Is Arguello the best ever at 130lbs?

[Rocky Balboa]

I believe a strong case can be made for Alexis to be considered the best ever at Super-Feather/Junior Lightweight!

Discuss...

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I would say either Alexis or Mayweather.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Should have been Saddler, though.

[giacomino]

I think Money was unbeatable at 130, but I think Arguello's run from early 1979 to late 1980 was the best the division has ever seen. During less than two years, he defeated Escalera, Bazooka Limon, Bobby Chacon, Rolando Navarrete, Boza-Edwards and Jose Luis Ramirez, all former or future champions. And in between he KO'd a 46-0 Ruben Castillo.
I might also toss Azumah Nelson and J.C. Chavez, who had nine title defenses at junior lightweight, into the discussion

[My2Sense]

He was arguably the best ever to hold the title, but I think the best 130-pound fighter ever was Henry Armstrong.

[dempseyfire]

If you are only counting people who held 130 lb titles, I'd say Sandy Saddler is #1.

[elmersalsa]

It got to be Flash Elorde as the greatest jr lightweight ever.

[gensu3k1]

Arguello above featherweight is overrated, in my opinion. Chacon was outboxing him badly before the cut, and guys like Boza-Edwards and Limon were made to order for a slugger like Alexis.

[Seamus]

Eligio Sardinias Montalvo

[Collins2000]

Arguello above featherweight is overrated, in my opinion. Chacon was outboxing him badly before the cut, and guys like Boza-Edwards and Limon were made to order for a slugger like Alexis.

'slugger'?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Arguello above featherweight is overrated, in my opinion. Chacon was outboxing him badly before the cut, and guys like Boza-Edwards and Limon were made to order for a slugger like Alexis.

Huh?

Chacon was an excellent fighter for one. Secondly, while the fight was stopped on a cut, he was nearly decapitated and floored by a vicious UC and that something to do with the stoppage as well. Out boxing him for 6 rds and lasting 8 more when he has found his range are two different things. And lastly, just because a guy has tremendous power and is a bit slow on his feet doesn't make him a crude slugger.

It's pretty difficult to over rate a guy who faced top notch competition and lost 3 fights. One non title and two to Pryor.

[Ezzard]

http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f ... &hilit=130

Tried a similar topic a while back.

Can't think of a fighter I'd back against Saddler.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f ... &hilit=130

Tried a similar topic a while back.

Can't think of a fighter I'd back against Saddler.

I'd back Elorde with a reasonable ref.

[Counter-puncher]

Arguello above featherweight is overrated, in my opinion. Chacon was outboxing him badly before the cut, and guys like Boza-Edwards and Limon were made to order for a slugger like Alexis.

Huh?

Chacon was an excellent fighter for one. Secondly, while the fight was stopped on a cut, he was nearly decapitated and floored by a vicious UC and that something to do with the stoppage as well. Out boxing him for 6 rds and lasting 8 more when he has found his range are two different things. And lastly, just because a guy has tremendous power and is a bit slow on his feet doesn't make him a crude slugger.

It's pretty difficult to over rate a guy who faced top notch competition and lost 3 fights. One non title and two to Pryor.

indeed. as cosell used to say, 'the word on Arguello is that you can only outbox him for so long....'

[gensu3k1]

Arguello WAS a slugger. A great one, but it's silly to argue he wasn't a slugger who had trouble with speed.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He had trouble with movement more so than speed. The term would be boxer/puncher bro. Alexis was far more than some crude slugger. Silly is calling him overrated above 26. I think he was better at 30 & 35 than he was at featherweight.

[gensu3k1]

Arguello above featherweight is overrated, in my opinion. Chacon was outboxing him badly before the cut, and guys like Boza-Edwards and Limon were made to order for a slugger like Alexis.

Huh?

Chacon was an excellent fighter for one. Secondly, while the fight was stopped on a cut, he was nearly decapitated and floored by a vicious UC and that something to do with the stoppage as well. Out boxing him for 6 rds and lasting 8 more when he has found his range are two different things. And lastly, just because a guy has tremendous power and is a bit slow on his feet doesn't make him a crude slugger.

It's pretty difficult to over rate a guy who faced top notch competition and lost 3 fights. One non title and two to Pryor.

I said he was a slugger, not a crude slugger. And he was a slugger- a slow guy who relied on gigantic power as the equalizer.

4 months after his fight with Arguello, Chacon looked basically shot in his gift decision win over Limon in their third fight. This was the Chacon who was getting beat up so often that his wife committed suicide, not the Chacon who rededicated himself and KO'd Limon. Who the hell did Chacon ever outbox anyway? He was an excellent fighter, sure, but hardly an alltimer, and hardly a boxer. Yet he boxed circles around Arguello, and didn't get knocked down until after the horrific cut. And it's disingenuous to claim that the knockdown had much to do with the stoppage. That cut was horrific and the fight was going to get stopped quickly in any case.

The only hall of fame caliber fighter Arguello faced at 130 or 135 was Jose Luis Ramirez, and Ramirez knocked him down and almost won a split decision. Arguello also got outboxed by the mediocre Vilomar Fernandez (who didn't do all that badly in their last fight either). It's notable that Fernandez was the only really slick boxer that Arguello ever fought in this period. All his good/better opponents in title fights were punchers like Chacon or facefirst sluggers like Limon and Mancini. When he finally got to an elite guy who could box, he got KO'd by Pryor.

Yes Arguello was great, but hardly the best ever at 130.

[gensu3k1]

If he was a boxer puncher he wouldn't have been outboxed by guys like Fernandez and Chacon.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I guess Roberto Duran was just a slugger as well?

Here is rd 7 of Arguello/Chacon. You sure the only reason Alexis won was due to a cut? He was getting his ass kicked. Bobby fought well for 5 rds. Big freaking deal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9X6lSk3b1c

[Goodnight, Irene]

You, apparently, cannot distinguish between slugger & boxer-puncher, Gensu.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You, apparently, cannot distinguish between slugger & boxer-puncher, Gensu.

It's pretty trivial to site one fight out of 80 when a guy has an off night against the wrong style.

[JC]

I guess Roberto Duran was just a slugger as well?

Here is rd 7 of Arguello/Chacon. You sure the only reason Alexis won was due to a cut? He was getting his ass kicked. Bobby fought well for 5 rds. Big freaking deal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9X6lSk3b1c

When I watch US fights from the 70/80s I find the commentary so much better than anyone around today. That link is a good example, pointing out the important stuff in an interesting way, shutting up when necessary and not trying to get overly technical.

[Counter-puncher]

You, apparently, cannot distinguish between slugger & boxer-puncher, Gensu.

gensu i assume you have seen some of Danny Little Red Lopez?

i think he is closer to the outright slugger that you describe, than Arguello was

Chacon was also outboxing Lopez, the difference being, Lopez wasn't accomplished enough to eventually catch up with him, as Arguello did.

from memory, the last round of the Chacon- Arguello fight includes Alexis TRIPLING up with a left hook to the body.

[Mr E]

I'd probably match Arguello with Henry Armstrong to determine the all-time 130 pound champ.

[I Feel Fine]

Best ever? No. But he had one of the better runs as champion in that weight class, arguably the best title reign there in terms of who he beat and his numerous defenses there. I don't think it is fair to mention what he did at Lightweight as though that has any relevance, and he did beat up Chacon at the end of that fight. Cuts are as legitimate as any other way of winning, it doesn't particularly matter how he won, and Chacon is indeed a good name on your resume. Lets also not forget the Escalera wins. I think his title reign was better than Mayweather's there, as good as Floyd's was.