Aaron Pryor vs Sugar Ray Leonard

[Big Ste]

I don't care who wins, just wanna be sat in the front row to smell the magic.

[Elton John]

I don't care who wins, just wanna be sat in the front row to smell the magic.

could have happened if leonard had more guts and ambition

[Counter-puncher]

I don't care who wins, just wanna be sat in the front row to smell the magic.

could have happened if leonard had more guts and ambition

yeah, just imagine the lack of guts he showed, not facing a little shortarse 140lber, and facing kittens like Hearns Duran and Hagler instead.

[Elton John]

I don't care who wins, just wanna be sat in the front row to smell the magic.

could have happened if leonard had more guts and ambition

yeah, just imagine the lack of guts he showed, not facing a little shortarse 140lber, and facing kittens like Hearns Duran and Hagler instead.

Facing Hagler after five years is what I call leftovers. It's okay if youre a leonard fan tho- they're used to settling for has-beens vs. their favorite fighter on his remedial boxing tour

Lalonde over Nunn. What a joke!

[Counter-puncher]

we're not on about Nunn though are we, you little rapscallion you?

we're on about pryor.

so lets do it again, timid Leonard fights Hearns at 147, surely he should have taken on 5'6" lightwelterweight Pryor instead, if he had guts and ambition? lol.

wilfred Benitez? gimme a break. amateur. 3 weight world champ. champ at 147 and 154 two whole divisions above Pryor, who never won jack above 140. the drug-ravaged Pryor would surely have been a tougher test than alltimer benitez ? lol

first ballot HOFer Duran? a guy who won titles all the way up to 160? why didn't Leonard fight that guy pryor who never won jack above 140 instead? what a loser Leonard is for not fighting tiny insane unmarketable noone needed him Pryor!

and why on earth fight a man considered all time top 5 at middleweight. a contest against shortarse Pryor who never won- did i mention- jack5hit above 140, well that would have been a challenge

tell you what Elton you little scamp you:

you name me a decent fighter Pryor beat at 147lbs, and i will concede leonard should have fought him.

you tell me what top level welterweight Pryor beat, and then i will concede that Leonard showed a lack of ambition in not fighting his 5'6", shortarmed, basic, fights with his face, took ages to dispose of an ancient blownup featherweight, drug-fulled lunatic.

deal>?

[Counter-puncher]

come on Elton, give me a nice long list of world-class welters beaten by Pryor, that proves how leonard should have fought Pryor. prove to me that Pryor was a viable world level welterweight.

[Elton John]

we're not on about Nunn though are we, you little rapscallion you?

we're on about pryor.

so lets do it again, timid Leonard fights Hearns at 147, surely he should have taken on 5'6" lightwelterweight Pryor instead, if he had guts and ambition? lol.

wilfred Benitez? gimme a break. amateur. 3 weight world champ. champ at 147 and 154 two whole divisions above Pryor, who never won jack above 140. the drug-ravaged Pryor would surely have been a tougher test than alltimer benitez ? lol

first ballot HOFer Duran? a guy who won titles all the way up to 160? why didn't Leonard fight that guy pryor who never won jack above 140 instead? what a loser Leonard is for not fighting tiny insane unmarketable noone needed him Pryor!

and why on earth fight a man considered all time top 5 at middleweight. a contest against shortarse Pryor who never won- did i mention- jack5hit above 140, well that would have been a challenge

tell you what Elton you little scamp you:

you name me a decent fighter Pryor beat at 147lbs, and i will concede leonard should have fought him.

you tell me what top level welterweight Pryor beat, and then i will concede that Leonard showed a lack of ambition in not fighting his 5'6", shortarmed, basic, fights with his face, took ages to dispose of an ancient blownup featherweight, drug-fulled lunatic.

deal>?

I will tell you when you tell me what lalonde did to deserve his big fight with Leonard and why he is more deserving of a fight than Nunn who, is much closer to Leonard's weight anyways.

And wasnt Ray supposed to be retired? Why is he taking so many fights with his eye in jeopardy of being lost?

Just cut the BS... I watched Aaron walk up to ray at the hearns post conference and ask him for a fight. Ray, sweating from fear told him "this is my moment. go sit down".

