Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Randyman]

Although not a very successful one, Mel Epstein became a West Coast distributor for Tuf-Wear in 1975 or 1976, so consequently everything we used was Tuf-Wear. It was good quality gear. Very durable.

I bought a pair of red Ortiz boxing gloves in 1975 from the luggage store below the Main Street Gym. I preferred sparring with the Ortiz gloves. They were similar in style to Reyes (at that time I think they were Seyers), as I remember them.

In 1980 I left the gloves with Larry Soto, while I took some time off to be with my father while he was sick. When I went back he said he had sold them to someone that really liked them. he never gave me the money either.

Mel bought me a real nice terry cloth robe before my fight with Nacho Cota at the Coliseum in San Diego but he ruined it by having "The Smasher" emblazoned on the back in big bold letters. It was too embarrassing to wear. Mel had a thing for nick names but I sure didn't like that one. Smasher belonged on some shaved and bald headed muscle bound wrestler in black Speedos.

When we got to the arena Mel says "Where's your robe?" "Oh, gee Mel, I forgot it" So I used a towel. I did the same thing in Las Vegas. He was pissed but he got over it. The "Smasher" was just too much. especially for a kid that had yet to smash anyone. That robe hung in my closet for years, unused. I'm not sure whatever happened to it.

Randy

Now that you write that, Randy, I think O'Grady may have had some kind of deal with Tuf-Wear because that's all he sold to the fighters. We used Tuf-Wear gloves for all the pro fights. It was good equipment - especially the gloves. "Tuf-Wear" was an apt description for that equipment.

But I wonder if Tuf-Wear sold bag gloves, because we all had Everlast bag gloves, sold to us by Pat O'Grady . . .

I also had an old pair of Seyer 5 or 6 ounces gloves that I used as my bag gloves. They were old Seyers - black leather and not those cool looking white and red gloves you guys in LA fought in. I really liked those old Seyer gloves.

My robe was an Everlast white terry cloth. It was one of those short robes, you might remember, that came down just north of the hem of your trunks. I got it because Jerry Quarry wore a short robe, and I thought he looked cool. I had "O.C.U. - Kappa Alpha Order" on the back. (My frat brothers forbid me from losing any fights if I wore that robe - but I did anyway . . . )

My nickname was, naturally, "Sugar Ray," but that nickname is where any similarity between my boxing ability and Robinson's both began and ended.

Gosh, I'd give just about anything to go back in time and spend a Spring afternoon working out with my friends at our gym on North May Avenue in Oklahoma City!!

Tom . . . I remember those short robes and mine were the same. And you also struck a memory when you mentioned the six-ounce "Seyer" golves that were perfect for bag punching. Quite honestly, I wish I could join you on that walk back in time to your gym. I wish we could all take each other to these places from the past. I'd love to join Brian in Chicago, and have Frank take us back to the Teamsters Gym when the likes of Keeny Teran was training. And as long as I'm dreaming, maybe Hap will provide us with a few seats at the Legion for a Bolanos fight?


-Rick Farris

I'm going along too but if Mel shows up I'm staying home! No one could ruin a good time like our own Mel Epstein. God Bless his devious little heart!

Randy DD

[Randyman]

Although not a very successful one, Mel Epstein became a West Coast distributor for Tuf-Wear in 1975 or 1976, so consequently everything we used was Tuf-Wear. It was good quality gear. Very durable.

I bought a pair of red Ortiz boxing gloves in 1975 from the luggage store below the Main Street Gym. I preferred sparring with the Ortiz gloves. They were similar in style to Reyes (at that time I think they were Seyers), as I remember them.

In 1980 I left the gloves with Larry Soto, while I took some time off to be with my father while he was sick. When I went back he said he had sold them to someone that really liked them. he never gave me the money either.

Mel bought me a real nice terry cloth robe before my fight with Nacho Cota at the Coliseum in San Diego but he ruined it by having "The Smasher" emblazoned on the back in big bold letters. It was too embarrassing to wear. Mel had a thing for nick names but I sure didn't like that one. Smasher belonged on some shaved and bald headed muscle bound wrestler in black Speedos.

When we got to the arena Mel says "Where's your robe?" "Oh, gee Mel, I forgot it" So I used a towel. I did the same thing in Las Vegas. He was pissed but he got over it. The "Smasher" was just too much. especially for a kid that had yet to smash anyone. That robe hung in my closet for years, unused. I'm not sure whatever happened to it.

