Obscure scoring question. Lennox Lewis v Ocasio

[DavidPayne]

An 8 round fight which referee Larry O'Connell scored 80-77.

Is that a record for 10-10 rounds scored. Am I missing something but must Larry have awarded 5 even rounds?

Why was I looking so deeply, I noticed it was 5 years since Lennox retired on Monday and 20 since he first fought at the weekend.

Its a slow news day in Gotham.

Can anyone top 5 x 10-10 rounds? In an 8 round contest too!!!

[ERIC GUY]

It was Lennox's first 8 rounder, he was not happy about his performance, I had to watch it twice with him at my place zzzzzzzzzzz

[bobmee]

The king of the fence sitters was a celebrated Luxembourg customs officer whose name I would have to look up... he scored all 12 rounds even in a Duke McKenzie European title fight in Italy... he explained that in his opinion nobody had dominated any round... even though Duke scored a knockdown in one of them. Pretty sure it was against Giampiero Pinna but could be wrong.

Another judge scored 10 rounds even out of 12 when Billy Hardy lost a majority decision in another European title fight against Vincenzo Belcastro in Italy... Belcastro won 120-118 on that card.

At least in those glorious days the idiots admitted they didn't know what was happening ... now some of them (allegedly) just guess 10-9 one way if they don't know, then guess 10-9 the other way next time to even it up (allegedly).

[DavidPayne]

Classic 120-118!

[jamesmcdonnell]

I think that a judge should score as many 10-10 rounds as they see fit. It makes more sense of the stupid scoring system we have in boxing.

[bennie]

Jaws knew how to test the the youngsters. He nearly beat Ray Mercer on the Duran-Leonard III undercard.

[ERIC GUY]

Yeah I was there that night, 1st boxing show at the Mirage, Me, Nigel, and Ambrose!!
happy days.....

[bennie]

Yeah I was there that night, 1st boxing show at the Mirage, Me, Nigel, and Ambrose!!
happy days.....

Disappointing night (from CCTV). The slick-boxing Leonard knew how to beat Duran - just run and pop. He also manipulated a huge pre-fight edge (as ever) by making the fight at super-middleweight.
Duran was a middleweight.

[overhand_right]

Ocasio was a quality!

He battered Jess Harding. Landed a good few shots on Lennox as i recall.

[Autobarn]

Ossie Ocasio?

Battered by Holyfield. Very negative performance, in what was one of the bigger cruiserweight bouts.

A young Ocasio was thrown in way over his head v Larry Holmes, wasn't he?

[wouter]

An 8 round fight which referee Larry O'Connell scored 80-77.

Is that a record for 10-10 rounds scored. Am I missing something but must Larry have awarded 5 even rounds?

Why was I looking so deeply, I noticed it was 5 years since Lennox retired on Monday and 20 since he first fought at the weekend.

Its a slow news day in Gotham.

Can anyone top 5 x 10-10 rounds? In an 8 round contest too!!!

I think British fights were scored by the 1/2 point system back then. So the scoring nowadays would be 80-74.

[Carbo]

The king of the fence sitters was a celebrated Luxembourg customs officer whose name I would have to look up... he scored all 12 rounds even in a Duke McKenzie European title fight in Italy... he explained that in his opinion nobody had dominated any round... even though Duke scored a knockdown in one of them. Pretty sure it was against Giampiero Pinna but could be wrong.

Another judge scored 10 rounds even out of 12 when Billy Hardy lost a majority decision in another European title fight against Vincenzo Belcastro in Italy... Belcastro won 120-118 on that card.

At least in those glorious days the idiots admitted they didn't know what was happening ... now some of them (allegedly) just guess 10-9 one way if they don't know, then guess 10-9 the other way next time to even it up (allegedly).

120-118! That's the funniest thing I've read here in ages. Well, since K-G went quiet again.

Can you imagine the look on Hardy's face when he heard "and judge XXX has the fight 120-118... one eighteen is that right??... oh, well, fcuk it.... 120-118 for the still bantamweight champion of Europe..."