I dont see why he cant just take the fight but instead, he needs people like YOU to explain his unwillingness to take a hard fight!

youre just trying to excuse ray by saying Aaron wasnt worthy to begin with-that he hadnt faced any welters to recieve a ranking.

well, that also holds true with hagler and leonard and was still made into a fight the public wanted (altho several years late)

had leonard ever fought at 160? not to my knowledge. had ray ever competed at 168? no yet that fight was what he wanted and got. they still made the fight happen and in the same way Ray should be more willing to give the public better fights instead of relics impersonating once great fighters like Marvin Hagler or Don lalonde, who the public and even die hard fans like myself, are not familiar with.

with you people,, leonard fans I realize its a bit different; you'll take what ever he gives you and be glad about it. the rest of us are more demanding

[Elton John]

come on Elton, give me a nice long list of world-class welters beaten by Pryor, that proves how leonard should have fought Pryor. prove to me that Pryor was a viable world level welterweight.

then according to you the Leonard hagler fight never should have been made. ray wasnt given a chance either. explain that

[Counter-puncher]

come on Elton, give me a nice long list of world-class welters beaten by Pryor, that proves how leonard should have fought Pryor. prove to me that Pryor was a viable world level welterweight.

then according to you the Leonard hagler fight never should have been made. ray wasnt given a chance either. explain that

I dont see why he cant just take the fight but instead, he needs people like YOU to explain his unwillingness to take a hard fight!

you see elton, old bean, herein lies the whole problem. you say leonard had an unwillingness to take a hard fight. this is, to say the least, a little problematic.

recall the Hearns fight, when he was battered and bruised at the end? that was what i would call a tough fight. unification fight. against a huge puncher, 6'1 with the wingspan of an albatross.

or the Duran fight in Motreal, where he got bodypunched and elbowed and butted for 15 rounds. looked tough from where I was sitting.

so whatever beef you have with leonard, just for starters, you should try having it without using such patently stupid phrases as 'he wouldn't take a tough fight'. as he patently did so several times.

he fought more ATG's than anyone since 1970 or so. if that isn't enough for you, as it clearly isn't, well that's sad.

by the way I'm not even a leonard fan. only one fight i ever cheered for him and not against him, and that was Duran. the rest, i was praying for him to be decapitated. i'm just a non-hater

now lets talk briefly about some of the bile you are spitting.

take Lalonde. shocking fight to take I agree, and damn, he coulda fought Mike Nunn etc etc etc.

'old fighter cashing out takes optimal risk-reward fight, THIS SHOCK NEWS JUST IN'.

pryor, ooh what a terror, the black Duran, whirlwind motion nonstop puncher ooooohh. here's the thing sweetcheeks, and i'm going to put it nice and slow for you:

(1) Leonard didn't need Pryor
(2) Pryor didn't earn a shot.
(3) Leonard would have schooled him anyway.

i hope then you understand rather better why i discount your ranting, and consider you, shall we put it politely, the most eccentric of several utter cretins on here.

and so on and so on.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

he(SRL) fought more ATG's than anyone since 1970 or so.

- Fine and dandy to come up with salient points to counter the usual muck found in this section, but given your predilection to allying yourself with some of that muck to have a pop at me, let's look at your statement above.

Any of us can overstate a position, make a spelling/grammatical error, or pull a boner and so on. So, do you contest that Leonard fought 6 HOFers ending up with a 6-3-1 record against them? What do you say about Oscar being in against 8 HOFers, going 4-6? Tito in against 6, going 3-3, Ali post 70 in against 6 going 6-3, Mr. Field in against 6 going 6-2-1?

May be a few more HOFers lurking in the above records as well as others I didn't bother with. I just picked the obvious ones.

Manny in against 5 HOFers assuming Hatton gets in which he will, currently at 7-1-1. If he fights Mosley and/or Mr. Money, there's 6-7 HOFers, and maybe more later.

Regardless, legacy points mean squat in a hypothetical. The career age of the fighters, along with the style, and natural attributes matchup will be the primary determinate of the winner as any odds maker in Vegas will know when he sets odds.

I'm already on the record as picking Pryor in this for reasons previously mentioned. It doesn't bother me if someone picks Leonard, it's the complete dismissal of Pryor with the usual mucky muck, like he ducked Hagler and Spinks, was a bum, too small, ad naseum.