Randy

Randy . . . When I read of Mel thru your eyes I can see him thru my own. Some of his ideas, like "The Smasher", were a bit over the top.
However, your conveniently "forgetting" the robe understandable.
And yeah, I can see him shaking his head and bitching all night and into the next week over something like that.
Of course, winning the fight would change his attitude.

It reminds me of when I had won a very, very close fight at the Forum. The fight should have been a draw, but I got the decision.
After six rounds, we were both pretty busted up. I had a broken nose, cut, one eye swollen, etc. Opponent looked the same.
The fans loved the action bout and showered the ring with coins.

The following Monday I get a call from promoter, Don Fraser.
Fraser requests I show up at the Forum that evening to be introduced in the ring, on TV.
I'm excited and call Mel and ask if he cares to join my girlfriend and I at the fights. We pick him up and drive to the Forum
I know better than to tell Mel that Fraser intends to have me introduced in the ring. I told Karla not to say a word.
Before the fights get started, Fraser approaches us and asks me to follow him upstairs to his office.
As I leave with Don, Mel is wondering what in the Hell is going on (I could see it in his face, "what's he doing with my fighter?).
Don takes me upstairs to his office and pulls out a case from the top drawer of his desk. He hands it to me, it's a nice Seiko watch.
Don tells me that my fight the previous week was one of the best prelims he'd seen all year and the watch is a reward for a good showing.
When I return to the ring and show Mel and Karla the watch, Mel is furious.

"What in the Hell is that for? You looked like crap in that last fight, you were lucky to win. You didn't train hard and this bastid is rewarding you?"
He had a fit, then when Fraser waves me over to be introduced in the ring, Mel really explodes. "You get in that ring and we are finished", he tells me.
I climbed into the ring to be introduced to the crowd before the main event, along with Frankie Crawford and Windmill White.

When I returned after the introductions, Mel was sitting looking straight forward, arms folded, steam coming from his ears.
Karla and I ignored his tantrum and enjoyed a good fight.
When it ended and time to leave, I ask Mel, "Since we're finished, do you still want me to drive you home?"
"What do you think I'm going to do walk? He then turns to the empty seat next to him and begins talking to an invisible friend."

On the ride home, Karla is in the front with me, Mel in the back seat.
We hear Mel talking to himself, "The guy skips training, looks like a bum, and they give him a watch. The world is no good . . ."

Ironically, I spoke with Don Fraser earlier in the week and mentioned the incident.
He didn't remember giving me the watch, or the fight, but he remembered how Mel Epstein could be. We're not alone.


-Rick Farris

Typical Mel Epstein. As I was reading your story I could swear I saw steam coming from the monitor. Mel would talk to himself endlessly, or more correctly muttering, a la "Popeye the Sailor".

Randy

[Rick Farris]

Speaking of robes and gear , an ex welterweight from here in Chicago who Ive known a long time recently told me a funny story.
Hes now a respected referee but his pro career was cut short by a detached retina . This was back in the late seventies.
When he retired, as a token of appreciation to his manager, he gave the manager his robe. It was a nice purple with the fighters name on the back.
A couple years go by and the former welter decides to go to a local fight card one night.
Hes sitting in the crowd with his girlfriend when lo and behold here comes another fighter down the aisle to the ring with the ex welters robe on.
Seems his former manager gave a nice gift to his new fighter. A nice purple robe with the lettering changed on the back to match his new tiger.
Thats boxing for ya.

Maybe someone else can use it? . . .

Great story, Brian. In 1969, after nearly fifteen years as a pro, my favorite featherweight Dwight Hawkins was KOed by Antonio Gomez at the Forum and retired from boxing.
I saw him the next day at the Main Street Gym. He'd come to visit, I thought, but it was just a brief stop.
The Hawk had a big gym bag full of equipment, training gear, robe, trucks, shoes, everything he had.
He went in with the bag and handed to his co-manager, Hal Benson. "I won't need these anymore," he said, "Maybe somebody else can use them."

Benson put his hand on Dwight's shoulder and said, "Lionel Rose lost his bantam title last night to Olivares, after your fight. Rose can't make 118 lbs anymore so Parnassus wants to match you and he at featherweight, the winner to get a title shot!. Rose can't beat you."

The fighter smiled, he'd heard the "winner gets a title fight" too many times before. He'd always win and never get the title shot.
As he said before, "Maybe somebody else can use this equipment."

