Off topic - Footie.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 07 Sep 2004, 09:31

Phoenix wrote:agreed england are overrated, I was more surprised than anyone when they held their own against france in the summer.

Beckham is way overhyped, he's not on Zidane's level no matter what our press say. He does have the best long range passing and free kick taking in the world, I'm pretty confident on that. But aside from that he shows little else, a high workrate perhaps. If anything he breaks our play up too much by spraying those long, slow balls around when we could be playing faster, touch football on the ground.

Owen is being slowly exposed as a good but not world class striker, his one trick (control outside of the boot, shunting the ball forward a little then quick turn by the box) won't work when his pace starts to drop.

Rooney is good but again way overhyped, the press make him out to be maradona or something and he's yet to show anywhere near that level of skill. He can strike the ball though and shows a surprising burst of pace I'll give him that, clever inside passing too.

Gerrard is for me our best player and probably the only england player you could pick for a world XI. He's aggressive, can tackle, pass long, provide the through ball, shoot, cross, pretty much everything.

So Beckham has the best long passing in the game, is the best free-kick taker in the world and a high workrate according to you but the press overhype him!

The problem with England is

a) the manager - how can any manager take over three seasons and 40 games to try Bridge-Cole for the first time and wait for an away qualifier to do it?!!!! Why not do it in the friendly - isn't that what they're for?
b) one dimensional long ball game focussed on Gerrard, Neville and Beckham twatting it forward for Owen to run onto.
c) players played out of position.
d) a tactical shallowness not seen since Graham Taylor was around. How can a man who has made more substitutions that SNetwork matchmakers not be very good at them when it MATTERS.
e) how come since we reduced the league to 38 games, excused the top sides from league cup, we barely play any friendlies and when we do they only play 45 minutes each and all players play for squad rotating clubs and yet they're all knackered after 60 minutes and cant defend a lead?

The guy is a PR creation. England have the most capable squad in living memory and we're still CHUFFED to get to the quarters.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 07 Sep 2004, 09:43

J wrote:we werent discussing your mental age Mr monkey!

I'm gonna tell my mummy on you. :x

J · Post by J » 07 Sep 2004, 09:46

and your not coming to my birthday party so theeerre

u not coming friday dude? be able to get tickets on the door , come on you know you want to.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 07 Sep 2004, 09:53

I do want to, now that it's so close. But my auntie is bringing her husband-to-be down for the weekend to meet the family, so it's off to the house in France for me.

Fingers crossed my cousins won't discover my porn stash while i'm away.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 07 Sep 2004, 09:55

BubiScholz wrote: you can listen to every expert on the globe (except from the isle) nobody would say that england has always had the best goalkeepers in Europe. thát´s the biggest bullshit in sports that i ever heard. e.g. Seaman is someone we would say is a "flycatcher" only watch the world cup 2002. Shilton was good, o.k. but not more.

why has the english premier league the highest percentage of foreign keepers of all major football leagues in europe?

Seaman was best keeper at euro 1996 by a mile. I'd say he was best at world Cup 2002 but got out done by a cross/shot from nowhere.

The English premier league has highest percentage of foreigners in every position I would have thought mainly because it is cheaper to buy a good foreigner than buy a good british player.

Whoever suggested Toldo or Buffon are great keepers needs their eyes tested. Certainly good by mainland europe's standards but England - not a chance. I'd rather put Paul Robinson in goal any day of the week. Carlo Cudicini's ok but I'm always skeptical about goalkeepers who've come from a smaller club and found success. A bit like Brad Friedal. Way out of his depth at Liverpool but found his level at Blackburn. Would or should either Cudicini or Friedal be in England squad because of a good few seasons... answer is no.

There are only two recent England goalkeepers I am wary of. David James (almost a typical european goalkeeper) and Ian Walker (same argument but not quite as good)

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 07 Sep 2004, 09:59

Phoenix wrote:Rooney is good but again way overhyped, the press make him out to be maradona or something and he's yet to show anywhere near that level of skill. He can strike the ball though and shows a surprising burst of pace I'll give him that, clever inside passing too.

Rooney is the best player England have had since Gascoigne.

Gerrard might be able to do all those things but he's not on Rooney's level.

J · Post by J » 07 Sep 2004, 10:02

glittermonkey wrote:I do want to, now that it's so close. But my auntie is bringing her husband-to-be down for the weekend to meet the family, so it's off to the house in France for me.

Fingers crossed my cousins won't discover my porn stash while i'm away.

Shame mate another time then:
and more a case of "spankurmonkey" than Glittermonkey!!!!!

As for the above post from Match Fixer come on mate, Friedel is one of the best keepers in the league, Id rather have him in goal than James on Weds. (apart form the fact he isnt english made my views clear on such matters)

Poor old Dave has had his chance now Im afraid, he neoither has the bottle nor the technique to be a decent internaitonal keeper Im afraid, one clanger too many.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 07 Sep 2004, 10:22

@Matchfixer: disagree, IMO Gerrard is at least on Rooney's level. They're different players though so its not easy to make a comparison like that.

