I must admit I haven't seen the fight yet and its on after Sprott but just based on the result against an inexperienced journeyman and what i saw last time out, I really can't see Andy making any sort of impact.
The power seems to be somewhat overrated but the main concern for me with Andy is how tough fights seems to be for him now-a-days against relatively average opponents and also the fact his chin is just hanging out to dry. I think Barker and Macklin look on a different level from him and even Duddy , who looks like he to will go no further, appears to have a little more to him.
Perhaps a tad prematurely harsh but put simply I see little if any improvement from the Vanda disaster.
WayoftheCass wrote:I must admit I haven't seen the fight yet and its on after Sprott but just based on the result against an inexperienced journeyman and what i saw last time out, I really can't see Andy making any sort of impact.
The power seems to be somewhat overrated but the main concern for me with Andy is how tough fights seems to be for him now-a-days against relatively average opponents and also the fact his chin is just hanging out to dry. I think Barker and Macklin look on a different level from him and even Duddy , who looks like he to will go no further, appears to have a little more to him.
Perhaps a tad prematurely harsh but put simply I see little if any improvement from the Vanda disaster.
You mean the Vera disaster?
I didn't see tonight's fight, but I'd be wary of writing him off just yet. What fights seemed tough for him lately? From what I've read and seen, he's boxing a lot more cautiously, which might explain the lack of KOs recently.
With a jab and reach like his, at 25, with Steward behind him, It's too early to make a call. The Vera loss may have been just what the doctor ordered.
WayoftheCass wrote:I must admit I haven't seen the fight yet and its on after Sprott but just based on the result against an inexperienced journeyman and what i saw last time out, I really can't see Andy making any sort of impact.
The power seems to be somewhat overrated but the main concern for me with Andy is how tough fights seems to be for him now-a-days against relatively average opponents and also the fact his chin is just hanging out to dry. I think Barker and Macklin look on a different level from him and even Duddy , who looks like he to will go no further, appears to have a little more to him.
Perhaps a tad prematurely harsh but put simply I see little if any improvement from the Vanda disaster.
You mean the Vera disaster?
I didn't see tonight's fight, but I'd be wary of writing him off just yet. What fights seemed tough for him lately? From what I've read and seen, he's boxing a lot more cautiously, which might explain the lack of KOs recently.
With a jab and reach like his, at 25, with Steward behind him, It's too early to make a call. The Vera loss may have been just what the doctor ordered.
Sipos gave him a tough fight and had him wobbly at one one moment. I cant see him making much off an impact either. He stands up way to straight and gets hit by a lot of unnecessary shots, and his speed and power are average. I can not see him beating a world class fighter.
Last edited by crusader on 20 Jun 2009, 21:49, edited 1 time in total.
WayoftheCass wrote:I must admit I haven't seen the fight yet and its on after Sprott but just based on the result against an inexperienced journeyman and what i saw last time out, I really can't see Andy making any sort of impact.
The power seems to be somewhat overrated but the main concern for me with Andy is how tough fights seems to be for him now-a-days against relatively average opponents and also the fact his chin is just hanging out to dry. I think Barker and Macklin look on a different level from him and even Duddy , who looks like he to will go no further, appears to have a little more to him.
Perhaps a tad prematurely harsh but put simply I see little if any improvement from the Vanda disaster.
You mean the Vera disaster?
I didn't see tonight's fight, but I'd be wary of writing him off just yet. What fights seemed tough for him lately? From what I've read and seen, he's boxing a lot more cautiously, which might explain the lack of KOs recently.
With a jab and reach like his, at 25, with Steward behind him, It's too early to make a call. The Vera loss may have been just what the doctor ordered.
Sipos gave him a tough fight and had him wobbly at one one moment. I cant see him making much off an impact either.
Could've been a combination of Sipos being a tough opponent with a deceptive record, Lee being rusty after a long layoff and getting cut early in that fight.
WayoftheCass wrote:I must admit I haven't seen the fight yet and its on after Sprott but just based on the result against an inexperienced journeyman and what i saw last time out, I really can't see Andy making any sort of impact.
The power seems to be somewhat overrated but the main concern for me with Andy is how tough fights seems to be for him now-a-days against relatively average opponents and also the fact his chin is just hanging out to dry. I think Barker and Macklin look on a different level from him and even Duddy , who looks like he to will go no further, appears to have a little more to him.
Perhaps a tad prematurely harsh but put simply I see little if any improvement from the Vanda disaster.
You mean the Vera disaster?
I didn't see tonight's fight, but I'd be wary of writing him off just yet. What fights seemed tough for him lately? From what I've read and seen, he's boxing a lot more cautiously, which might explain the lack of KOs recently.
With a jab and reach like his, at 25, with Steward behind him, It's too early to make a call. The Vera loss may have been just what the doctor ordered.
Yeah it was Vera.
All 3 of Lee's fights since then have been against journeymen (Gibbs has a good record but is a nothing at world level) and all 3 have been titanic struggles. He is shipping as many shots as he ever did and appears to have made zero technical adjustments. I also noticed tonight that his nose looked pretty bashed up suggesting he's also taking too many shots in training.