He handed the bag to Benson, gave Johnny Flores a hug, and he left the Main Street Gym for the last time as a boxer.
It would be more than a year before he'd return, and when he did, he returned as a trainer. He would train Mac Foster and myself for Flores.

I don't know whatever happened his equipment, but Dwight Hawkins was my all-time boxing idol. He never disappointed me in or out of the ring.


-Rick Farris

[Bobbin & Weavin]

Here is my first real pair of boxing gloves and boxing shoes, my brother and I had many pair of kid boxing gloves as we grew up which we would go through regularly beating the hell out of each other and the neighborhood kids in the garage or driveway. These are 16oz. sparring gloves that I once lent them to Mike Nixon to spar with Emil Griffith at Newman's Gym in San Francisco. The shoes originally came with leather soles in which we always scraped with a can opener like Rick said they did, then rosin. I don't know about you guys but I always felt it was part of the warm up to step into the rosin box stroke your feet like a bull getting ready to attack. I finally had rubber soles added when the gym I was working out in had a vinyl mat instead of a canvas matt and it was slippery. I got the shoes when I was about 13 and the gloves for my 15th birthday after using the clubs gloves for years, I was on top of the world the first day I showed up at the gym with them. They are stored in my closet hanging from the laces on a hanger and my daughters never could understand why I still have them. They may just as well bury them with me when the time comes.
Bruce

"Ray Flores" boxing gloves from Northern Cal . . .

Bruce, I remember one of my trainers, Bobby Bell, had a pair of 16 oz. EVERLAST training gloves just like yours.
I liked those gloves, good leather and design. Most of my training gloves were from Mexico- MM, Casanova, Reyes, etc.

When Mel Epsteing began training me, he ordered a pair of 14oz. training gloves for me, from Ray Flores up in Northern Cal.
I liked the Ray Flores gloves, and so did Mando Ramos, who would request them when he fought in matches.
I'm sure you are more familiar with Flores gloves than I. I heard that Flores used to hand make the gloves in his shop at home?

I remember that the Flores gloves required some breaking in, horse hair padding.
I never let anybody else use my Flores gloves, because after wearing them in, they were molded to my fists, felt custom made.
The Ray Flores training gloves were about the same design as your Everlast pair in the photo.

Being from up north, any memories of Ray Flores?


-Rick Farris

Rick,
It was true that Ray Flores made all of the gloves himself in a shop at his home, somewhere in the eastbay. Babe Griffin always supplied Flores gloves for the fights he promoted in Northern Cal. and somewhere I have an artical about Flores and the gloves, they were very prominent in NorCal. I will try to find the article and post it. Ray Lunny III always wore them in training and in any of his bouts that he had control of. I wore them only once when I fought at the Circle Star Theater as an amateur on a pro card, we were suppose to wear 10oz. gloves as amateurs but they didn't have any so we wore 8oz. gloves and I could not believe the differance that 2oz. made. I broke my opponents nose with the first right hand I threw that night and he bled for three rounds but he never folded, we brawled and I earned the decision. I am sure that today they would have stopped the fight becasue of the excess bleeding but it was a good fight and the fans showered us with coins after the final bell.
My Everlast training gloves in the picture fit so perfect even today if I pull them on I can remember how I loved the feel of them. Speaking of gloves, Eddie Booker the long ranked NorCal middleweight from the 30s and 40s who fought and beat just about everyone that mattered during that era but never gained a title fight ran the glove table at the SF Golden Gloves for years and my trainer made a point to tell me how I should take pride knowing that I was gloved by Eddie for my first fight in the GGs, I do.
Bruce

[raylawpc]

A Tuf-Wear memory . . .

Tom, your mention of Tuf-Wear headgear brought back a Jerry Quarry memory.
You might remember that Tuf-Wear manufactured a special headgear that was referred to as a "Birdcage".

The "Birdcage" had a metal bar that went down the front from the forehead, to a padded cross piece that was located infront of the mouth.
It looked kind of like a padded football helmet and was designed to protect the face from any contact with punches.
This design was effective in protecting a boxers face, allowing them to continue sparring while a broken nose or cut was healing.

Protecting a tender area was a good thing, but there were draw backs.
The bar running down the face really hampered a boxer's sight. All headgear cuts down on a boxers peripheral vision, but the birdcage more so.
Such equipment is good if nursing a broken nose, etc. but in general practice I discourage their use because it can make a boxer lazy.
With the headgear protecting the face, a boxer has less reason to concentrate on defense, which will cost him in a match.

