Crowd violence behaviour at the MEN

[whatashambles]

Just in regard to the stewarding, at Khan Barrera it was similar, I saw a fight kick off not far from me and nothing was done.
This is in part because the MEN will hire the people in yellow jackets to work inside the arena for all events where the majority of them will be people like Hannah Montana or Girls Aloud. A lot of the stewards will also be women or young people and not want to jump between two large groups of lads smakcing each other.
I think the large majority of them won't be licensed either which means that the stewards aren't officially allowed to start grabbing people and stopping them from fighting.
SIA licensed people would have to be brought in, who cost more, and I'm not sure who would foot the bill; the promoter or the MEN. Also if you wanted more police you'd have to pay for that too of course cutting into profit margins, which niether side will want to do.
Hence you get people fighting and nobody to intervene.

[whicker]

Can't believe no-one did anything either. Not disrespecting the posters who saw it happen by the way, but surely some bystanders next to the assaulted persons would have at least told the guy to stop hitting a women.

It's one of those things, this sort of thing tends to happen very very quickly- this guy came over, and punched the man, then his girlfriend was screaming to stop, and the guy hit her too. People were nearby shouting at them, calling for secuirty etc, then the thug backed off.

Because of the crowded nature of the seating, its not easy to react in time.

Just to add- I don't think there were any racial undertones - just a fan of Small being targetted.

I'm quite dark skinned, I've never felt any direct fear of trouble against me for simply racial reasons at a boxing match.

[whiskey]

What b*stard though.

Im surprised nobody had a camera phone or something to photo him for later.

[whicker]

What b*stard though.

Im surprised nobody had a camera phone or something to photo him for later.

When he couple went away, someone did hand the staff a camera- I assumed it was recorded footage, but now I'd guess it was just their (one of the couples) phones they had dropped.

[standing8]

Yes this trouble maker was clearly visable from ringside,after the sill twat started on some-one.
In went the butlins yellow blazer mob,then he punches another individual,security + police follow.F*cking disgracefull,grow up you tosser!

[whiskey]

Just seen the lads picture.

Big black eye and a broken nose.

Mrs is shaken but otherwise ok.

[davidas]

he should report it, get cctv of the thug and ID him

[whicker]

he should report it, get cctv of the thug and ID him

Yes, and myself and other who were from the crowd can also offer help if needed.

[whicker]

Just seen the lads picture.

Big black eye and a broken nose.

Mrs is shaken but otherwise ok.

Where does he post?

Sounds like the same person.

[McCannW14]

Well, my enjoyment of the even was ruined by one man, who after the Small-Hall fight felt it necessary to punch a guy in the crowd in the face- who had done nothing other than cheer for Small. When the guy's (who was punched) girlfriend reacted, SHE was hit in the face by this man too.

Disgraceful. I assume this man was a "fan" of Hall, but what is shockin too is that there didn't seem to even be a responce- the injured couple were taken away, and didn't return to their seats, but at no point did anyone come back to ask for a description, name and address (in case witnesses were needed etc)

I'm not sure what happened to the puncher.

But again- this was a large, muscluar man who punched two much smaller people in the face, including a woman. Cowardly , and puts people- including myself- of going to boxing.


(Note- title editted to be less emotive.)

I am afraid that that is typical manc pissheads for you. Anyway the main thing is that Small bashed up their boy Hall. Ive never enjoyed going to fights in Manchester cant fooking stand the place. Give me London, Liverpool, Glasgow, Birmingham, Dublin or Belfast, but fook Manchester.

[oliverfennell]

WHAT IS IT WITH MANCHESTER FANS?

I've asked this before and just had the Mancunians of this board get defensive, but I insist it's an undeniable fact - at least in my experience, and others seem to have experienced similar - that Manchester is the worst place in the UK for violent/intimidating/racist fans.

Now I know the good people of this board, and any other knowledgeable fans from the city, are not of that number, but 90% o the times I've felt uncomfortable at a boxing event due to crowd beahviour has been in Manchester.

Why is that??

And Matthew Hall, while I don't wish to comment too much since I don't know the bloke, does have the reputation of a thug. Seems his fans follow suit. But then even Michael Brodie, one of the nicest guys in British boxing, attracted some vile people to his fights.

Now, I'm not having an untoward dig at the city or its people, I'm just saying what I see and wonder if anyone has any answers?

