Classic American West Coast Boxing

[raylawpc]

Starbucks: crappy coffee ; great pastries. We have several Starbucks at the St. Louis airport. I always buy a couple of croussants to snack on the plane. I drink the airline's coffee (leaded and black). TWA had great coffee. I miss TWA - St. Louis was a TWA hub, so I never had connecting flights back in the days when I flew weekly. TWA also had great in-flight breakfasts. I tried to schedule my flights in the morning so I could eat the breakfast. The rest of the meals? Well, not as good as the coffee or breakfasts.

Tom
I usually don't argue with you. Let you have the last word.But Starbucks has crappy coffee AND crappy pastries. Come on dude,you've been to Europe enough to know that. Who'd buy pastries at a Starbucks in Munich,but a tourist?

I like Starbucks croussants; I eat them on the plane. They taste good to me, and I enjoy munching on them when flying. But I didn't (and wouldn't) buy pastries at a Starbucks anywhere in Europe.

I probably should not have called the pastries great - but I do think they are good.

P.S. - feel free to argue with me all you want. You don't have to let me have the last word. Arguing is what I do for a living.

[kikibalt]

Special From Jon Bardelli

Why, Arturo?

Life is not as it always seems and rarely is it rewarding. As Ye Sow, So Shall Ye Reap.

Stated another way, the transforming laws of physics, as described by Newton, apply to the unfolding of human drama be it good, bad, or indifferent, in the same manner that those laws govern all motion in the Universe.

In the same respect that the immutable laws of physics apply across the board, equally, in non-discriminatory fashion, within and upon the life of every man, woman and child, those same laws of physics play themselves out in a morality play converting Newtonian laws of motion into human masks of sorrow, jealously, self pity, regret, guilt, remorse, as life weaves itself day in, day out, into a coat of varying colors and shades of meaning.

If one drinks to excess, the intangible messing with the human physiology, eventually takes its tolls in ways not known but in a predictable and steady fashion, as an ocean tide.

If one is unfaithful in a relationship, a ticking time bomb will explode…it’s only a matter of time.

If one is abusive of a loved one and oblivious to the needs of a family… the human emotion of guilt will raise its head and provide a response that the vast majority will never see evolving for they do not want to be exposed to an unfolding of the future of their own destiny. It is easier to enable and to put one’s head in the sand.

Add to the equation, the physiological damage to one’s brain from having entered that squared circle, where only Angels should dare to tread, and combine that act with the inevitable sheering of neurons taking place, therein, coupled with the sucking up of the compelling adulation, the bravado, and the cheering of the mob… all the while the forces of self-denial setting in which thereby induce the recipient to erroneously conclude that those punches are incapable of taking their toll---denial to the point of no return… and you have on your hands the making of a Shakespearean tragedy engulfing and consuming all who come within the circle of enabling denial.

History provides its answers in a manner we don’t like to reflect upon and, indeed, shun in examining in detail the closing chapters which are there for examination and reading. It is so transparent--- and so readily available for all to witness were we to look at only a dew of the once glimmering and now imploded stars of the Universe:

Grimm, Nelson, McCoy, Papke, Fontaine, LaMotta, Arguello, Robinson, Charles, Louis, Pep, Machen, Foley, Turpin, Mills, Chacon, Lopez, Quarry, Norton, Ali, thousands more and, … dare we say, … Gatti.

Ah Gatti… one can only wonder what demons grabbed you in your moment of extreme remorse--- a remorse for conduct transformed into guilt and shame… and a crying out for help… setting into motion conditions which took you down the road to an oblivion… where it was not bad enough to have not only assaulted the one you professed an undying love for on the night that you were about to forsake the world--- much in the same fashion Judas did when the enormity of his own transgressions sunk in and transformed Iscariot, a disciple no less, over the enormity of his own guilt and lead him to his own self inflicted strangulation,… but, indeed a state of mind which would allow you to engage in a contemptible act without foresight that your own death, taken by your own hand, would bring even more contempt and ridicule upon the same Amanda Rodrigues you professed to love and, thereafter, forever render her an obstacle of scorn and hatred by those whose lives mimic your own---wasting their allotted hours in debauchery until their souls can take no more, rendering as yourself, a plaintiff cry---”Enough” And the die is cast---the end is here-- and oh, what a tangled web we weave.