However, what I saw at the Main Street Gym one saturday morning was enough to prevent me from wearing one unless absolutley necessary.
Jerry Quarry had a sparring partner that was a ten round club fighter here in L.A. His name was Dave Centi.
Centi was a big, tough, good natured Italian-American that proved a reliable sparring partner for the hard hitiing heavyweight contender.
Centi was with Jerry for several years, got busted up on a number of occasions. Broken nose, cracked ribs, the usual stuff.
Jerry was tough on the hired help. Dave Centi never complained.

A couple weeks after Jerry breaks Centi's nose in a sparring session, Dave returns to workout with Jerry wearing a Tuf-Wear "Birdcage".
I had just come out of the dressing room after finishing my workout. I took my place next to the ring to watch Jerry box with Centi.
I ask Johnny Flores about the strange looking headgear, which made the wearer's face look like a housefly.
Johnny explained what it was for and the sparring began.

After a couple rounds I notice Jerry is really teeing off on Centi's head with those short, chopping right-crosses he threw.
One of the rights catch Centi square on the bar running down the front of the mask.
The impact dislodged the bar from where it was attached to the mask, literally ramming it thru the forehead padding and into Centi's face.
The end of the bar impaled Centi right in the forehead. I heard the fighter grown as he turned away and grabbed his head.
Jerry stepped in to throw another shot, but saw that something was wrong and stepped back.
When Dave raised his head and turned to face us, blood was pouring down his face from under the headgear.

Teddy Bentham flew thru the ropes and pulled the headgear off the boxer, who had a nasty gash on his forehead right above his nose.
Centi was taken to the emergency room for stitches and the bloody, disfuntional headgear tossed into the spit bucket.
A couple years later I'd wear one myself breifly, after suffering a broken nose, but I was always careful not to get lazy and take unnecessary punches.

Generally speaking, a Tuf-Wear "Birdcage" was usually tough enough.
However, Dave Centi might have a different opinion.


-Rick Farris

I remember seeing pictures of that birdcage headgear. I remember O'Grady telling me that that headgear was "no good." I don't remember why he felt that way about it. Maybe he had heard that Dave Centi story. It kind of rang a bell the first time you wrote about it some months ago.

O'Grady also told me that the headgear had its origins with Rocky Marciano, who had it custom made after his second fight with Charles, when his nose was split in half, and he was afraid of reinjuring it while preparing for the Don Cockell fight.

Nowadays, Dave Centi would have retained one of my colleagues, and filed a product liability law suit against Tuf-Wear - and probably got rich in the process.

[kikibalt]

Just found out that old time L.A. fighter and trainer Mercer Smith has pass, Smith trained Henry Tillman.

[Rick Farris]

A Tuf-Wear memory . . .

Tom, your mention of Tuf-Wear headgear brought back a Jerry Quarry memory.
You might remember that Tuf-Wear manufactured a special headgear that was referred to as a "Birdcage".

The "Birdcage" had a metal bar that went down the front from the forehead, to a padded cross piece that was located infront of the mouth.
It looked kind of like a padded football helmet and was designed to protect the face from any contact with punches.
This design was effective in protecting a boxers face, allowing them to continue sparring while a broken nose or cut was healing.

Protecting a tender area was a good thing, but there were draw backs.
The bar running down the face really hampered a boxer's sight. All headgear cuts down on a boxers peripheral vision, but the birdcage more so.
Such equipment is good if nursing a broken nose, etc. but in general practice I discourage their use because it can make a boxer lazy.
With the headgear protecting the face, a boxer has less reason to concentrate on defense, which will cost him in a match.

However, what I saw at the Main Street Gym one saturday morning was enough to prevent me from wearing one unless absolutley necessary.
Jerry Quarry had a sparring partner that was a ten round club fighter here in L.A. His name was Dave Centi.
Centi was a big, tough, good natured Italian-American that proved a reliable sparring partner for the hard hitiing heavyweight contender.
Centi was with Jerry for several years, got busted up on a number of occasions. Broken nose, cracked ribs, the usual stuff.
Jerry was tough on the hired help. Dave Centi never complained.

A couple weeks after Jerry breaks Centi's nose in a sparring session, Dave returns to workout with Jerry wearing a Tuf-Wear "Birdcage".
I had just come out of the dressing room after finishing my workout. I took my place next to the ring to watch Jerry box with Centi.
I ask Johnny Flores about the strange looking headgear, which made the wearer's face look like a housefly.
Johnny explained what it was for and the sparring began.

