Canizales HOF induction

[Autobarn]

Thoughts on former bantam champ (16 defenses) Orlando Canizales getting into the Hall of Fame?

http://www.ringtv.com/blog/729/canizale ... s_overdue/

Was Canizales' "call to the hall overdue", or was it right to overlook him due to uninspired challengers, close calls, etc?

I felt he could box beautifully, he had a way of ziging in range, punching and zagging out of range before the opponent could hit him. But IMO his opponents became wise to his style, would frustrate him, give him considerable problems. Classic 1st fight with Billy Hardy away from home.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I wouldn't call his situation overdue, but he's what I'd class as a fair HOF. No complaints here. Canizales could indeed box something beautiful, &, while he had faults he never truly ironed out of his game, he was a stylish fighter with most of the right moves, as evidenced (in part) by his long championship tenure.

[Autobarn]

when i got a tape of canizales fights a while ago, i appreciated his excellent offensive skills. but he was a very nervous champion, and he didn't seem to dominate that many of his opponents.

16 defenses very impressive, but aren't 2 of them considered controversial wins?

Also, losing to his 2 best opponents is a bit of a mark against him (Vazquez, Junior Jones).

But he did score some excellent KOs, had a great left hook downstairs, and had a memorable fight away from home with Billy Hardy 1st fight).

[Counter-puncher]

i think he has a better HOF claim than Barry McGuigan. ha, every time anyone questions anyone's HOF credentials, it's 2/1 that Barry's name comes up.....

[Autobarn]

what were Canizales' best moments? What was his finest hour?

i like his performances in the 2 seabrooks and the 2 hardy fights, most of all. he did some great work in those fights.

someone tell me if i'm wrong - i'd be glad to admit so - but all the rest seemed to be padding, really.

[Counter-puncher]

what were Canizales' best moments? What was his finest hour?

i like his performances in the 2 seabrooks and the 2 hardy fights, most of all. he did some great work in those fights.

someone tell me if i'm wrong - i'd be glad to admit so - but all the rest seemed to be padding, really.

i think it know what you mean, mostly B/C level fighters for world level....

eff it, he was a very good-looking fighter skillswise at his peak esp. offensively as you say. worked angles and both hands and up/down beautifully

[Autobarn]

i think it's possible he fought down to opponents as calzaghe did v ashira, salem, jiminez and giminez.

i do reckon that rafael marquez was probably a better bantam - knockouts of tim austin and mark johnson help - and mabuza was much more solid than many of canizales' foes. obviously, marquez picked up a belt when he moved up to super bantam, but losing the 2 rematches to Israel Vazquez. Whereas Orlando moved up and lost his big 2 at 122, Wilfredo Vazquez and Junior Jones.

[giacomino]

HIs fights with Seabrooks and Hardy were great fun to watch. Against Seabrooks both fights were classic examples of a good boxer/sharp puncher breaking down an opponent. He also had a great fight with an 18-year-old Clarence "Bones" Adams, who went on to win a super bantamweight title (close fight before 11th round KO win by Canizales). I remember the Canizales v Paul Gonzales fight was hyped because Gonzales was an Olympic gold-medalist with a great story. But Gonzales didn't have a punch and it wasn't much of fight. I always thought Canizales waited too long to move up and that he was on his way down when he fought Vazquez and Jones. That showed in his last bantamweight defense, when he was awarded a questionable decision against Sergio Reyes. He looked in that fight like he's slowed down, even though he was only 28 at the time.
Re: Marquez. Would have been a really interesting fight. Canizales was tough, he was never knocked out and had some really nice boxing skill. Probably would have been a tougher fight for Marquez strategically than, say, Sahaprom, who would have come forward the whole fight looking for a Ko.

[Autobarn]

I think Sahaprom was fitter & faster than Marquez. Brilliant handspeed, at his best, from the Thai, and capable of a huge workrate & flair - raising his game for good opponents. I think Sahaprom might be better than he looked - all those fights with southpaws in Japan. That right hand really zeroed in. Marquez such a massive puncher, despite sometimes looking like he's ready to go, and a great punch picker, though.

You might be right on Canizales, who looked like dynamite early in his title reign especially in the 2 Seabrooks fights and the 2nd with Hardy.

