Classic American West Coast Boxing

[bennie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-Ipn_Y3iNM

Hearns/Duran

Rog, this fight has always been painful for me to watch. This and Duran v Leonard II are difficult for me. Hearns was at the top of his game that night. This is the fight that convinced Hearns and his people that they could beat Marvin Hagler and maybe on another night he might have beaten him but on the night they fought, Hagler was too much for Hearns plus he was spurred on by the cut. he was afraid the fight might be stopped and it might have. He took matters into his own hands and gave us a classic, both of them did.

Even with his losses and the flaws in his career Roberto Duran is my favorite fighter. Leonard, Hagler and Hearns got him past his best. Duran, a natural lightweight took on the Welters and Middleweights and did pretty damned good all things considered. As far as I'm concerned he's right there with Robinson as the greatest fighter that ever lived. As a lightweight maybe he was the very best. As good as Manny Paquiao seems to be, there is no Leonard, Hagler or Hearns on his resume or in his future. Duran was special.

Randy

Call me wacko but I still think Duran took this fight to make up for quitting against Leonard (and to get well-paid in the process in his last fight). He fell on his shield and could roam the streets of Panama without "quitter" mutters from every doorway, even after Moore and Hagler. He looked terrible - unbalanced, wide open - just terrible. Look how low his hands are at the final right hand. It is almost like he's thinking, "Come on Tommy, get it over with." He literally drops them
One thing is for sure, Duran had already made his mind up to retire, lose or lose. Duran genuinely quit after this (in 1984) and only came back in 1986 because Felicidad had spent all his money.

[bennie]

Norman Goins reminds me of Sammy Nesmith: he was a little erratic but when he was firing he was firing.

I remember Sammy Nesmith well Bennie.
Your description of him is right on. He could bang. He was popular in the midwest for awhile there.
He and I even have a common opponent Terrence Wright. He belted him out in 5 rounds. I fought a draw with him.
The guys record was not good but I had a toughtime. Makes me feel a little better that he fought such tough guys before me. He fought Gerald McClellan right before we fought also.
Funny how we can find silver linings in boxing.

Wright also went five with Dan Schommer, an unbeaten fighter who was robbed blind against Chris Eubank. The aftermath speaks for itself...

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

[Expug]

Thanks Bennie.
I dont ever like whining or making excuses for any result of any fight Ive ever had.
Whatever happens , its my fault whether it was boxing , judo , wrestling etc.
The thing about that fight was, I was working as a bakery truck driver at the time.
The day of the fight, I ran my route.40 or so stops in downtown Chicago, went straight to the Park West arena, changed into my gear and fought. Ridiculous, I should have known better.
4th round I came on pretty good and hurt him a little. Oh well, its all fun.

[dagosd2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-Ipn_Y3iNM

Hearns/Duran

Rog, this fight has always been painful for me to watch. This and Duran v Leonard II are difficult for me. Hearns was at the top of his game that night. This is the fight that convinced Hearns and his people that they could beat Marvin Hagler and maybe on another night he might have beaten him but on the night they fought, Hagler was too much for Hearns plus he was spurred on by the cut. he was afraid the fight might be stopped and it might have. He took matters into his own hands and gave us a classic, both of them did.

Even with his losses and the flaws in his career Roberto Duran is my favorite fighter. Leonard, Hagler and Hearns got him past his best. Duran, a natural lightweight took on the Welters and Middleweights and did pretty damned good all things considered. As far as I'm concerned he's right there with Robinson as the greatest fighter that ever lived. As a lightweight maybe he was the very best. As good as Manny Paquiao seems to be, there is no Leonard, Hagler or Hearns on his resume or in his future. Duran was special.

Randy

Call me wacko but I still think Duran took this fight to make up for quitting against Leonard (and to get well-paid in the process in his last fight). He fell on his shield and could roam the streets of Panama without "quitter" mutters from every doorway, even after Moore and Hagler. He looked terrible - unbalanced, wide open - just terrible. Look how low his hands are at the final right hand. It is almost like he's thinking, "Come on Tommy, get it over with." He literally drops them
One thing is for sure, Duran had already made his mind up to retire, lose or lose. Duran genuinely quit after this (in 1984) and only came back in 1986 because Felicidad had spent all his money.