After a couple rounds I notice Jerry is really teeing off on Centi's head with those short, chopping right-crosses he threw.
One of the rights catch Centi square on the bar running down the front of the mask.
The impact dislodged the bar from where it was attached to the mask, literally ramming it thru the forehead padding and into Centi's face.
The end of the bar impaled Centi right in the forehead. I heard the fighter grown as he turned away and grabbed his head.
Jerry stepped in to throw another shot, but saw that something was wrong and stepped back.
When Dave raised his head and turned to face us, blood was pouring down his face from under the headgear.

Teddy Bentham flew thru the ropes and pulled the headgear off the boxer, who had a nasty gash on his forehead right above his nose.
Centi was taken to the emergency room for stitches and the bloody, disfuntional headgear tossed into the spit bucket.
A couple years later I'd wear one myself breifly, after suffering a broken nose, but I was always careful not to get lazy and take unnecessary punches.

Generally speaking, a Tuf-Wear "Birdcage" was usually tough enough.
However, Dave Centi might have a different opinion.


-Rick Farris

I remember seeing pictures of that birdcage headgear. I remember O'Grady telling me that that headgear was "no good." I don't remember why he felt that way about it. Maybe he had heard that Dave Centi story. It kind of rang a bell the first time you wrote about it some months ago.

O'Grady also told me that the headgear had its origins with Rocky Marciano, who had it custom made after his second fight with Charles, when his nose was split in half, and he was afraid of reinjuring it while preparing for the Don Cockell fight.

Nowadays, Dave Centi would have retained one of my colleagues, and filed a product liability law suit against Tuf-Wear - and probably got rich in the process.

Tom . . . Thanks for the history on the origin of the birdcage.
The time I wore one in the gym it was very hard to see thru. And it was very heavy, uncomfortable.
You'd catch more punches, it would minimize your head movement. Yeah, it was crap!


-Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

Just found out that old time L.A. fighter and trainer Mercer Smith has pass, Smith trained Henry Tillman.

boxer: Mercer Smith

division lightweight
nationality United States
alias Tiger

residence Los Angeles, California, United States
won 19 (KO 7) + lost 7 (KO 0) + drawn 4 = 30
rounds boxed 145 : KO% 23.33

1969-02-19 141 Benito Juarez 141 36-31-6
Las Vegas, Nevada, United States L PTS 6 6

1969-01-23 139 Benito Juarez 139 36-31-5
Las Vegas, Nevada, United States D PTS 6 6

1965-07-01 Danny Valdez 28-8-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L UD 12 12
~ referee: Lee Grossman 4-8 | judge: Tommy Hart 4-8 | judge: John Thomas 3-10 ~
California State Featherweight Title

1964-10-08 130 Larry Flores 130 12-9-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States D TD 1 10

1964-07-29 Manny Ramirez 8-0-0
San Jose, California, United States D TD 1

1964-07-07 129 Baby Felix 128 2-3-0
Castaways Hotel, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States W KO 1

1964-06-09 129 Daniel Valdez 131¼ 16-9-1
Valley Garden Arena, North Hollywood, California, United States W PTS 6 6

1964-04-28 128½ Beto Maldonado 126½ 32-11-3
Valley Garden Arena, North Hollywood, California, United States W PTS 6 6

1964-03-31 137 Fernando Gomez 135 11-12-3
Valley Garden Arena, North Hollywood, California, United States W TKO 4 6
Gomez was stopped on a cut.

1964-03-19 135 Gabriel Brambila 134 1-8-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 5 5

1964-02-18 133 Rodolfo Lopez 134 5-3-1
Valley Garden Arena, North Hollywood, California, United States W PTS 5 5

1964-02-13 133 Fernando Gomez 134 11-12-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States D PTS 5 5

1964-01-23 130 Larry Flores 130½ 11-9-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L PTS 8 8
~ 30-4 ~

1963-12-12 135 Mickey Davitt 137 9-3-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1961-03-17 Matt Mullane 7-2-2
University Club, Boston, Massachusetts, United States L PTS 6 6

1961-01-09 131 Tommy Thibault 135 1-1-1
Rhode Island Auditorium, Providence, Rhode Island, United States W PTS 6 6

1960-12-19 Lionel Butler 1-7-1
Providence, Rhode Island, United States W KO 3

1960-10-03 132½ Gene Fosmire 130 6-1-1
Rhode Island Auditorium, Providence, Rhode Island, United States L PTS 6 6