I'm not writing Lee off at all. I'm just making a pretty reasoned assessment of his chances of making any sort of impact based on his recent performances.
crusader wrote:
Sipos gave him a tough fight and had him wobbly at one one moment. I cant see him making much off an impact either.
Could've been a combination of Sipos being a tough opponent with a deceptive record, Lee being rusty after a long layoff and getting cut early in that fight.
Did anyone see how he looked tonight?
Lee hasn't been off for that long. He fought on the Dunne world title undercard. Fedatovs was pretty wild but game. Lee deserved the win and dropped him with a nice 1-2 in the 6th but it was a tear up for the best part and Lee still holds his head straight up behind a loose guard and zero head movement. Going forward he looks impressive but is far, far too easy to hit and on the back foot he always looks in trouble. If they made Lee-Vera II tomorrow I wouldn't be very confident of a different outcome.
Last edited by WayoftheCass on 20 Jun 2009, 22:06, edited 1 time in total.
I used to have high expectations for Lee, and thought he was something special, but it goes to show that one shouldn't get too excited until a fighter has stepped up in class and faced someone who will give them a tough fight. Imo Craig McEwan has a better shot at making something happen than Lee, where as the opposite used to be the case. His biggest problem is that he sticks his chin way up in the air and makes himself an easy target.
crusader wrote:I used to have high expectations for Lee, and thought he was something special, but it goes to show that one shouldn't get too excited until a fighter has stepped up in class and faced someone who will give them a tough fight. Imo Craig McEwan has a better shot at making something happen than Lee, where as the opposite used to be the case. His biggest problem is that he sticks his chin way up in the air and makes himself an easy target.
Never seen McEwan fight but he appears to be making good progress. Andy seems far too determined to impress and almost every fight now is a war. He has a great chin but the way he holds his head up tells me that one day he's gonna get caught and go down hard. His style is so strange. So long and rangey but so determined to chase after opponents and duke it out with them. Perhaps he'd be better off with Freddie Roach or someone like that. Roach tends to work with what he's got and tries to get fighters to fight to their strengths. Manny just seems to want to mould everyone into another Tommy Hearns. Wlad and Lewis both fought with that rangey stance looking to land the straight right with Lewis being a lot more aggressive than Wlad but both ultimately being sort of diet versions of The Hitman (or sedate in the case of Wlad). Andy is trying to be a carbon copy but there is only one Tommy Hearns.
crusader wrote:
Sipos gave him a tough fight and had him wobbly at one one moment. I cant see him making much off an impact either.
Could've been a combination of Sipos being a tough opponent with a deceptive record, Lee being rusty after a long layoff and getting cut early in that fight.
Did anyone see how he looked tonight?
Lee hasn't been off for that long. He fought on the Dunne world title undercard. Fedatovs was pretty wild but game. Lee deserved the win and dropped him with a nice 1-2 in the 6th but it was a tear up for the best part and Lee still holds his head straight up behind a loose guard and zero head movement. Going forward he looks impressive but is far, far too easy to hit and on the back foot he always looks in trouble. If they made Lee-Vera II tomorrow I wouldn't be very confident of a different outcome.
He was out for twice as long as he'd normally be because of the cut he picked up in the Gibbs fight, which was the last fight of his I've seen.
I'm playing devil's advocate more than anything, simply because I hate to see young fighters written off after a loss in tough competition.
WayoftheCass wrote:I must admit I haven't seen the fight yet and its on after Sprott but just based on the result against an inexperienced journeyman and what i saw last time out, I really can't see Andy making any sort of impact.
The power seems to be somewhat overrated but the main concern for me with Andy is how tough fights seems to be for him now-a-days against relatively average opponents and also the fact his chin is just hanging out to dry. I think Barker and Macklin look on a different level from him and even Duddy , who looks like he to will go no further, appears to have a little more to him.
Perhaps a tad prematurely harsh but put simply I see little if any improvement from the Vanda disaster.
Have to say i agree with you, he doesn't look like he's improving , or a level above fringe contender.
As you say he's having tough fights against guys he should be looking good against.
Hagler2002 wrote:He is massively overrated, I thought he lost on the undercard of Dunne-Cordoba yet amazingly got the 99-91
No way did he lose to Sipos! I would have given Sipos maybe 3 rounds at best.
Lee has low confidence and shows signs of nervousness in the ring which effects his performances. He lossens up quite a bit at the tail end of a fight (he often scores knockdowns coming towards the end of a fight, he floored Gibbs with just seconds to go in the fight and last night scored a knockdown in the 6th round I believe).
When he lets his punches go and comes forward it is plain to see how much power he has in both hands.
Half his problem is mental and the other half is Manny fornicating Steward! If he could overcome the nerves and hook up with someone like Roach, Lee would be a force.
Hagler2002 wrote:He is massively overrated, I thought he lost on the undercard of Dunne-Cordoba yet amazingly got the 99-91
No way did he lose to Sipos! I would have given Sipos maybe 3 rounds at best.