Bennie
One of Duran's fights that doesn't come up much in conversation is his tiff with Pipino Cuevas. Cuevas had been blasted out by Hearns(as later would Roberto),but Mexican fans felt that everything would be back to normal with a win over Duran. I remember the tag line,"Somebody's Gonna' Fall".
Well,it wasn't much of a fight. Cuevas was written off as being an indestructible force.

Cuevas's rep in Mexico when he was Champ was that you'd have to kill him to beat him. There were songs made up about him. "Pipino Es Mi Campeon." The story of his head crashing through the car windshield and Pipino just walking away like nothing had happened.Some said he could even beat Ali.

While Duran was loud,Pipino was poker faced and quiet. Mexicans loved this trait with one of their "killers". But after Duran,Cuevas could never reload. He's hardly mentioned among the aficianados.

Tommy Hearns was bad news for the Latino macho types. Not only did he beat them,but won in a fashion that made some wonder if these guys were as tough as they were made out to be.

Funny,many of the good Black fighters I think looked at Tommy as being a bit fragile. Leonard,Hagler,Barkley,and even Kinchen pounded him pretty good. It was Tommy who was on rubber legs and going through the ropes.

[raylawpc]

Rog, this fight has always been painful for me to watch. This and Duran v Leonard II are difficult for me. Hearns was at the top of his game that night. This is the fight that convinced Hearns and his people that they could beat Marvin Hagler and maybe on another night he might have beaten him but on the night they fought, Hagler was too much for Hearns plus he was spurred on by the cut. he was afraid the fight might be stopped and it might have. He took matters into his own hands and gave us a classic, both of them did.

Even with his losses and the flaws in his career Roberto Duran is my favorite fighter. Leonard, Hagler and Hearns got him past his best. Duran, a natural lightweight took on the Welters and Middleweights and did pretty damned good all things considered. As far as I'm concerned he's right there with Robinson as the greatest fighter that ever lived. As a lightweight maybe he was the very best. As good as Manny Paquiao seems to be, there is no Leonard, Hagler or Hearns on his resume or in his future. Duran was special.

Randy

Call me wacko but I still think Duran took this fight to make up for quitting against Leonard (and to get well-paid in the process in his last fight). He fell on his shield and could roam the streets of Panama without "quitter" mutters from every doorway, even after Moore and Hagler. He looked terrible - unbalanced, wide open - just terrible. Look how low his hands are at the final right hand. It is almost like he's thinking, "Come on Tommy, get it over with." He literally drops them
One thing is for sure, Duran had already made his mind up to retire, lose or lose. Duran genuinely quit after this (in 1984) and only came back in 1986 because Felicidad had spent all his money.

Bennie
One of Duran's fights that doesn't come up much in conversation is his tiff with Pipino Cuevas. Cuevas had been blasted out by Hearns(as later would Roberto),but Mexican fans felt that everything would be back to normal with a win over Duran. I remember the tag line,"Somebody's Gonna' Fall".
Well,it wasn't much of a fight. Cuevas was written off as being an indestructible force.

Cuevas's rep in Mexico when he was Champ was that you'd have to kill him to beat him. There were songs made up about him. "Pipino Es Mi Campeon." The story of his head crashing through the car windshield and Pipino just walking away like nothing had happened.Some said he could even beat Ali.

While Duran was loud,Pipino was poker faced and quiet. Mexicans loved this trait with one of their "killers". But after Duran,Cuevas could never reload. He's hardly mentioned among the aficianados.

Tommy Hearns was bad news for the Latino macho types. Not only did he beat them,but won in a fashion that made some wonder if these guys were as tough as they were made out to be.

Funny,many of the good Black fighters I think looked at Tommy as being a bit fragile. Leonard,Hagler,Barkley,and even Kinchen pounded him pretty good. It was Tommy who was on rubber legs and going through the ropes.