1960-09-26 131½ Carmelo Acevedo 127 8-3-0
Auditorium, Providence, Rhode Island, United States W SD 6 6

1960-07-19 Ken Tavares 3-2-0
New Bedford, Massachusetts, United States L PTS 6 6

1960-06-10 Tommy Thibault 1-0-1
Boston Garden, Boston, Massachusetts, United States W PTS 4 4

1960-04-11 134 Henry Robinson 138½ 0-2-0
Providence, Rhode Island, United States W PTS 6 6

1960-03-14 133¾ Peter Bonelli 136 0-1-0
Providence, Rhode Island, United States W TKO 1

1960-02-22 135 Ricky Palmieri 131 1-4-1
Providence, Rhode Island, United States W PTS 6 6

1960-01-25 132½ Bobby Soares 132 21-20-1
Arcadia Ballroom, Providence, Rhode Island, United States L SD 6 6

1960-01-11 132½ Al Scalzo 132 1-3-0
Providence, Rhode Island, United States W TKO 4 6

1959-11-09 Al Scalzo 1-1-0
Providence, Rhode Island, United States W PTS 6 6

1959-11-02 Willie Lopez 0-0-0
Providence, Rhode Island, United States W KO 2

1959-10-12 Bob Shaughnessy 10-9-1
Providence, Rhode Island, United States W PTS 4 4

1959-08-25 Johnny Lee 0-0-0
Providence, Rhode Island, United States W KO 3

[Rick Farris]

Just found out that old time L.A. fighter and trainer Mercer Smith has pass, Smith trained Henry Tillman.

Frank . . .

I was a Danny Valdez fan, and I recall him fighting Mercer Smith on TV from the Olympic.
It was one of Cal & Aileen Eaton's earliest televised cards, on KTLA in 1965.
I knew Mercer Smith was a trainer, but never met him.



-Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

Just found out that old time L.A. fighter and trainer Mercer Smith has pass, Smith trained Henry Tillman.

Frank . . .

I was a Danny Valdez fan, and I recall him fighting Mercer Smith on TV from the Olympic.
It was one of Cal & Aileen Eaton's earliest televised cards, on KTLA in 1965.
I knew Mercer Smith was a trainer, but never met him.



-Rick Farris

Rick...I knew Mercer, but not well, I seen him fight a few time, I was there for the Danny Valdez fight at the old fight house,
"The Olympic"

[Expug]

Speaking of robes and gear , an ex welterweight from here in Chicago who Ive known a long time recently told me a funny story.
Hes now a respected referee but his pro career was cut short by a detached retina . This was back in the late seventies.
When he retired, as a token of appreciation to his manager, he gave the manager his robe. It was a nice purple with the fighters name on the back.
A couple years go by and the former welter decides to go to a local fight card one night.
Hes sitting in the crowd with his girlfriend when lo and behold here comes another fighter down the aisle to the ring with the ex welters robe on.
Seems his former manager gave a nice gift to his new fighter. A nice purple robe with the lettering changed on the back to match his new tiger.
Thats boxing for ya.

Maybe someone else can use it? . . .

Great story, Brian. In 1969, after nearly fifteen years as a pro, my favorite featherweight Dwight Hawkins was KOed by Antonio Gomez at the Forum and retired from boxing.
I saw him the next day at the Main Street Gym. He'd come to visit, I thought, but it was just a brief stop.
The Hawk had a big gym bag full of equipment, training gear, robe, trucks, shoes, everything he had.
He went in with the bag and handed to his co-manager, Hal Benson. "I won't need these anymore," he said, "Maybe somebody else can use them."

Benson put his hand on Dwight's shoulder and said, "Lionel Rose lost his bantam title last night to Olivares, after your fight. Rose can't make 118 lbs anymore so Parnassus wants to match you and he at featherweight, the winner to get a title shot!. Rose can't beat you."

The fighter smiled, he'd heard the "winner gets a title fight" too many times before. He'd always win and never get the title shot.
As he said before, "Maybe somebody else can use this equipment."

He handed the bag to Benson, gave Johnny Flores a hug, and he left the Main Street Gym for the last time as a boxer.
It would be more than a year before he'd return, and when he did, he returned as a trainer. He would train Mac Foster and myself for Flores.

I don't know whatever happened his equipment, but Dwight Hawkins was my all-time boxing idol. He never disappointed me in or out of the ring.


-Rick Farris

Dwight Hawkins sounds like a very honorable man Rick.
I can see why you held him in such high regard. You two have alot in common.