A lot of press at ringside also thought he lost.
i was at the fight and it looked like close fight , but when i watched it when i got home it was clear andy won the fight comfortabley , sipos caught andy with some big punches but that dosent mean he won the fight
i was at the fight and it looked like close fight , but when i watched it when i got home it was clear andy won the fight comfortabley , sipos caught andy with some big punches but that dosent mean he won the fight
All 3 of Lee's fights since then have been against journeymen (Gibbs has a good record but is a nothing at world level) and all 3 have been titanic struggles
Lee boxed the ears off Gibbs, I was in Limerick University and Lee was always in control.
He also won the Sipos fight hands down. He is very talented but needs to get away from Manny.
PS: I have never seen a fighter with as impressive a pysique as Gibbs, whetehr it's 'genuine' or not. Check it out.
All 3 of Lee's fights since then have been against journeymen (Gibbs has a good record but is a nothing at world level) and all 3 have been titanic struggles
Lee boxed the ears off Gibbs, I was in Limerick University and Lee was always in control.
He also won the Sipos fight hands down. He is very talented but needs to get away from Manny.
PS: I have never seen a fighter with as impressive a pysique as Gibbs, whetehr it's 'genuine' or not. Check it out.
Well said Mr Creed! People are too quick to write off fighters like Lee.
As for Gibbs physique, did you see on the fight build up he was being interviewed and he started going on about "his shield" which I presume were his abs! He took off his t-shirt up and started pointing to his ab muscles saying, "my shield baby, check out my shield, it's like iron". His sheild didn't do him much good that night! Ah no really, he is in shape there's no doubt about that.
He was poor on Saturday wasnt he. Took some big punches in the exchanges, a bigger puncher wouldve downed him. He looked quite bashed up towards the end.... no way should he have taken so many shots from the Latvian champion. Surely with his physique, tutorlidge and background he should be boxing off the jab a lot more, trying to avoid daft nip tuck contests with journeyen.
Wales wrote:He was poor on Saturday wasnt he. Took some big punches in the exchanges, a bigger puncher wouldve downed him. He looked quite bashed up towards the end.... no way should he have taken so many shots from the Latvian champion. Surely with his physique, tutorlidge and background he should be boxing off the jab a lot more, trying to avoid daft nip tuck contests with journeyen.
He is going off the rails lately, taking way to many shots, not using the tools at his disposal. I can only hope he will get himself a trainer who will steer him back on course cos Manny Steward does not seem to be the right trainer for him.
A few positives are, he is showing he has a good chin and when he does get going he still looks strong and powerful.
His defense is fvcking terrible though, it has to be said.
Lee could beat Macklin imo, but Barker would make him look foolish before KOing him. Duddy vs Lee would be interesting but I'd expect Lee to beat him. Degale would destroy Lee but I think Lee would easily outbox Sutherland. He did so in the amatuers I believe. Sutherland may have improved though, but I still think he will get found out against a boxer soon enough. His talk to fighting like B-Hop is a bit hilarious. Degale should be the one adopting B-Hop styles
lirva wrote:Lee could beat Macklin imo, but Barker would make him look foolish before KOing him. Duddy vs Lee would be interesting but I'd expect Lee to beat him. Degale would destroy Lee but I think Lee would easily outbox Sutherland. He did so in the amatuers I believe. Sutherland may have improved though, but I still think he will get found out against a boxer soon enough. His talk to fighting like B-Hop is a bit hilarious. Degale should be the one adopting B-Hop styles
If Macklin perfroms the way he did against Moore and in particular like he did last time then I think he'd massacre Lee based on the way Andy is performing at the moment.
DeGale's only had 2 fights and has hardly looked like the second coming. Lets see where he is after 19 fights before we attribute such lofty praise to him.
All 3 of Lee's fights since then have been against journeymen (Gibbs has a good record but is a nothing at world level) and all 3 have been titanic struggles
Lee boxed the ears off Gibbs, I was in Limerick University and Lee was always in control.
He also won the Sipos fight hands down. He is very talented but needs to get away from Manny.
PS: I have never seen a fighter with as impressive a pysique as Gibbs, whetehr it's 'genuine' or not. Check it out.
Well said Mr Creed! People are too quick to write off fighters like Lee.
As for Gibbs physique, did you see on the fight build up he was being interviewed and he started going on about "his shield" which I presume were his abs! He took off his t-shirt up and started pointing to his ab muscles saying, "my shield baby, check out my shield, it's like iron". His sheild didn't do him much good that night! Ah no really, he is in shape there's no doubt about that.
I don't think anyone in the thread has written him off. The FACT is as you yourself went on to note he's not progressing and the sh!t that Manny is coming out with is just embarrassing. Saying he's a future hall of famer. Way to put pressure on the kid. My mate stateside also was telling me Steward was rooting for Clottey from round 1 onwards 2 weekends ago. Some analyst of a fight he is.
Way to put pressure on the kid. My mate stateside also was telling me Steward was rooting for Clottey from round 1 onwards 2 weekends ago. Some analyst of a fight he is. 