prospects ruined by veterans

[Expug]

Benitez was something else.
Ive seen him train in person and spar.
The thing is , I cant remember who it was with.
He was at the gym I trained at in Chicago.It would have been 1982 or so I guess.
He was there with Carlos Deleon.
He toyed with somebody in the ring. I just wish I could remember who it was. Its been too long maybe.
Anyway, his defensive skills were unreal. He would just move his upper body.

[Rick Farris]

Davey Moore v Roberto Duran

Great pick!, Rob

Yeah. One of the most one-sided beatings ever.
Good call.

[bennie]

Davey did destroy Benitez after that.

Benitez was more 'shot' than Moore, Saad.

That's true in hindsight. But he was a significant favorite in the fight. Nobody thought Moore was going to blow him out.

I can imagine. Moore had good mental strength. That's why he won his world title so quickly and walked through Kalule and Weir (and into Duran, unfortunately). Moore was physically never the same after Duran but he walked through Benitez and showed the world that Benitez was totally through. Duran did something special in hammering Moore. Moore could fight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

No doubt, Cuevas & Moore has the misfortune of running into Duran when he was rebuilding himself from Benitez & laing. A cornered Hands of Stone is one of the most dangerous animals the world has ever known. No offense to SRR, Duran was the best fighter I've ever seen.

Hamsho, who is an underrated guy, had just beat the living hell out of Wilfred. Whatever he had left, was mauled out of him that day.

[Collins2000]

I can imagine. Moore had good mental strength. That's why he won his world title so quickly and walked through Kalule and Weir (and into Duran, unfortunately). Moore was physically never the same after Duran but he walked through Benitez and showed the world that Benitez was totally through. Duran did something special in hammering Moore. Moore could fight.

bennie, be a good chap and put your copy of Moore - Benitez up on Youtube.

Then we can compare notes again.

[Collins2000]

I put it up on Youtube.

Davey Moore vs Wilfred Benitez

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MlZPU5Sz_s

I am interested in your thoughts after watching it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Thx, he obviously was impaired by the ankle, that right hand that dropped him had him rocked though. Still amazing head movement on the follow up assault with little to no mobility.

[Collins2000]

Thx, he obviously was impaired by the ankle, that right hand that dropped him had him rocked though. Still amazing head movement on the follow up assault with little to no mobility.

Thanks.

Here's what I saw which is pretty much what you saw, I think.

Benitez looked sharp and in shape, moving nicely for the first couple of minutes.

Then, bang, Moore caught him with a good clean right hand to the side of his face.

Benitez went down heavily and twisted his right ankle.

When he got up it was obvious he was in some trouble with the ankle and elected to bob and weave in the corner seeing out the round.

In round 2 Benitez showed none of the mobility he had shown in round 1. He was having trouble with his right ankle. Once again he went into a corner and Moore, as any good pro would, sensed there was something wrong with Benitez and started unloading. Not a lot got through but the ref had no option other than to stop it as Benitez had pretty much stopped fighting back because, I believe, he was unable to move due to the injury to his ankle.

I didn't see any conclusive evidence that he was 'shot'. Yes, he was hit and hurt but he was sometimes hit and hurt in his prime too.

Anyway, it was good to see it again after all these years.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Your recollection was definitely better than mine.

[turn2stone]

simon brown 22-1 wko3 shawn o'sullivan 11-0.
live on cbs in toronto, o'sullivan's hometown.
it was not pretty.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

simon brown 22-1 wko3 shawn o'sullivan 11-0.
live on cbs in toronto, o'sullivan's hometown.
it was not pretty.

Good call, Bert cooper did the same to Willie deWitt.

[Collins2000]

simon brown 22-1 wko3 shawn o'sullivan 11-0.
live on cbs in toronto, o'sullivan's hometown.
it was not pretty.

Good call, Bert cooper did the same to Willie deWitt.

Great minds! Turn2stone's post made me think of that fight too.

Funny thing though. I then looked up DeWitt's record and that was his only loss. I sort of assumed he'd have become a stepping stone on the Canadian circuit after that bashing, but he won another half a dozen and retired. I now seem to recall he became a doctor or a lawyer or summat in the professional line after that. Anyone know?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

No idea, but that broken nose Cooper gave him was nasty business.

Tyson ruined Biggs.

[turn2stone]

simon brown 22-1 wko3 shawn o'sullivan 11-0.
live on cbs in toronto, o'sullivan's hometown.
it was not pretty.

Good call, Bert cooper did the same to Willie deWitt.

Great minds! Turn2stone's post made me think of that fight too.

Funny thing though. I then looked up DeWitt's record and that was his only loss. I sort of assumed he'd have become a stepping stone on the Canadian circuit after that bashing, but he won another half a dozen and retired. I now seem to recall he became a doctor or a lawyer or summat in the professional line after that. Anyone know?

dewitt-cooper was also on cbs, which was clearly trying to hitch it's wagon to the rising olympic stars of o'sullivan and dewitt. and while not held in dewitt's hometown, it was still held in western canada with a large and loud pro-dewitt crowd on hand to see a slaughter; with big willie left on his hands and knees with blood pouring from his nose. But, he did have some closure on his career, as his last fight was a victory over henry tillman, the man who snuck by him to win the Olympic Gold medal.
Dewitt is currently a criminal defence lawyer in calgary. his name crops-up from time to time in the news.

[JMac]

simon brown 22-1 wko3 shawn o'sullivan 11-0.
live on cbs in toronto, o'sullivan's hometown.
it was not pretty.