I think all boxers have another fighter who they look up to and respect.
They may not always admit it, but there is something that clicks. There is a guy whos way of conducting himself may make a positive impression.
There was a guy who I respected quite a bit named Henry Sims. We sparred often, but it was the guys way of helping me out with things here and there that I really appreciated. He was a good guy.
He fought some good guys like Mike Rossman, but it was his way of getting things across that I remember well.
He was a journeyman for sure, but I always liked the way a journeyman rolled. No frills, no bulls..t , no entourage, no sh.t talk . Just a real fighter.
A stand up guy.

[Rick Farris]

Our Manager . . .
________________

I'm going along too but if Mel shows up I'm staying home! No one could ruin a good time like our own Mel Epstein. God Bless his devious little heart!

Randy DD
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________-

Good call, Randy.
Mel was like a turd in the punch bowl.


-Rick Farris

[bennie]

Pryor would have loved this. No pic and Alexis wasn't even the champion (well, not technically but he will always be a champion).

[Rick Farris]

Question for Randy . . .

Did Mel ever tell you his joke about "obstinate kid?"
I won't attempt to tell it here because it could only be funny the way Mel told it.
Mel would really become animated when telling this story.


-Rick

[kikibalt]

We interviewed Carlos Ortiz on camera in 2007.

-Rick Farris

[Randyman]

Question for Randy . . .

Did Mel ever tell you his joke about "obstinate kid?"
I won't attempt to tell it here because it could only be funny the way Mel told it.
Mel would really become animated when telling this story.


-Rick

Rick, that was Mel's favorite joke "the obstinate kid". I'm no good at telling it but Mel would really get into it. There was another joke that Mel told about the wife who got slapped up the head for "knowing the difference". I should have wrote them down. Thanks for the memory.

Randy

[raylawpc]

Telling lousy jokes in a distinctive way must be a prerequiste to being a boxing curmudgeon. O'Grady knew a million of them. When he told them, they were kind of funny. Anybody try to repeat them, and they'd fall flat.

[raylawpc]

We interviewed Carlos Ortiz on camera in 2007.

-Rick Farris

What a great champion!! Is a copy of that interview available anywhere, Rick?

[Rick Farris]

Question for Randy . . .

Did Mel ever tell you his joke about "obstinate kid?"
I won't attempt to tell it here because it could only be funny the way Mel told it.
Mel would really become animated when telling this story.


-Rick

Rick, that was Mel's favorite joke "the obstinate kid". I'm no good at telling it but Mel would really get into it. There was another joke that Mel told about the wife who got slapped up the head for "knowing the difference". I should have wrote them down. Thanks for the memory.

Randy

"Knowing the Difference".

Yes, I remember that well.
I remember it word-for-word. When Mel would tell it, he'd have an evil look in his old eyes when he gave the punch-line:
"For knowing the difference."

Here is an interesting conversation, Mel Epstein one-on-one with attorney Gloria Allred, regarding domestic issues.
I'd love to see him tell her that one!


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

We interviewed Carlos Ortiz on camera in 2007.

-Rick Farris

What a great champion!! Is a copy of that interview available anywhere, Rick?

Interviews . . .

Tom . . . Dan Hanley and I also interviewed Mando Ramos, El Gato Gonzalez, Armando Muniz, Yaqui Lopez, George Benton and a few others that day.
We shot it in Hi-Def and have a rough edit that will be complete in a few months.

At the time, we wanted to catch the interview, assuring us of having it when ready to edit and use.
As soon as we have things together, we'll post all of the interviews here.

Our interview with Mando Ramos would be the very last "on camera" for the former lightweight champ.
He would pass away eight months later. This was verified by Sylvia Ramos, and it was Mando Ramos at his best.

Dan Hanley put together some incredible "spur-of-the-moment" interviews, particularly an unexpected talk with ref Lou Filippo.
Filippo was put before us with no preperation. It was a last minute request so we just went with it.
We'd take 20 minutes between interviews to transfer copy to a hard-drive. We had time issue, a few hours to film as many as possible.
We lit and photographed it professionally, we tried to avoid that spur-of-the-moment type interview. Time was of the essence that day.
We'd pull a legend out of the memorabelia show, sit him down, talk to them for a half-hour, then grab another during the video transfer.
Dan went to our lap top and into Boxrec, where Filippo's boxing record was accessed.
Dan studied the names, dates, etc. and from that put on a very cool interview with Lou.