Personally, I felt that Cuevas failed to re-load after the Hearns fight. He lost a surprise decision to Roger Stafford, whom he would have iced with no problem pre-Hearns. Too bad. I remember watching the Ranzany fight and I was very impressed. Ranzany was one tough fellow, and Cuevas just took him apart.

[Boxingnut]

[dagosd2000]

YOU DON"T WANT TO BE TOO TOUGH

We've had some good exchanges about fighters with reputations as being indesructible. Whether they add to this mystic with their propaganda or not,when the time comes to pin a defeat in the loss column,the aftermath can be devastating.I'm talking about the fighters who ring up row after row of KO's. The Tysons and Durans were mouthy. Cuevas,"Pajarito" Moreno,Olivares,and Zarate were quiet types. I remember two big heavyweights during my era with dynamite in each hand. Jose Urtain and Mac Foster.

When guys like the above mentioned finally lose,it's dramatic. How can a "killer" be killed? It's not supposed to happen. Often the fear of climbing into the ring with the KO artist is enough to un nerve an opponent. Sonny Liston probably defeated more men before the sound of the first gong than any heavyweight in history.

If Ray Robinson got outpointed or Ali didn't get his hand raised it didn't measure on the Richter Scale. But to see Big George roll down to the canvas in Zaire...well you could feel the shaking all the way across the ocean.

[Boxingnut]

[Boxingnut]

[Boxingnut]

[Boxingnut]

[Boxingnut]

[Boxingnut]

[Boxingnut]

[Rick Farris]

Rob . . .

Thanks for this great article on the Olympic.
Brings back a lot of special memories for many of us here.

Several of the most important moments in my life took place in that arena.
Today, it's gone as we knew it, but it shall always have a place in my heart.


-Rick Farris

[Boxingnut]

Rob . . .

Thanks for this great article on the Olympic.
Brings back a lot of special memories for many of us here.
I always appreciated having the Olympic close by, and all the greats I saw there.
Several of the most important moments in my life took place in that arena.
Today it's gone as we knew it, but it shall always live on within me.


-Rick Farris

No problem for the articles, I knew they existed, just tough to find!! Is the Olympic no longer standing Rick? Or is it just not used as a boxing venue.

[Rick Farris]

Bennie
One of Duran's fights that doesn't come up much in conversation is his tiff with Pipino Cuevas. Cuevas had been blasted out by Hearns(as later would Roberto),but Mexican fans felt that everything would be back to normal with a win over Duran. I remember the tag line,"Somebody's Gonna' Fall".
Well,it wasn't much of a fight. Cuevas was written off as being an indestructible force.

Cuevas's rep in Mexico when he was Champ was that you'd have to kill him to beat him. There were songs made up about him. "Pipino Es Mi Campeon." The story of his head crashing through the car windshield and Pipino just walking away like nothing had happened.Some said he could even beat Ali.

While Duran was loud,Pipino was poker faced and quiet. Mexicans loved this trait with one of their "killers". But after Duran,Cuevas could never reload. He's hardly mentioned among the aficianados.

Tommy Hearns was bad news for the Latino macho types. Not only did he beat them,but won in a fashion that made some wonder if these guys were as tough as they were made out to be.

Funny,many of the good Black fighters I think looked at Tommy as being a bit fragile. Leonard,Hagler,Barkley,and even Kinchen pounded him pretty good. It was Tommy who was on rubber legs and going through the ropes.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
He'd had enough . . .

The happpiest moment of Pipino Cuevas' career came the moment the ref stepped in and called his fight with Duran over. I've watched replays of that whipping more than a hundred times over the years. I used to stop-action the tape as Duran's blows would rattle every bone in Pipino's body. Personally, I think Hearns took a lot out of Cuevas. Following up with a beating from Duran pretty much gelded him for good. Look as the ref stops the fight. Cuevas recation is too shake his head "no-no" as if he wanted to continue. He was glad the beating was over. Cuevas had heavy hands but he was in with more than a champion when he faced Duran. I believe it was a few weeks later that Duran continued on by handing Davey Moore a career ruining beating, as well. Duran battered Moore on his way to claiming the Jr. Middle title.