Is Canizales v Bones Adams a really good fight, then?


Been some amazing bantamweight world title fights in the past 15 years, hasn't there:

McCullough-Bueno
Tapia-Ayala 1 & 2
Tatsuyoshi-Singwangcha
Marquez-Mark Johnson 1 & Austin
Veeraphol-Nishioka 3 and 4 (not seen 1 & 2)
Hasegawa-Veeraphol 1

[Autobarn]

watched canizales v vazquez again, today. i had it 6-6 this time, for what it's worth. canizales looked a bit shocked when he felt vazquez's strength/power early. but he got into it mid fight, made a bold stand at the 3/4 mark and had vazquez backpeddling late. if that was a 15-rounder, canizales would have probably been a clear winner.

vs junior jones as well, size seemed to be a major factor. i wonder if canizales would have broken in half a skinny, weaker jones at 118...that could have been a bantam superfight, had jones not been stopped in an upset. obviously, jones would have his day, with 2 wins over MAB at 122.

[giacomino]

I think Sahaprom was fitter & faster than Marquez. Brilliant handspeed, at his best, from the Thai, and capable of a huge workrate & flair - raising his game for good opponents. I think Sahaprom might be better than he looked - all those fights with southpaws in Japan. That right hand really zeroed in. Marquez such a massive puncher, despite sometimes looking like he's ready to go, and a great punch picker, though.

You might be right on Canizales, who looked like dynamite early in his title reign especially in the 2 Seabrooks fights and the 2nd with Hardy.

Is Canizales v Bones Adams a really good fight, then?


Been some amazing bantamweight world title fights in the past 15 years, hasn't there:

McCullough-Bueno
Tapia-Ayala 1 & 2
Tatsuyoshi-Singwangcha
Marquez-Mark Johnson 1 & Austin
Veeraphol-Nishioka 3 and 4 (not seen 1 & 2)
Hasegawa-Veeraphol 1

There have been some great ones and more are on the way with Vic D moving up and guys like Hasegawa, Montiel, Moreno, Perez, Sidorenko, Agbeko, Cermeno, Mijares around.
My favorite, just because it was the first bantamweight super-fight I remember, was Zarate-Zamora in 1977. Two champions with a combined 74-0 record and 73 KOs who went to war.

[Autobarn]

exciting fight, that. crowd seemed to be at fever pitch. some nutter from the audience climbing the the ring, and the police practically chucked him over the ropes!

[Counter-puncher]

exciting fight, that. crowd seemed to be at fever pitch. some nutter from the audience climbing the the ring, and the police practically chucked him over the ropes!

haha then the two managers having a crap football-fan style fight, girly kicks and all, on the ring apron

[Autobarn]

Will be interesting to see if Darchinyan can add something to the current bantamweight scene. Risky fight with Agbeko, but I hope Vic wins. Poss big fight with the excellent Hasegawa.

A few thoughts: Canizales was good but his run was uneventful. Because 118 was uneventful (barring Seabrooks, Adams, Hardy), I feel his failures at 122 hurt. Vazquez seemed to lack stamina, Junior Jones could be knocked out. Orlando didn't seem to have "it".

Rafael Marquez, meanwhile - classic 3-fight series with Vazquez up at 122. Briefly held belt, and despite losing the 2 rematches, he inflicted terrible injuries on Vazquez, and barely lost the rubber match. All 3 fights were waged at a superb level of 2-way offensive fighting. He just lost to the bigger man but still made his mark in a great rivalry.

The fact that Marquez beat Tim Austin, the bantamweight Paul Williams of the time, and HOF worthy if undersized Mark Johnson, I feel puts him definitely above Canizales.

Veeraphol Sahaprom - if Tatsuyoshi is the Japanese Gatti, then Veeraphol "Mayweather'd" him! Not once but twice, utter masterclasses, away from home. Fights with Tatsuyoshi and Nishioka (some of them absolute wars), really, really underrated.

Interesting how Veeraphol and Marquez both got knocked out early in their careers in genuine world class - the Thai losing his WBA title in his 5th pro fight to Konadu; Marquez losing pro debut to Vic Rabanales! Outrageous

[Evander]

what were Canizales' best moments? What was his finest hour?

i like his performances in the 2 seabrooks and the 2 hardy fights, most of all. he did some great work in those fights.

someone tell me if i'm wrong - i'd be glad to admit so - but all the rest seemed to be padding, really.