Fights in Manchester are normally big events at the MEN, meaning you're getting the best of a promoters stable regardless of whether the fighter is local or not, so in turn you're getting fans from across the country turning up.

It's a big event, people like to travel to it, support their boys and get wrecked, it's inevitable that there will be clashes. I wouldn't blame it on anything to do with Manchester.

Why then does it happen at the MEN more than at the O2 or the NIA or the Millennium Stadium? And it's not just big shows. Why does it happen at Wythenshaw Forum more than at York Hall or Kelvin Hall or Wolverhampton Civic? Why does it happen in Oldham more than in Dudley or Aberdeen or Bristol? Why does it happen when Hatton or Hall or Farnell or Brodie fight more than it does when Witter or Small or Rhodes or Harrison fight?

I'm not saying crowd trouble doesn't happen elsewhere, or with other boxers, of course it does, but I say all of the above only after years of noticing this very trend. I have nothing against Manchester, I just want to know why this is. It's valid.

[Loynesy]

This simply shouldn't be let to rest.

The gentlemen assaulted should:

1. Make a formal complaint to the police, who are then duty bound to make a complaint.

2. Get some local press, the MEN should run a picture of his face. Create some momentum to identify the criminal.

3. Complain to W arren. Whilst not Sports Network fault per se, to have stewards who theafter do nothing is a clear dereliction of their duty of care.

Loynesy

[Spud]

3. Complain to W arren. Whilst not Sports Network fault per se, to have stewards who theafter do nothing is a clear dereliction of their duty of care.

Loynesy

Hello Mate!!

Really do not want to stick up for W arren but the stewarding is not his problem in this particular case!!

With some of the bigger venue's like the O2, MEN, Sheffield Arena etc etc etc - the promoter pays a fairly sizeable fee and as such stewarding for the main public areas is supplied by the Arena itself. As such the promoter only provides "security" for the inner ringside areas and backstage and thus cannot get involved in these incidents outside their area of responsibility. Smaller venues like York Hall and the Leisure Centres etc etc then they can.

Clearly the gentlman concerned should complain to the MEN itself.

[twenty six]

This is why I prefer to pay extra and sit ringside - particularly if I'm with my partner.
It is reassuring to have big Clifton on your side.
It is an awful incident, but sadly not an isolated one.
In my experience to say this is a Manc problem is unfair.
I've had some great nights with boxing in Manchester, even as an away supporter with Ryan.
The worst was at the Millenium Cardiff for the Lockett fight, and that involved females being attacked as well.
The build up to Hall / Small fight didn't help, and at the weigh in, there was a lot of provocative behaviour from Small, and Hall's reaction to it.
That was followed by some unsavoury racist comments.
Ryan's fans are in the main a decent set, but I won't defend them if they're wrong and we did have problems at York Hall at the Blundell fight.
Difference is, we dealt with that "internally" if you get my drift.
Most of Ryan's hard core fans are well known to us all, so there's really no hiding place.
I would be intrigued to find out if the perpetrator is a regular boxing fan, and in particular a fan of Matty for boxing reasons or just someone who tagged on.
I hope ultimately this doesn't reflect on Matty.
Some years ago he was walking on the wild side, but I've heard he's well and truly turned the corner.
He can come again, from this fight.

[whicker]

This is why I prefer to pay extra and sit ringside - particularly if I'm with my partner.

Sometimes, thought, it's just too expensive.

Moreover, people should never feel the need to sit in a particular area of the venue out of safety concerns. I'm not criticising twentysix, of course- I understand your point, and I agree with it. I'm just saying, it shouldn't have to be that way.

[twenty six]

Well you pay your money, you take your chance mate.
If you were a Man Utd fan, away at West Ham, bought a cheap ticket, jumped up when Berbatov scored .......
I know it's not right but it's how it is.

[whicker]

Well you pay your money, you take your chance mate.
If you were a Man Utd fan, away at West Ham, bought a cheap ticket, jumped up when Berbatov scored .......
I know it's not right but it's how it is.

If a West Ham fan punched two Man Utd fans in the face, including a woman, it would be all over the papers, the person would have been immediatly apprehended, banned from all football for life and probably sent down.

[doctorboxing]

The person attacked should make a complaint to the police - could the person who witnessed it not do so as well? After all they witnessed a serious assault. It is only if these attacks are reported that maybe more security and police will be used at subsequent shows.