This should be posted in every gym in the land, next to boxing pictures/posters.

Thank you Jon for that great Classic American West Coast Boxing piece.

[dagosd2000]

Special From Jon Bardelli

Why, Arturo?

Life is not as it always seems and rarely is it rewarding. As Ye Sow, So Shall Ye Reap.

Stated another way, the transforming laws of physics, as described by Newton, apply to the unfolding of human drama be it good, bad, or indifferent, in the same manner that those laws govern all motion in the Universe.

In the same respect that the immutable laws of physics apply across the board, equally, in non-discriminatory fashion, within and upon the life of every man, woman and child, those same laws of physics play themselves out in a morality play converting Newtonian laws of motion into human masks of sorrow, jealously, self pity, regret, guilt, remorse, as life weaves itself day in, day out, into a coat of varying colors and shades of meaning.

If one drinks to excess, the intangible messing with the human physiology, eventually takes its tolls in ways not known but in a predictable and steady fashion, as an ocean tide.

If one is unfaithful in a relationship, a ticking time bomb will explode…it’s only a matter of time.

If one is abusive of a loved one and oblivious to the needs of a family… the human emotion of guilt will raise its head and provide a response that the vast majority will never see evolving for they do not want to be exposed to an unfolding of the future of their own destiny. It is easier to enable and to put one’s head in the sand.

Add to the equation, the physiological damage to one’s brain from having entered that squared circle, where only Angels should dare to tread, and combine that act with the inevitable sheering of neurons taking place, therein, coupled with the sucking up of the compelling adulation, the bravado, and the cheering of the mob… all the while the forces of self-denial setting in which thereby induce the recipient to erroneously conclude that those punches are incapable of taking their toll---denial to the point of no return… and you have on your hands the making of a Shakespearean tragedy engulfing and consuming all who come within the circle of enabling denial.

History provides its answers in a manner we don’t like to reflect upon and, indeed, shun in examining in detail the closing chapters which are there for examination and reading. It is so transparent--- and so readily available for all to witness were we to look at only a dew of the once glimmering and now imploded stars of the Universe:

Grimm, Nelson, McCoy, Papke, Fontaine, LaMotta, Arguello, Robinson, Charles, Louis, Pep, Machen, Foley, Turpin, Mills, Chacon, Lopez, Quarry, Norton, Ali, thousands more and, … dare we say, … Gatti.

Ah Gatti… one can only wonder what demons grabbed you in your moment of extreme remorse--- a remorse for conduct transformed into guilt and shame… and a crying out for help… setting into motion conditions which took you down the road to an oblivion… where it was not bad enough to have not only assaulted the one you professed an undying love for on the night that you were about to forsake the world--- much in the same fashion Judas did when the enormity of his own transgressions sunk in and transformed Iscariot, a disciple no less, over the enormity of his own guilt and lead him to his own self inflicted strangulation,… but, indeed a state of mind which would allow you to engage in a contemptible act without foresight that your own death, taken by your own hand, would bring even more contempt and ridicule upon the same Amanda Rodrigues you professed to love and, thereafter, forever render her an obstacle of scorn and hatred by those whose lives mimic your own---wasting their allotted hours in debauchery until their souls can take no more, rendering as yourself, a plaintiff cry---”Enough” And the die is cast---the end is here-- and oh, what a tangled web we weave.

This slould be posted in every gym in the land, next to boxing pictures/posters.

Thank you Jon for that great Classic American West Coast Boxing piece.

MORE REFLECTIONS

I remember when Mickey Mantle was on the threshold speaking in front of a microphone at the hospital telling his fans,especially his young fans,that he shouldn't be a role model because of the way he had lived his life. It's sort of getting everything off your chest at the end. A confession. Then whatever happens after it's over...well that's the big question.

John made a statement about behaviors common among ,not only athletes,but people in general. Athletes,because they receive so much adoration,like John said,often fall victum to the Shakespearean tragedy. Maybe their lifestyles drove them to greatness in the arena. Maybe that lifestyle was their eventual doom.

We can name atletes ,enshrined, who lived decent lives. The Aarons,Gehrigs,Starrs,and Basilios.There's equal applause for both the good and the bad.

