe offer too.

Max, you know nothing except what you want to believe.

If you believe that a legit offer for Froch to fight Calzaghe was turned down then it says more about you than it does Carl.

The guy chased Calzaghe down and no sooner had he been named as #1 contender to the WBC title which Calzaghe held, the welshman vacated.

As a result of this, the WBO then took away their title from Calzaghe. When he found out about this he wrote to them stating that he was only moving up to light heavy for the Hopkins fight and wanted to return and defend it. So they left the title with him.

Pascal was wanted as the man to replace Calzaghe as their champion by the WBO, but he turned down a fight for the interim title against Chicken Inkin and after Taylor backed out of fighting Froch, Pascal stepped up to the plate.

In the weeks before the Froch v Pascal fight, chicken Inkin fought Fulgenico Zuniga.... and 2 days before they fought Calzaghe declared he was giving up the title and thus the two bums duked it out for the full trinket instead of the interim version.

The WBO is a pile of toss and their best champion to hold it only fought one mandatory in all those years....

And by the way, when was the last time Calzaghed 'smashed someone' ?

I'll save you the effort - it was Mario Veit in 2005..... their 'rematch' - Calzaghe's only mandatory.

[observer1]

Max Moleneux, save us the rubbish mate.

You're just embarrassing yourself.

[charlieb]

There was a link to the fight posted in the current forum last night.

Good fight, Diaconu didn't lose much in defeat, other than his strap.

The fight left me with the impression that if Pascal had've chosen to turn it into a war (which it was in brief patches), he could've gotten Diaconu out of there. He's just so fast and has good power, but he seemed to be showing Diaconu's own power an awful lot of respect and decided to box on the backfoot for most of the fight, Diaconu chasing, Pascal potshotting before falling into a clinch, and repeat.

Where's the link to Calzaghe's comments?

Anyone get the feeling that Joe's considering a comeback?

[Autobarn]

Calzaghe's comments were after Froch v Pascal, ages ago. Can't find the link anymore.

[Dioufy]

Jesus, Max.

[Wrists]

Clearly Max won't have anything bad said about Calzaghe but...................

There is a lot of double standards on here about Froch and Calzaghe.

Yes its silly Joe saying he would knock Carl out in 3 rounds - he wouldn't we all know that.

But its equally silly when Carl states that 'Calzaghe is ducking him' - a guy who fights Kessler, Lacy and BHop is not a guy who is ducking Froch.

Lets bury this Froch/Calzaghe thing once and for all. Ron Lewis right Froch came about 1 year too late for the fight to happen.

Lets not simply pick apart whatever Joe says because certain people don't like him. From time to time all sportsmen talk crap, it comes with the terrority, Froch equally talks rubbish and talked a lot of crap after the Taylor fight which essentially he got lucky in against a middleweight.

For the record I believe if the fight did happen Joe stands Froch on his head ala Lacy, Carl is a very good fighter but is too slow to live with Calzaghe.

But the fight won't happen as Calzaghe has RETIRED - lets enjoy Froch's run while it lasts as it will be exciting and really thats a lot better to talk about than a fight which will never happen.

[Dioufy]

Calzaghe, in terms of ability, is a whole world ahead of Froch. I guess people look at Calzaghe's record and see that in all his big fights he's had a major advantage. Eubank, took the fight late, Kessler and Lacy, both in Wales, Jones jr and BHOP, age.

It's safe to say that Froch's win against Taylor is equally as impressive as the Kessler win, as it was Froch's second defence, he was away, took the small end of the purse and was in against a smooth operator. Froch has massive balls, whereas Calzaghe's ain't as big.

[Rocky Balboa]

I like Calzaghe, but he does himself no favours when making such ridiculous comments as Pascal being a bum.

If Pascal is such, then what the fcuk does that make guys like Lacy, Manfredo & Bika? Pascal would certainly beat those guys!

[whiskey]

Clearly Max won't have anything bad said about Calzaghe but...................

There is a lot of double standards on here about Froch and Calzaghe.

Yes its silly Joe saying he would knock Carl out in 3 rounds - he wouldn't we all know that.

But its equally silly when Carl states that 'Calzaghe is ducking him' - a guy who fights Kessler, Lacy and BHop is not a guy who is ducking Froch.

Lets bury this Froch/Calzaghe thing once and for all. Ron Lewis right Froch came about 1 year too late for the fight to happen.

Lets not simply pick apart whatever Joe says because certain people don't like him. From time to time all sportsmen talk crap, it comes with the terrority, Froch equally talks rubbish and talked a lot of crap after the Taylor fight which essentially he got lucky in against a middleweight.

For the record I believe if the fight did happen Joe stands Froch on his head ala Lacy, Carl is a very good fighter but is too slow to live with Calzaghe.

But the fight won't happen as Calzaghe has RETIRED - lets enjoy Froch's run while it lasts as it will be exciting and really thats a lot better to talk about than a fight which will never happen.

Sorry, but i disagree wholeheartedly.

Calzaghe fought a raft of chumps, bums and imports like Ashira, Bika etc when he could have made a Froch fight.

Joe will be remembered for his unbeaten record - certainly not his high-risk fights with the best fighters of his era.

[tonyevs]

I can't say that i've seen a wad of Diaconu fights, but he despatched of Rico Hoye in just 3 rounds by knockout. Not bad considering he is 5'8 and Hoye is about 6'3.

I`m not too sure basing your opinion on somebody as fragile as Hoye really wins any arguements

Pascal is clearly no bum as calzaghe is reported to have said .. but by beating the little known, and even littler proven Diaconu doesn`t really make him the real deal either..

I fancied Diaconu to win against pascal because I wasn`t overly impressed with pascal just because he gave a fighter as limited as Froch nightmares ...

Lots here slate calzaghe just because he fought alot of poor opposition - this doesn`t really prove he did not always possess the great tallent he demonstrated against the better names on his record, the best names on Froch`s record have come very close to winning - lets not forget that

[whiskey]

There are absolutely no debatable wins on Froch's record, he won them clearly.

I could give you a couple from Calzaghe where a huge chunk of the audience though he lost - and he never rematched them.

Instead he rematched a chump who'd he'd previously beaten in a bloody round.

Did Froch rematch Tatevosyan? or Tony Dodson? at least they went more than 1.52 seconds like Veit originally did.