If Haye wins will he be World Top 10?

kevin · Post by **kevin** » 03 Sep 2004, 20:03

Thompson is rated 9 by the WBC, 8 by the IBF and 6 by the IBO, where will Haye be rated if he wins?

Kev

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 03 Sep 2004, 20:50

Good question,

Whilst I have Thompson in the worlds top ten I would say victory would leave Haye in the top 15, but not quite top ten. Rothman's form since the Thompson has been poor, suggesting that his original place in the top ten may have been flattering.

Thompson is at an age where he could go at anytime (if he hasn't already) and I think that has to be taken into account. Although stats wise Thompson is a top ten fighter, he might not be among the best ten in the world come fight night.

Arthur Williams was probably in the top 15 before he fought Haye, did most people consider Haye a top 15 fighter following that win (based on results, not potential). I would say not.

It would have to be a consideration, but I wouldn't quite say he warranted a place in the top ten yet. Although, in terms of UK P4P he would be there.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 04 Sep 2004, 04:17

If he beats Thompson, who is a genuine top ten contender, then of course he has to take his place.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 04 Sep 2004, 04:23

With Hayes skill he'll get there at some point, anyway.

computerrank · Post by **computerrank** » 04 Sep 2004, 07:39

In boxrec ratings he we get about #20, if he wins.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 04 Sep 2004, 07:48

yeah i think so, you got to remember that the division is very weak. Talent wise, forgetting who people have beaten, Haye is right up there, and then a win against Thompson would match the best wins of some of the contenders currently in the top 10. I think it's still Ezra Sellers' best win, and he's still considered a top 10 cruiser just about, fights O'Neil Bell tonight actually.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 04 Sep 2004, 09:29

I don't know about top 10, one thing which one feels puts someone in the top 10 would be a demonstration of their diversity as a fighter, I don't think that this fight will show us that as whoever wins I imagen it will be by an early KO which we have seen Haye do befor. I can however see the argument for a top 15 because of his potencial.

I think the fight that would convince me of his top 10 potencial would be against Hobson as that would be more likely to streach haye a number of rounds.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 04 Sep 2004, 10:10

well carl thompson is rated in the top 10 by the ring magazine so yeah you'd have to put him in the top 10 if he wins it.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 04 Sep 2004, 10:51

hitman_hatton1 wrote:well carl thompson is rated in the top 10 by the ring magazine so yeah you'd have to put him in the top 10 if he wins it.

Would you not admit that as styles make fights that we have not seen as much depth in Haye's style (i.e. what dose he do when he can't KO them) Thompson has made it into the list because he has proved all aspects of his game, if haye bangs him out we are still yet to see his endurance and what he dose against more cagey fighters, untill I have seen that (which I believe we would vs Hobson) then he is top 15 maybe but not top 10.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 04 Sep 2004, 10:56

josh fg wrote:
hitman_hatton1 wrote:well carl thompson is rated in the top 10 by the ring magazine so yeah you'd have to put him in the top 10 if he wins it.
Would you not admit that as styles make fights that we have not seen as much depth in Haye's style (i.e. what dose he do when he can't KO them) Thompson has made it into the list because he has proved all aspects of his game, if haye bangs him out we are still yet to see his endurance and what he dose against more cagey fighters, untill I have seen that (which I believe we would vs Hobson) then he is top 15 maybe but not top 10.

I think your ignoring all the skills Haye displays before the KO. Haye's pretty cagey himself. I'm sure he doesn't rely on the knockout to win and would settle for outboxing an opponent for however many rounds necessary to gain a points decision.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 04 Sep 2004, 11:01

i still think there's a place in the top 10 if he were to be impressive against haye. the cat is at no 6 in the ring ratings perhaps not that high but he can sneak in there i think.

i agree we've yet to c all of what haye is made of.

but in this game its all about beating the right guy and thompson is the right guy to get haye in the top 10 as things stand.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 04 Sep 2004, 11:03

if he beats mark hovis

he's not proved anything beyond domestic level. beating him doesn't mean a carrott on the world scene. beating enzo would be more worthwhile although i suppose u could say the same about him to.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 04 Sep 2004, 11:08

Hobson would show other aspects of his game Enzo IMHO isn't worth a hill of beans he is a typical warren nothing fighter. Haye would be far more likely to KO him than he would Hobson.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 04 Sep 2004, 11:12

josh fg wrote:Hobson would show other aspects of his game Enzo IMHO isn't worth a hill of beans he is a typical warren nothing fighter. Haye would be far more likely to KO him than he would Hobson.

enzo would beat hovis in my opinion.

i agree enzo is a typical warren fighter. but that doesn't take away the fact he's a good domestic level fighter.

enzo would be more dangerous to haye cos he can punch better than hovis. skills wise haye has shitloads more on hovis.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 04 Sep 2004, 11:16

I think Haye looks to have more skill but we haven't really seen it demostrated under presher and we don't give rankings on potencial.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 04 Sep 2004, 11:23

josh fg wrote:I think Haye looks to have more skill but we haven't really seen it demostrated under presher and we don't give rankings on potencial.

true but we give rankings on who u beat and in thompson's case he's rated at no 6 in the world by a respected ratings body (the ring).

i'm not convinced about haye either. the mock fight was an extremely worrying performance. a better fighter would have taken him out there.

if he looks good beating haye i have him in the top 10.

if he wins but looks a touch shaky doing it, then i accept perhaps he's not quite in there. hows that for ya.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 04 Sep 2004, 11:36

[quote="hitman_hatton1if he looks good beating haye i have him in the top 10.

if he wins but looks a touch shaky doing it, then i accept perhaps he's not quite in there. hows that for ya.