Pryor saw Leonard as the big porterhouse steak in the butcher's window that he lusted over but could never quite scrape up enough change for is why the fight never got made. Nobody blames Leonard for making bigger plans, it's the poor sportsmanship he showed in making those plans where Leonard catches the stick.

And, yes, you overstated your position.

[Counter-puncher]

And, yes, you overstated your position.

ok, indeed I did

Leonard in beating Benitez, Hearns, Duran, and Hagler beat more surefire ATG's than anyone else in the timeframe. i don't belive any other fighter's top 4 opponents can match up to these four. most fighters' top 8 opponents don't match up.

x x

[Elton John]

And, yes, you overstated your position.

ok, indeed I did

Leonard in beating Benitez, Hearns, Duran, and Hagler beat more surefire ATG's than anyone else in the timeframe. i don't belive any other fighter's top 4 opponents can match up to these four. most fighters' top 8 opponents don't match up.

x x

Oh yes they do

[Elton John]

you see elton, old bean, herein lies the whole problem. you say leonard had an unwillingness to take a hard fight. this is, to say the least, a little problematic.

recall the Hearns fight, when he was battered and bruised at the end? that was what i would call a tough fight. unification fight. against a huge puncher, 6'1 with the wingspan of an albatross.

or the Duran fight in Motreal, where he got bodypunched and elbowed and butted for 15 rounds. looked tough from where I was sitting.

so whatever beef you have with leonard, just for starters, you should try having it without using such patently stupid phrases as 'he wouldn't take a tough fight'. as he patently did so several times.

he fought more ATG's than anyone since 1970 or so. if that isn't enough for you, as it clearly isn't, well that's sad.

by the way I'm not even a leonard fan. only one fight i ever cheered for him and not against him, and that was Duran. the rest, i was praying for him to be decapitated. i'm just a non-hater

now lets talk briefly about some of the bile you are spitting.

take Lalonde. shocking fight to take I agree, and damn, he coulda fought Mike Nunn etc etc etc.

'old fighter cashing out takes optimal risk-reward fight, THIS SHOCK NEWS JUST IN'.

pryor, ooh what a terror, the black Duran, whirlwind motion nonstop puncher ooooohh. here's the thing sweetcheeks, and i'm going to put it nice and slow for you:

(1) Leonard didn't need Pryor
(2) Pryor didn't earn a shot.
(3) Leonard would have schooled him anyway.

i hope then you understand rather better why i discount your ranting, and consider you, shall we put it politely, the most eccentric of several utter cretins on here.

and so on and so on.

Here we go again with the "I'm not a leonard fan" bit, going out of your way to play devils advocate for his sake. It's about the fans and what THEY want, not what's convenient and easy for the fighter resting on his laurels.

Like, why should WE the fans have to suffer for bouts like UNO mas when we can have Nunn-Leonard? I'm sure something like that would just have YOU on the edge of your seats biting your nails waiting for the moment Ray gets put to sleep by a huge Micheal Nunn uppercut, the kind that had Leonard gasping for air in the Norris fight

Let's face it, if ray had any real confidence in himself, that fight would have been made! I know Ray hates Mike. The only problem was his fear overruled his dislike of Nunn.

Another thing; how come leonard does not give rematches? I'm not talking those end of the decade farces with Tommy and Duran. The fact of the matter is, this is something SRL just doesnt do!

Just admit to it. I did

and this has nothing to do with feelings but facts which is what I bring you. Ray Leonard does not grant rematches.


No, no, no! It's lalonde's turn-he deserves it!

You can ask Hagler or Hearns or Duran. If you cant admit it, you're in love with SRL you big closet case

I know you closet types-ashamed to come out. Dont be,, Just look how I turned out ;;-)

as for the Hearns fight, are you talking about that tiny bump under his eye? That was nothing!This is boxing remember?

This sort of thing is to be expected so we shouldnt be traumatized if we see a spot of blood here or there or a raised bumb. In the case of Rahman - Holyfield I can see where the Doctor would have to step in for precaution but in Ray's case, it amounted to nothing more than a couple of busted blood vessels. It was nothing.

Where's that competitive spirit we've all come to love about our heroes? heroes like Roberto Duran who skipped over weight classes so he could meet with the great Leonard. And likewise I dont see why the thought of meeting up with little Aaron repulses Leonard so.