A week before the Cuevas fight, I'd visit a packed Main Street Gym where Duran would be boxing for his upcoming fight with Cuevas. His sparring partner was an 18-year-old Mexican named Kid Dynamite. The Kid's father was his in his corner. Duran beat Dynamite for three rounds. The kid was hurt pretty bad, although maintaining his feet all three rounds. Ten years earlier, in that very same ring, Duran had floored me in the opening round of a sparring session. As I watched him slam Kid Dynamite, I could almost feel Duran's Hands of Stone a decade later.

After the workout, Duran says something in Spanish, it insulted Kid Dynamite. The father jumps into the ring and and takes a shot at Duran. He misses, and Duran then knocks out both the father and the son. There was more to it than that, but you get the idea.
It was crazy.


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Rob . . .

Thanks for this great article on the Olympic.
Brings back a lot of special memories for many of us here.
I always appreciated having the Olympic close by, and all the greats I saw there.
Several of the most important moments in my life took place in that arena.
Today it's gone as we knew it, but it shall always live on within me.


-Rick Farris

No problem for the articles, I knew they existed, just tough to find!! Is the Olympic no longer standing Rick? Or is it just not used as a boxing venue.

Rob . . .

The Olympic is still standing, however, today it is a Korean Church.
Earlier in this thread, Frank posted a current photo. Same old face, just different make-up.
The area has lost it's magic. And on thursday nights during the 60's & 70's, I remember the buzz out front on fight night.
The corner of 18th & grand Ave. in downtown L.A. would be alive, there was an energy.
Cars moved slowly in front, waiting to enter the parking lot. The sidewalks were full of people, holding tickets, program venders barking out, "Get you lucky number program here, win a ticket to next weeks fights". You'd see old fighters, broken down foggies sipping from a flask, money changing hands, lots of cigar smoke, the fight crowd. When you'd step inside the first thing you'd see is a wall of legendary photos, more than fifty years of history framed on the wall. Then when you'd step into the arena and . . . never mind, I'll stop here.
But it was a special time for me.


-Rick

[Rick Farris]

The Amateurs & the Olympic

I fought at the Olympic plenty of times as an amateur, as did Frank Baltazar and his sons.
In the late 60's and early 70's, Aileen Eaton added a couple amateur bouts to open her thursday night professional cards.
Often the Olympic would host the Golden Gloves or Junior Golden Gloves championship bouts.

However, I must call on our friend Hap to clarify and perhaps expand on this.

Hap, it was my understanding that Art & Babe Martell were the most successful promoters of amateur boxing in Los Angeles.
I'm aware that prior to WW2, they promoted successfully at Jeffries Barn.
I heard they next began promoting at the much larger Olympic, and had a successful amateur program going on there before moving over the the 97th St. Arena off of Main Street.

A 10,000+ seat Arena would be pretty hard to fill for weekly amateur shows, but I heard that the Martells came up with an ingenious idea that provided tickets to company's that would buy advertising in their weekly program. Seats were filled, amateur boxing was alive in L.A.
I've talked a bit with Lou Filippo about the Martel's, whom he fought for back in the 40's.


-Rick Farris

[dagosd2000]

Bennie
One of Duran's fights that doesn't come up much in conversation is his tiff with Pipino Cuevas. Cuevas had been blasted out by Hearns(as later would Roberto),but Mexican fans felt that everything would be back to normal with a win over Duran. I remember the tag line,"Somebody's Gonna' Fall".
Well,it wasn't much of a fight. Cuevas was written off as being an indestructible force.

Cuevas's rep in Mexico when he was Champ was that you'd have to kill him to beat him. There were songs made up about him. "Pipino Es Mi Campeon." The story of his head crashing through the car windshield and Pipino just walking away like nothing had happened.Some said he could even beat Ali.