While not Fwanks fault, he should refuse to use venues that don't have adequate security and put pressure on the arenas that way.

I attend a lot of live boxing and I would never take my wife to the majority of shows, which is a sad indication of the type of people who follow the sport.

[twenty six]

Whicker,
Maybe, maybe not.
I bet you the Man Utd fan would get a ban as well for being in the wrong end.

[whicker]

Whicker,
Maybe, maybe not.
I bet you the Man Utd fan would get a ban as well for being in the wrong end.

Possibly, yes.

Just to add (I'm not sure if this is the point you are making) but at boxing of course there is no segregated seating based on which boxer you support.

Moreover, this guy (who was attacked) wasn't a vocal Small supporter anyway. All he really did was stood up and clapped when Small won.

Seemed to me more like a random target for violence.

[davidas]

W arren SHOULD be made awareof these incidents and if he has to pay extra £££££ to police the venue effectively then so be it. At the minute its British Transport Police who are responsible for the MEN and while they do a job they certainly dont have the resources of say an effectively policed operation put together by GMP (drugs dogs/public order training/sheer numbers/experience). Unfortunatley that would cost overtime and come out of Franks Budget ultimately.
He wont want to do that, but when you look at the coments on here so far and we are boxing fans - imagine how many casual fans are being put off by these incidents? I witnessed similar knuckle dragging behaviour at the Khan v Barrera fight and it put me off this event. I paid £100 for my ticket in the hope Id be aware from most of the idiots who would group together in the cheaper seats, unfortunately not. So its gotta be weighed up - a safe atmosphere = more ticket sales. Events like Saturday and the Barrera fight = much less sales. (look how many police are at say a Bolton game with 20,000 support when the tickets are £30.00 say a game. Surely with the majority of tickets at far more than double that, a few extra officers/security personnel/mixture of both can be employed to police up to 16,000 at the MEN?)
Also whoever knows the victim in this if they could let him know the support he's recieving and encourage him to proceed with making all the authorities know this is going on - then it should be done. If this prat is part of HALLS group then he wont be hard to identify from CCTV as he will be local you'd imagine.
I attend alot of small hall shows and VIP shows around Greater Manchester and have seen nothing but an excellent atmosphere and a far more enjoyable afternoon/evening.

To justify the lad being punched in the face as if it was a west-ham fan at a utd game is totally missing the point - however does highlight the fact that the football perpatrator would be dealt with severely for the assaults and probably affray. he same should be done in this instance.

[twenty six]

The football analogy was not made to justify the act Davidas.
I've a bit more grey matter than that.
Whicker has picked up on it - if it's getting too serious has the time arrived for fan segregation at major events, with the fighters being responsible for their allocation ?
Cuplrits can easily be pinpointed to a ticket allocation - then to a fighter.
If you go to an England match away - you're named on the ticket.

[whicker]

the time arrived for fan segregation at major events, with the fighters being responsible for their allocation ?
Cuplrits can easily be pinpointed to a ticket allocation - then to a fighter.
If you go to an England match away - you're named on the ticket.

I agree with fan segration, if required, however for this to work they would need to sort out the root problem- people don't sit in their given seats!

But yeah, at (potential) fight such as Khan V Witter, a significant number of fans would be supporting both men, so I'd say segregation is essential.

Anyone remember when Khan fought Lawton? There was a lot of police there, due to potential fears of crowd violence. Put bluntly, there may have been racial issues.

[davidas]

I really hope it dosnt come to that. How would it be managed on a bill with so many well supported fighters, each from different demographics? And what about the fans who just love the support? What about the bars on the concourse? Those who want trouble will find it, and find it in bigger numbers and with a mob mentality.

To segregate like that would just stir up further trouble in my opinion and breed the unsavory atmosphere, when 'their' fighter loses then people are like sheep, one of two in a group act up, the rest WILL follow and become caught up in the emotion of it all. Then it takes a few of then to suggest going round to the opposition side of the concource and youve got a bigger problem with a big mob following the crowd and a riot on your hands. It might not get to that point, but if it does...

Its a suggestion, I just hope it dosnt get to that. A few extra police/security would do the trick in my opinion.

[twenty six]

Why is that so hard to sort, Whicker ?
72,000 at Old Trafford - no problem.
6,000 at MEN - problem.