That was the 1st fight that came to my mind. O'Sullivan was the '84 lt middle gold medal winner in LA. He beat Frank Tate in a great fight. Ray Leonard was his manager in the pros but O'Sullivan was not ready for Brown. It was ugly and he was never the same.

[turn2stone]

simon brown 22-1 wko3 shawn o'sullivan 11-0.
live on cbs in toronto, o'sullivan's hometown.
it was not pretty.

That was the 1st fight that came to my mind. O'Sullivan was the '84 lt middle gold medal winner in LA. He beat Frank Tate in a great fight. Ray Leonard was his manager in the pros but O'Sullivan was not ready for Brown. It was ugly and he was never the same.

close....but not quite JMac.
o'sullivan won silver. he lost a hard luck decision to frank tate. mike trainer (leonard's manager) managed o'sullivan. o'sullivan has not had an easy go of it in recent years. i would love to write the follow-up to Mean Business, Stephen Brunts 1987 book that left O'Sullivan shortly after the Brown massacre. it would be a story of being left by your team, bad fights, lost money, lost family, long term/life long suffering and damage and of being a 180-degree picture of the fresh faced kid in the Swiss Chalet (Canadian chicken restaurant) commercials who said "every fighter needs a little chicken in him !" O'Sullivan had it all, looks, color, amateur pedigree, power, family, big time team behind him. I'd like to the book kind of life the guy up. he lives not far from me and i've always wanted to track him down just to say Hi and you're not forgotten. his 1981 World Amateur Championship Gold Medal victory over Cuban Armando Martinez (who i think was a reigning Olympic Gold Medalist at the time) was one of the greatest amateur boxing matches i have ever seen.

[JMac]

close....but not quite JMac.
o'sullivan won silver. he lost a hard luck decision to frank tate. mike trainer (leonard's manager) managed o'sullivan. o'sullivan has not had an easy go of it in recent years. i would love to write the follow-up to Mean Business, Stephen Brunts 1987 book that left O'Sullivan shortly after the Brown massacre. it would be a story of being left by your team, bad fights, lost money, lost family, long term/life long suffering and damage and of being a 180-degree picture of the fresh faced kid in the Swiss Chalet (Canadian chicken restaurant) commercials who said "every fighter needs a little chicken in him !" O'Sullivan had it all, looks, color, amateur pedigree, power, family, big time team behind him. I'd like to the book kind of life the guy up. he lives not far from me and i've always wanted to track him down just to say Hi and you're not forgotten. his 1981 World Amateur Championship Gold Medal victory over Cuban Armando Martinez (who i think was a reigning Olympic Gold Medalist at the time) was one of the greatest amateur boxing matches i have ever seen.

You're right, he did get silver. I'm getting a little punchy myself but I remember watching that fight and it was a great bout. He was a great amateur. Trainer might have been the manager, but it was Leonard who was the one you saw in the press claiming to be guiding O'Sullivan and I think they moved him a little quick against a guy like Brown at that point of his career. I know a coach in the Toronto area who has coached the Canadian national team and I asked him about Shawn and he said he was not doing well. Does he have some brain damage? Sad.

[scartissue]

Benitez was something else.
Ive seen him train in person and spar.
The thing is , I cant remember who it was with.
He was at the gym I trained at in Chicago.It would have been 1982 or so I guess.
He was there with Carlos Deleon.
He toyed with somebody in the ring. I just wish I could remember who it was. Its been too long maybe.
Anyway, his defensive skills were unreal. He would just move his upper body.

Brian, I remember when he was in town, he was training for the Hearns fight. I was judging the Park District tournament at the time at Clarendon park on Montrose when the ring announcer states to the crowd that Benitez was going to be in town training at some gym for his upcoming fight with Hearns. But it really annoyed me that the 'announcer' referred to him as...'Wilfred Benito'. Oh, man, did I get pissed. I thought to myself, how could he not know Wilfredo Benitez. To me it was unforgivable. I couldn't perceive that these guys were just hired newsreaders who announce anything from fights to basketball intros to graduations. Too funny!

Scartissue

[Expug]

Dan, Benitez trained while he was in town at a gym at Division and Damen called the U.S. Arena.
I trained there at that time. It was the main gym for Louis Mateo .
Other guys that worked out there were Johnny Lira and Lenny Lapaglia. Lenny also worked out at some other places like Windy City and Fuller Park. Lira was at US Arena alot at that time. The gym wasnt there for many years though and its long gone now.
Frank Bruno also worked out there when he was in Chicago as we talked about before. Real nice guy.
I wonder who that announcer was at Clarendon who messed up Benitez' name.

[Nile4000]

Alex Ramos-Ted Sanders.

[danieljenkins]

do jeff lacey and joe clazaghe fit the bill ?

[Jaywheel]

Trinidad - Reid.

[Idisagree]

Trinidad - Reid.

Trinidad ruined Vargas too imo.
Leija ruined Camacho Jr. or what it that Camacho Jr. did not have a heart for boxing?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Vargas had gone beyond prospect-status, & I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions about him. He looked every inch as good against De La Hoya he did against Quartey & Trinidad, IMO.

No one ruined Vargas. Myth. However, he did go rapidly downhill post-2002, following the defeat to De La Hoya.

[Rocky Balboa]

Leija put the break's on Bojado who was wirdely regarded as the next big thing in the sport! That wasn't too long ago either!