That's a real bummer.

Still, serves him right for being a mackem.

[TerribleTerry]

The king of the fence sitters was a celebrated Luxembourg customs officer whose name I would have to look up... he scored all 12 rounds even in a Duke McKenzie European title fight in Italy... he explained that in his opinion nobody had dominated any round... even though Duke scored a knockdown in one of them. Pretty sure it was against Giampiero Pinna but could be wrong.

Another judge scored 10 rounds even out of 12 when Billy Hardy lost a majority decision in another European title fight against Vincenzo Belcastro in Italy... Belcastro won 120-118 on that card.

At least in those glorious days the idiots admitted they didn't know what was happening ... now some of them (allegedly) just guess 10-9 one way if they don't know, then guess 10-9 the other way next time to even it up (allegedly).

Great post Bob - that fountain of knowledge runs deep.

[TerribleTerry]

An 8 round fight which referee Larry O'Connell scored 80-77.

Is that a record for 10-10 rounds scored. Am I missing something but must Larry have awarded 5 even rounds?

Why was I looking so deeply, I noticed it was 5 years since Lennox retired on Monday and 20 since he first fought at the weekend.

Its a slow news day in Gotham.

Can anyone top 5 x 10-10 rounds? In an 8 round contest too!!!

I think British fights were scored by the 1/2 point system back then. So the scoring nowadays would be 80-74.

Good point - it wasn't so long ago that we had that weird/annoying 1/2 point system in place..

[oliverfennell]

An 8 round fight which referee Larry O'Connell scored 80-77.

Is that a record for 10-10 rounds scored. Am I missing something but must Larry have awarded 5 even rounds?

Why was I looking so deeply, I noticed it was 5 years since Lennox retired on Monday and 20 since he first fought at the weekend.

Its a slow news day in Gotham.

Can anyone top 5 x 10-10 rounds? In an 8 round contest too!!!

I think British fights were scored by the 1/2 point system back then. So the scoring nowadays would be 80-74.

Good point - it wasn't so long ago that we had that weird/annoying 1/2 point system in place..

Yes, this is exactly the right answer. And back in the 60s and part of the 70s, there were quarter-point rounds.

[crusader]

I think that a judge should score as many 10-10 rounds as they see fit. It makes more sense of the stupid scoring system we have in boxing.

Yes I agree. There are so many rounds that are really feeling out rounds or just three minutes of neither guy asserting themselves. I don't think judges should force themselves to score it for one guy when there was no clear winner.

[Mensa07]

I think that a judge should score as many 10-10 rounds as they see fit. It makes more sense of the stupid scoring system we have in boxing.

Don't know what so many people have against even rounds to be honest, I make full use of them if I'm doing myself a little scorecard. To me a fighter has to clearly produce the better boxing to take a 10-9, if its a close round I don't lean towards the champ or whoevers my favourite of the two, as I suspect many people do, it goes down as a 10-10.

Also, I don't know if this is common practice but I (mentally) break each round up into 3x1 mins, so fighter A can win the first two and fighter B won't be able to steal the round with a final 30second flurry. Or, the first two x1mins could be close (drawn) and either fighter could legitimately 'steal' the round with a good final minutes' boxing. etc etc.

[bennie]