So Beckham has the best long passing in the game, is the best free-kick taker in the world and a high workrate according to you but the press overhype him!

yes, before every crucial game we read about 'Beckham can win it for us' etc etc, but barring us getting a free kick in sight of goal how exactly is he going to do that? I'm not saying he's useless or anything, just that he has very specific attributes and doesn't give us the creative, match-winning options that a player of Zidane's calibre would.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 07 Sep 2004, 10:58

J wrote: As for the above post from Match Fixer come on mate, Friedel is one of the best keepers in the league, Id rather have him in goal than James on Weds. (apart form the fact he isnt english made my views clear on such matters)

Maybe I was a little hasty on Friedal and Cudicini. Don't get me wrong I'm not underestimating their achievements over the past few seasons. They have been the best two probably although I also like Van Der Saar and Tim Howard.

The point I'm trying to make is probably best explained like this...

James Beattie, Kevin Phillips, Andy Cole etc have all had excellent club success. However, I believe none of them are equipped for international football because they are lacking that certain something which is possibly through not having played at the highest level with success early enough in their careers. This is my point for the GKs.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 07 Sep 2004, 11:08

All of this analysis of individuals is of course total shit anyway as a team is more than the sum of its parts.

Greece 04 are evidence of that.

Its time we started picking a TEAM not a Telegraph fantasy team which what SGE was doing when he picked Scholes-Gerrard-Beckham-Lampard....they'd get shit-loads in the Telegraph fantasy football, but they'll get you exactly NOWHERE ON GRASS.

The last time we won owt we built a team, Greavsey was on the bench.

I think SGE is shit at his job. And I wont be told owt different.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 07 Sep 2004, 11:11

DavidPayne wrote:All of this analysis of individuals is of course total shit anyway as a team is more than the sum of its parts.

Greece 04 are evidence of that.

Its time we started picking a TEAM not a Telegraph fantasy team which what SGE was doing when he picked Scholes-Gerrard-Beckham-Lampard....they'd get shit-loads in the Telegraph fantasy football, but they'll get you exactly NOWHERE ON GRASS.

I think SGE is shit at his job. And I wont be told owt different.

Maybe but imagine the public's response if he started a more natural left sided player and flopped. Like Wayne Bridge agaist Austria for example. (I know he's a left back but you see what I'm getting at)

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 07 Sep 2004, 11:12

agreed and not just because you are a fellow Yorkshireman

In reality I don't give a toss about England anymore. SGE has managed to leech out all the passion from the team and they play like they have to tug around a couple of Volvo's

As long as The Millers stay up, my season will be a good one whatever England do

Slapsie

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 07 Sep 2004, 11:24

I too have become disenchanted and defranchised (probably the wrong words but it makes me sound like I read the Telegraph) from the England team - they're merely an extension of the champions league and are totally uninterested in performing for their country.

And to me the England set-up acts as little more than a chat up line and dating agency for Sven.

He gets paid 3 times what anyone else gets, does half the job and when it came to the nitty gritty he didn't have a fkking clue.

Imagine what Stuart Pearce or Terry Butcher would have made of the contribution of our current captain marvel or a squad including over-paid wankers like Keiron Dyer!

Its a playboy team that is underachieving becuase SGEpicks it like a FIFA 2005 PS2 GAME cover. You'd think he was on a percentage for shirt sales.

Over the past three years Owen and Beckham and James have all underperformed and they still get picked, Iknow class is permanent - form is temporary and all that crap.....but fkk me..

If Peter Beagrie was the best left-midfielder we had, I'd pick him.

Too much square peg - round hole mentality.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 07 Sep 2004, 12:41

If only Jason Koumas wasn't Welsh, hey?

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 07 Sep 2004, 12:54

Guest wrote:If only Jason Koumas wasn't Welsh, hey?

Jason Koumas is without a doubt one of the most overrated players I have ever seen. Saw him when he was playing in division one and he barely stood out then.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 07 Sep 2004, 12:56

DavidPayne wrote:Over the past three years Owen and Beckham and James have all underperformed and they still get picked, Iknow class is permanent - form is temporary and all that crap.....but fkk me..

Owen and Beckham have been the most successful players under SGE. Just look at the number of goals they have contributed out of all England goals. It's even higher when looking at competitive games only.

Exile · Post by **Exile** » 07 Sep 2004, 13:51

neil r wrote:
Exile wrote:

Walter Smith or Gordon Strachan will be the next Gaffer of Scotland.

strachan yes, but smith has no record whatseever other than at rangers where he was admittedly succesful but only due to the fact that he had barrels of money given to him and the opposition, celtic included, were so bad.

put him in a situation like he was in at everton where he was a smaller fish in a much larger pool, very similar to scotland right now, and look at his acheivements there.

incidently im not a celtic supporter, or rangers for that matter, before i get the accusations of bias thrown at me!

Im noy saying i want Smith as manager, its just that i feel the SFA see him as a safer option as there is always going to be premiership teams interested in Strachan.

Either of these 2 would get us playing for the cause more than Berti McVogts in my opinion. I just pray he keeps the same midfield for the match against Slovenia as it finally looks quite decent with Ferguson, Fletcher, Mcnamara and Quashie seemingly doing the business.

As long as they dont bring back "Mr Stats" Craig Brown

By the way, bring on Barca, Milan and Shaktar