Between the two of us, in the same room with L.A. boxing legends, we end up with some great interviews.
We discovered that you never know what might happen. These guys are unpredictable and the result is always priceless.


-Rick Farris

[Randyman]

Jeri and I had dinner at Jack's Whittier Restaurant on Whittier Bl. It's a throwback restaurant with, with Tuna Melts, Liver and Onions, Fried Chicken and all the old standards that we grew up with. They've made concessions to the changing demographics in the last few years and added a few Mexican items on the menu but I haven't tried any of them yet.

There was another Jacks going west on Whittier bl that was our real favorite. The owner retired and sold the business. He did good business for a few years until he tried to get fancy and high faluting and changed his menu. The building has been empty for eight years.

While at the restaurant I had another Mel Epstein memory. I ordered a glass of buttermilk and that got the memories of Mel rolling. Growing up I hated buttermilk. Couldn't stand it. One day after working out at the Main Street Gym, Mel took me to his apartment for dinner. I say took, because with Mel, there really was no choice, you were going. At his house he served me a glass of buttermilk. The very thought was horrifying and I told him "Mel, no way am I going to drink buttermilk". I guess he saw that as a challenge and bugged me until I finally gave up and took a small drink. Wonders of wonders, I loved it and I've been drinking it ever since. I think of him every single time. I tell my wife every single time too. She says "I know you told me before" and under her breath in barely a whisper I can hear "At least a thousand times". Then she smiles and pretends she's listening to me.

Same thing with Cole Slaw. I hated it. It was one of those things that made me gag. Today it's one of my favorite sides. Same story to Jeri. same reaction. Mel cooked me my first omelet and showed me how to make one. I mastered the art of omelet making when I was a short order cook for JoJo's restaurant. He taught me how to make a Swiss Steak and just so many other things that I had never heard of. More importantly, as difficult as it could eating at a restaurant with the old geezer, he taught me how to order a good meal, and how to not settle for sloppy service.

Mel was a cook in the Merchant Marines. He was as comfortable in the kitchen as he was in the gym and in the ring. Just as he was in all things boxing, he loved to share his knowledge (if you were worthy). He loved to cook for anyone and everyone. I'm sure Rick remembers.

Randy

[Randyman]

Question for Randy . . .

Did Mel ever tell you his joke about "obstinate kid?"
I won't attempt to tell it here because it could only be funny the way Mel told it.
Mel would really become animated when telling this story.


-Rick

Rick, that was Mel's favorite joke "the obstinate kid". I'm no good at telling it but Mel would really get into it. There was another joke that Mel told about the wife who got slapped up the head for "knowing the difference". I should have wrote them down. Thanks for the memory.

Randy

"Knowing the Difference".

Yes, I remember that well.
I remember it word-for-word. When Mel would tell it, he'd have an evil look in his old eyes when he gave the punch-line:
"For knowing the difference."

Here is an interesting conversation, Mel Epstein one-on-one with attorney Gloria Allred, regarding domestic issues.
I'd love to see him tell her that one!


-Rick Farris

"Knowing the Difference" is a joke that would no longer be funny to the younger generation. It would puzzle them. It drew on old school values. When Mel said the punch line with that look of evil in his eyes it was because he was dead serious when he said it. Which of course made it all the funnier when he told it.

Randy

[Randyman]

Telling lousy jokes in a distinctive way must be a prerequiste to being a boxing curmudgeon. O'Grady knew a million of them. When he told them, they were kind of funny. Anybody try to repeat them, and they'd fall flat.

Tom, You can imagine how it was at the gym back in those days. Everyone was wannabe comedian. Sometimes just the fact that they thought they were funny was enough to make you burst out laughing. Luckily, if you timed it right, they never knew the difference. Mel never figured it out.

Randy

[Randyman]

We interviewed Carlos Ortiz on camera in 2007.

-Rick Farris

The day after the World Boxing Hall of Fame's dinner, Ed, Jeri and I were having breakfast at the hotel's cafe. In walks Carlos Ortiz, a legend and he looks at our table, comes over, shakes our hands and talks to us for a few minutes. A legend, and a regular guy. Same thing with "El Gato". Champions in the ring and Champions in life. You have to respect men like that. They've earned it!

Randy

[Randyman]

Pryor would have loved this. No pic and Alexis wasn't even the champion (well, not technically but he will always be a champion).

This was the fight that really made Pryor's career. After the fight he got more respect.

Randy