One could write a book about obscure boxing (well, Bob could). 'Irish' Micky Ward picked up a 10-7 round in the ninth round of his first classic with Arturo Gatti. Ward scored only one knockdown in the round (a left hook to the body). Gatti came back well from the mid-round knockdown and the judge involved, Dick Flaherty, hailed from Micky's home state of Massachusetts.
A 10-8 round would have made the fight a deserving draw.
Alfredo Escalera's gift over Tyrone Everett in 1976 was one of the biggest scandals of the 1970s. Escalera was the defending champ but the slick Everett (another Pernell Whitaker) was in his hometown of Philadelphia and looked to have won by a mile - but even the Philadelphia judge scored in Escalera's favour. Wilfred Benitez's controversial decision over Bruce Curry a year later in Madison Square Garden also took place under the old 'rounds' scoring system. Curry floored Benitez three times (sending Wilfred sprawling through the ropes in one) but could only be given the round as a reward while Benitez was given more rounds by merely edging them as he was basically running for his life.
An obvious outcry came after Pernell Whitaker and Julio Cesar Chavez clashed in 1993. Chavez was 87-0 and fighting in front of 60,000 adoring fans in San Antonio. Two of the judges sat on the fence with scores of 115-115.

[Autobarn]

I'm a bit mixed with even rounds.

It seems well out of order to have lots of even rounds.

It isn't that hard to "split" the work and decide who did better.

In a 12 round fight, I don't mind one even round, because 2 evenly matched fighters could win 6 rds each and have a tie. If one round is too hard to seperrate them, one guy ends up winning by, say, 6-5-1 in rounds and you have a winner.

[mickey1975]

it was under the half point system,which we had until the early nineties.lewis won six rounds and two were scored even

[hitman_hatton1]

didn't 1 judge in leonard-duran 1 score 10 even rds.

[hitman_hatton1]

It was Lennox's first 8 rounder, he was not happy about his performance, I had to watch it twice with him at my place zzzzzzzzzzz

yeah probably the most boring fight in lewis career that one. :>

[bobmee]

didn't 1 judge in leonard-duran 1 score 10 even rds.
**********

This is true. Scorecards for that one were 145-144 Harry Gibbs , 146-144 Raymond Baldeyrou and a weird 148-147 from Angelo Poletti... assuming nobody gave a 10-8 round, and I can't remember any reason why they would have done, that's Gibbs: 6-5 with 4 even, Baldeyrou 6-4 with 5 even and Poletti 3-2 with 10 even... wouldn't happen now. 19 rounds even out of 45.

The earlier post about Hagler-Leonard wasn't right, though. If you score even rounds in Vegas you get a one-way ticket to Utah.

I was surprised to see, while looking up the first Leonard-Duran fight, that the rematch was very close after 7 rounds. The general perception has become that Leonard toyed with Duran, but the scores were 68-66 twice and 67-66.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes, I spoke to a prominent Vegas judge who had written an article on fightnews about why there shouldn't be 10-10 rounds.

When I emailed him privately, he said the same thing as you Bob, that if he was to start liberally sprinkling his scorecards with 10-10 rounds, he'd soon find himself up in front of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, and would be banned from covering star fights. He actually agreed with me that more 10-10 rounds should be used.

[Autobarn]

didn't 1 judge in leonard-duran 1 score 10 even rds.
**********

This is true. Scorecards for that one were 145-144 Harry Gibbs , 146-144 Raymond Baldeyrou and a weird 148-147 from Angelo Poletti... assuming nobody gave a 10-8 round, and I can't remember any reason why they would have done, that's Gibbs: 6-5 with 4 even, Baldeyrou 6-4 with 5 even and Poletti 3-2 with 10 even... wouldn't happen now. 19 rounds even out of 45.

The earlier post about Hagler-Leonard wasn't right, though. If you score even rounds in Vegas you get a one-way ticket to Utah.

I was surprised to see, while looking up the first Leonard-Duran fight, that the rematch was very close after 7 rounds. The general perception has become that Leonard toyed with Duran, but the scores were 68-66 twice and 67-66.

yes, i agree there. it was very nip and tuck. leonard was moving, and shoeshining. but so much of it was out of range - and he was moving away as he was throwing the shots. it's like he was fighting a guy who was standing slightly in front of duran. duran seemed baffled at this tactic, which i took as very negative from leonard. my take is duran wasn't outclassed. but that roberto was frustrated, pissed off and not in great shape and that he finally said to himself "eff it, this is nonsense."

i have never seen it as a leonard masterclass.