[/quote]

That will do fine

I think you are right the performance has got a lot to do with it.

tea · Post by **tea** » 04 Sep 2004, 12:41

SIMPLY PUT .....NO!!!! I don`t think even in his best days Thompson was considered top10 in the world....lets not forget how he got his present rating ..he pulled a 1 punch finish out from a fight he was about to be stopped in after being dominated.These guys hanging round for paydays now like Nelson Thompson Williams r cannon fodder for the young guns who have got good financial backers willing to pay lot`s of money to get the ratings and points available by beating them...Hobson has only just got that backing after 5 yrs doing it the hard way and working full time ,sponsor and time of and TV interest now means he`s the dark horse ,underated by people in the media and on sites like this...but well respected by trainers and managers in the game who know him....Twitman always has a go but the facts r clear...Hobson smashed Luke Simpkin the fight before he drew with Pele REID,Hobson stopped him in 4 brutal rds,Hobson is the only mam in nearly 100 fights to give bonson a count and smashed Swaby,Norton etc.....the young guns r coming through Haye talks big but both his team and Maccas team have decided to avoid Hobson...by not going the proper route,and not taking a chance to fight him when myself and TG made ourselves available ....the fights for 2005 r to be made in the cruisers,seasoned pro Hobson comes through ,Haye will be found wanting in a few depts,Macca is not great at anything but will be exposed in the chin dept.....all the old guys will be gone by next summer.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 04 Sep 2004, 13:23

1. Wayne Braithwaite
2. Jean Marc Mormeck
3. O'Neil Bell
4. Johnny Nelson
5. Kelvin Davis
6. Virgil Hill
7. Guillermo Jones
8. Alexander Gurov
9. Ezra Sellers
10. Carl Thompson

fightnews top 10. I'd say it's pretty accurate...now that top 10 hardly oozes quality does it? I think Haye is good enough, if he beats Thompson impressively...to be ranked amongst those names outside the top 5 or 6.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 04 Sep 2004, 15:38

Virgil Hills retired so he shouldn't be on that list. Carl Thompson is at least as deserving to be on that list as much as Ezra Sellers. Both big punchers with dodgy chins and mixed results.

Steudle · Post by **Steudle** » 04 Sep 2004, 16:21

On the last ESPN FNF show last week ,Hill said he wasnt retired as originally reported.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 04 Sep 2004, 17:10

adamiw wrote: 1. Wayne Braithwaite
2. Jean Marc Mormeck
3. O'Neil Bell
4. Johnny Nelson
5. Kelvin Davis
6. Virgil Hill
7. Guillermo Jones
8. Alexander Gurov
9. Ezra Sellers
10. Carl Thompson

Well it doesn't take a helluva lot to get into the top ten cruisers, the divisons as thin talent wise as ever. Haye should blast out Carl in a couple of rounds ( he better anyway, or he's in trouble ) and he'd likely blast out the slightly fragile Sellers too, who looks on for another beating tonight.

But the top 5 fighters all take a punch pretty well, so the inexperienced Haye will struggle. He needs to get a few ten rounders behind him in 2005 first.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Sep 2004, 17:59

What about May and Caccortore - I'd have both ahead of Sellars

Boxing Monthly have Steve Cunnigham and Dale Brown in the 10 that aren't in fightnews.

I would currently have Thomspon ahead of all mentioned, but I think the fact that he could do an Arthur Williams and grow shot overnight, it should affect Haye's rankings. If Haye beats a competitive Thompson he probably deserves a place, but if he beats another shot fight - he'd probably be top 15.

I'm actually glad Hill has reconsidered, despite his long career Hill is still as bright as a button and came within a whisker of beating arguably the best champ in his last fight (if he hadn't have taken a count he would have won on points).

I'd tip Hill to beat Nelson, quite clearly aswell.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Sep 2004, 17:59

What about May and Caccortore - I'd have both ahead of Sellars

Boxing Monthly have Steve Cunnigham and Dale Brown in the 10 that aren't in fightnews.

I would currently have Thomspon ahead of all mentioned, but I think the fact that he could do an Arthur Williams and grow shot overnight, it should affect Haye's rankings. If Haye beats a competitive Thompson he probably deserves a place, but if he beats another shot fight - he'd probably be top 15.

I'm actually glad Hill has reconsidered, despite his long career Hill is still as bright as a button and came within a whisker of beating arguably the best champ in his last fight (if he hadn't have taken a count he would have won on points).

I'd tip Hill to beat Nelson, quite clearly aswell.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Sep 2004, 18:00

What about May and Caccortore - I'd have both ahead of Sellars

Boxing Monthly have Steve Cunnigham and Dale Brown in the 10 that aren't in fightnews.

I would currently have Thomspon ahead of all mentioned, but I think the fact that he could do an Arthur Williams and grow shot overnight, it should affect Haye's rankings. If Haye beats a competitive Thompson he probably deserves a place, but if he beats another shot fight - he'd probably be top 15.

I'm actually glad Hill has reconsidered, despite his long career Hill is still as bright as a button and came within a whisker of beating arguably the best champ in his last fight (if he hadn't have taken a count he would have won on points).

I'd tip Hill to beat Nelson, quite clearly aswell.