[raylawpc]

I have 3 questions for those who think Leonard ducked Pyror --

1. Can you give the name of a promoter who seriously tried to put the fight together?

2. When did Pryor challenge Leonard, or at least evidence a desire to fight him?

3. How would it have advanced Leonard's career to accept a challenge from Pryor?

Given the propensity of some guys to invent facts or turn opinion into facts, I'd appreciate it if you could support your statements with references to contemporary newspapers or boxing magazine articles. Thanks.

[Elton John]

I have 3 questions for those who think Leonard ducked Pyror --

1. Can you give the name of a promoter who seriously tried to put the fight together?

2. When did Pryor challenge Leonard, or at least evidence a desire to fight him?

3. How would it have advanced Leonard's career to accept a challenge from Pryor?

Given the propensity of some guys to invent facts or turn opinion into facts, I'd appreciate it if you could support your statements with references to contemporary newspapers or boxing magazine articles. Thanks.

it was on youtube the other day on the post hearns conference. but on youtube videos are here one day and gone the next. nevertheless I saw it. Pryor walked up to Ray in non threatening manner and told him he wanted him next. naturally, ray refused and that was the end of that. Shortly after Ray retired with a doctor's note excusing him but with the provision that he could still fight anytime he felt the courage to do so.

as for your number 3, I always thought sporting events were for the benefit of the fans. please people, dont be so protective of leonard

[BoxBuzz]

Aaron did issue a challenge, hoping that he could land the payday. It would have been a one sided unmitigated disaster for Pryor...so it really wouldn't have changed Aaron's trajectory in life at that point. Except that he would have had a bit more change for that blue bottled elixer that he favored..... he truly loved his tap water/Perrier water that his handler's loved to mix for him. Gave him just the lift he needed.

[raylawpc]

I have 3 questions for those who think Leonard ducked Pyror --

1. Can you give the name of a promoter who seriously tried to put the fight together?

2. When did Pryor challenge Leonard, or at least evidence a desire to fight him?

3. How would it have advanced Leonard's career to accept a challenge from Pryor?

Given the propensity of some guys to invent facts or turn opinion into facts, I'd appreciate it if you could support your statements with references to contemporary newspapers or boxing magazine articles. Thanks.

it was on youtube the other day on the post hearns conference. but on youtube videos are here one day and gone the next. nevertheless I saw it. Pryor walked up to Ray in non threatening manner and told him he wanted him next. naturally, ray refused and that was the end of that. Shortly after Ray retired with a doctor's note excusing him but with the provision that he could still fight anytime he felt the courage to do so.

as for your number 3, I always thought sporting events were for the benefit of the fans. please people, dont be so protective of leonard

I could give a rat's you-know-what about Leonard. Fighters take fights either (1) for money and/or (2) to advance their careers. You need fights that the fans will watch to make money - that's true. But no promoter puts together a fight solely "for the benefit of the fans." Its a business, not a philantrophic activity.

And you still haven't named a promoter who proposed putting Leonard-Pryor together.

[Elton John]

I could give a rat's you-know-what about Leonard. Fighters take fights either (1) for money and/or (2) to advance their careers. You need fights that the fans will watch to make money - that's true. But no promoter puts together a fight solely "for the benefit of the fans." Its a business, not a philantrophic activity.

And you still haven't named a promoter who proposed putting Leonard-Pryor together.

That's because leonard killed off the fight. Aaron was willing, leonard wasnt; its just that simple!

I personally believe Ray had had enough of the little guys jumping up weight classes and unexpectedly taking his title. he surely did not need another!

[Collins2000]

Sir Elton John
============

[raylawpc]

I could give a rat's you-know-what about Leonard. Fighters take fights either (1) for money and/or (2) to advance their careers. You need fights that the fans will watch to make money - that's true. But no promoter puts together a fight solely "for the benefit of the fans." Its a business, not a philantrophic activity.

And you still haven't named a promoter who proposed putting Leonard-Pryor together.

That's because leonard killed off the fight. Aaron was willing, leonard wasnt; its just that simple!

I personally believe Ray had had enough of the little guys jumping up weight classes and unexpectedly taking his title. he surely did not need another!

Proof please?

[BoxBuzz]

I think Aaron might have showed up for the money. But it was absolutely hopeless as a potential W on his record. And this he knew as well as he knew that Perrier and tap water can pack quite a kick!