While Duran was loud,Pipino was poker faced and quiet. Mexicans loved this trait with one of their "killers". But after Duran,Cuevas could never reload. He's hardly mentioned among the aficianados.

Tommy Hearns was bad news for the Latino macho types. Not only did he beat them,but won in a fashion that made some wonder if these guys were as tough as they were made out to be.

Funny,many of the good Black fighters I think looked at Tommy as being a bit fragile. Leonard,Hagler,Barkley,and even Kinchen pounded him pretty good. It was Tommy who was on rubber legs and going through the ropes.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
He'd had enough . . .

The happpiest moment of Pipino Cuevas' career came the moment the ref stepped in and called his fight with Duran over. I've watched replays of that whipping more than a hundred times over the years. I used to stop-action the tape as Duran's blows would rattle every bone in Pipino's body. Personally, I think Hearns took a lot out of Cuevas. Following up with a beating from Duran pretty much gelded him for good. Look as the ref stops the fight. Cuevas recation is too shake his head "no-no" as if he wanted to continue. He was glad the beating was over. Cuevas had heavy hands but he was in with more than a champion when he faced Duran. I believe it was a few weeks later that Duran continued on by handing Davey Moore a career ruining beating, as well. Duran battered Moore on his way to claiming the Jr. Middle title.

A week before the Cuevas fight, I'd visit a packed Main Street Gym where Duran would be boxing for his upcoming fight with Cuevas. His sparring partner was an 18-year-old Mexican named Kid Dynamite. The Kid's father was his in his corner. Duran beat Dynamite for three rounds. The kid was hurt pretty bad, although maintaining his feet all three rounds. Ten years earlier, in that very same ring, Duran had floored me in the opening round of a sparring session. As I watched him slam Kid Dynamite, I could almost feel Duran's Hands of Stone a decade later.

After the workout, Duran says something in Spanish, it insulted Kid Dynamite. The father jumps into the ring and and takes a shot at Duran. He misses, and Duran then knocks out both the father and the son. There was more to it than that, but you get the idea.
It was crazy.


-Rick Farris

Rob
I second that on the articles about the Olympic.great stuff.

Rick
That story on Duran is priceless

[dagosd2000]

FROM THE HEART

[Rick Farris]

FROM THE HEART

Roger, I'm a fan of anything you do.
I believe these paintings are special.

Your recent "Josephine", from last week, actually breathes.


-Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

Rob . . .

Thanks for this great article on the Olympic.
Brings back a lot of special memories for many of us here.
I always appreciated having the Olympic close by, and all the greats I saw there.
Several of the most important moments in my life took place in that arena.
Today it's gone as we knew it, but it shall always live on within me.


-Rick Farris

No problem for the articles, I knew they existed, just tough to find!! Is the Olympic no longer standing Rick? Or is it just not used as a boxing venue.

Rob . . .

The Olympic is still standing, however, today it is a Korean Church.
Earlier in this thread, Frank posted a current photo. Same old face, just different make-up.
The area has lost it's magic. And on thursday nights during the 60's & 70's, I remember the buzz out front on fight night.
The corner of 18th & grand Ave. in downtown L.A. would be alive, there was an energy.
Cars moved slowly in front, waiting to enter the parking lot. The sidewalks were full of people, holding tickets, program venders barking out, "Get you lucky number program here, win a ticket to next weeks fights". You'd see old fighters, broken down foggies sipping from a flask, money changing hands, lots of cigar smoke, the fight crowd. When you'd step inside the first thing you'd see is a wall of legendary photos, more than fifty years of history framed on the wall. Then when you'd step into the arena and . . . never mind, I'll stop here.
But it was a special time for me.


-Rick

Rick...When I think of the Olympic and what it once was, I want to cry a tear of saddens, but then I let my mind go back to those days gone by, and I'm back in the 1950's-60s, 1970s when my boys turned pro, into the early 1980s and a smile come to my face and I say "Yes, I was there!"

[dagosd2000]

The latest great grand kid just came over for a beer. His name is Eric. 6 months.

[kikibalt]

Rob...Thanks so much for that journey down memory-lane.