I still have a few of Orlando's fights on tape.
He flattened Billy Hardy good.
For some reason Canizales always tapped or wiped his nose before an attack or an exchange with his opponent.
It was a trait of his I remember.

Orlando was a decent fighter.

[Autobarn]

yes it seemed to be either a nervous twitch or some kid of nose/breathing problem

some ppl feel hardy beat him in that first fight

beautiful boxer - at least during the first 1/2 of his tenure as bantam champ

[Rick Farris]

Thoughts on former bantam champ (16 defenses) Orlando Canizales getting into the Hall of Fame?

http://www.ringtv.com/blog/729/canizale ... s_overdue/

Was Canizales' "call to the hall overdue", or was it right to overlook him due to uninspired challengers, close calls, etc?

I felt he could box beautifully, he had a way of ziging in range, punching and zagging out of range before the opponent could hit him. But IMO his opponents became wise to his style, would frustrate him, give him considerable problems. Classic 1st fight with Billy Hardy away from home.

Canizalez is on the ballot for the WBHOF induction this year.
The ballots have all been mailed and we are getting them back right now.
We on the Selection Commitee will open the mail and count the ballots on June 28th.
I nominated Orlando this year and believe he has a strong chance of being inducted.
It's all up to the votes.


-Rick Farris
Chairman- WBHOF Selection Commitee

[Autobarn]

Thanks for the info. Canizales is a good one to debate about. There is plenty of room for debate and this choice of Canizales has led to plenty of back-and-forth on websites.

I would love to see Veeraphol Sahaprom get in, once he's finally retired. Due to success of his bitter rivals Toshiaki Nishioka (whom he faced 4x in Japan) and Hozumi Hasegawa (whom he faced 2x in Japan) - both of whom are WBC champs now - and the 2 "Mayweather-esque" masterclasses over "Japanese Gatti" Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, the longevity of 14 WBC bantamweight defenses following a long career in Muay Thai and not losing the belt til he was 37 (a bit Zaragoza, that). A real underrated great. Thailand doesn't reconise IBF so no wonder Rafael Marquez fight never happened.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

There are lesser fighters in and I wouldn't call it an injustice. But Orlando falls short for me. A real solid pro, perhaps a victim of a less than stellar era. But you can only evaluate on what is, not what could be.

[bennie]

Yeah, he's a Hall of Famer (although bizarrely, I preferred watching the dynamic but more erratic Gaby). Sixteen straight defences, of course, is a record for the bantamweight division, even though Manuel Ortiz made 19 (spanning two reigns).

[Autobarn]

I don't quite see Canizales as a great in the manner I see a human tornado like Jeff Fenech as a great fighter.

Bennie - was Canizales-Hardy 1 a debatable decision? I've only seen highlights of it. Could the fight be considered a classic? Obviously the rematch a bad beating for Hardy, in the heat.

[scartissue]

Yeah, he's a Hall of Famer (although bizarrely, I preferred watching the dynamic but more erratic Gaby). Sixteen straight defences, of course, is a record for the bantamweight division, even though Manuel Ortiz made 19 (spanning two reigns).

Bennie, you and me both regarding Gaby. He would put you in mind of a bantamweight version of Sonny Liston the way he would flatten his opponents. Sometimes downright scary. Saw him thump on Diego Rosario, Franco Torregoza, James Pipps, Louis Curtis, Sandoval and Lora. Did a fast decline after the Sandoval win. And how Jeff Chandler handled those body shots is still a wonder to me.

Scartissue

[Autobarn]

finally saw a full version of canizales-hardy 1. great fight. hardy dominates final 3 rounds after being dropped in 9th. more than enough for a hardy win, in my eyes. even when he was knocked down, he got up and outboxed canizales in the same session. superb battle, fought at a high level. but the champ seemed to fade out of it when his eye got "taken" with straight lefts and rights from the sunderland man. ppl talk about canizales-reyes being controversial. why does no one talk of this brilliant fight as a controversy?