John mentioned LaMotta. Unlike Mantle,Jake won't look back and think he ever erred. The night his ex wife Vicky took him to see Raging Bull,Jake turned to her after the end and said,"Was I really that bad?"

Ali believes that he is ready to meet God in heaven because his life was the road that has eventually brought him to his state of mind. The good and the bad.All the errors were a part of it.

Arturo Gatti. Alexis Arguello.They committed suicide. These self inflicted acts will always convict the dead of having erred when their lives are assessed. They are criticized and ,unfortunately,never have a chance again to make amends.Suicide,to me,is an act by a man that has lost faith.

[Rick Farris]

Starbucks: crappy coffee ; great pastries. We have several Starbucks at the St. Louis airport. I always buy a couple of croussants to snack on the plane. I drink the airline's coffee (leaded and black). TWA had great coffee. I miss TWA - St. Louis was a TWA hub, so I never had connecting flights back in the days when I flew weekly. TWA also had great in-flight breakfasts. I tried to schedule my flights in the morning so I could eat the breakfast. The rest of the meals? Well, not as good as the coffee or breakfasts.

Tom
I usually don't argue with you. Let you have the last word.But Starbucks has crappy coffee AND crappy pastries. Come on dude,you've been to Europe enough to know that. Who'd buy pastries at a Starbucks in Munich,but a tourist?

I like Starbucks croussants; I eat them on the plane. They taste good to me, and I enjoy munching on them when flying. But I didn't (and wouldn't) buy pastries at a Starbucks anywhere in Europe.

I probably should not have called the pastries great - but I do think they are good.

P.S. - feel free to argue with me all you want. You don't have to let me have the last word. Arguing is what I do for a living.

Arguing is just my hobby.

-Rick

[kikibalt]

[kikibalt]

Starbucks: crappy coffee ; great pastries. We have several Starbucks at the St. Louis airport. I always buy a couple of croussants to snack on the plane. I drink the airline's coffee (leaded and black). TWA had great coffee. I miss TWA - St. Louis was a TWA hub, so I never had connecting flights back in the days when I flew weekly. TWA also had great in-flight breakfasts. I tried to schedule my flights in the morning so I could eat the breakfast. The rest of the meals? Well, not as good as the coffee or breakfasts.

Tom
I usually don't argue with you. Let you have the last word.But Starbucks has crappy coffee AND crappy pastries. Come on dude,you've been to Europe enough to know that. Who'd buy pastries at a Starbucks in Munich,but a tourist?

I like Starbucks croussants; I eat them on the plane. They taste good to me, and I enjoy munching on them when flying. But I didn't (and wouldn't) buy pastries at a Starbucks anywhere in Europe.

I probably should not have called the pastries great - but I do think they are good.

P.S. - feel free to argue with me all you want. You don't have to let me have the last word. Arguing is what I do for a living.

Arguing is just a hobby for me

-Rick

I don't argue with Connie, other wise I'll be sleeping with Charlie all the time, I don't like sleeping with Charlie because he snores real loud....

[Rick Farris]

Look at the two in the top photo, the guys standing behind in the coat & ties.
Talk about a double chin? These guys have more chins than a Chinatown phone book.


-Rick Farris

[dagosd2000]

AND ANOTHER...

I've talked about how,when first married,lived in the barrio of Canon Jhonson in Tijuana. Not much has changed as far as the relevant poverty level.

I remember once I was standing beside this wall, just down the street where I lived, staring across at this church. I think it was one of those Evangelical Born Again Churches. But what kind of church doesn't matter to the story.

As I saw the people starting to go inside,the preacher arrived. As he was appraoching the entrance of the church,he walked over a homeless person who was passed out on the ground. Shortly after I could hear the preacher making his sermon.

I often wonder how many people I've walked over? The other day in Tijuana I gave a beggar some money. I feel I have to do that. Then I pass by 20 more beggars not making eye contact.

Maybe that's why I do bad things once in a while. If I was like Jake LaMotta ,I wouldn't think like that.

[kikibalt]

Alexis Argeullo & Sugar Ray Robinson
Circa 1974

[dagosd2000]

Look at the two in the top photo, the guys standing behind in the coat & ties.
Talk about a double chin? These guys have more chins than a Chinatown phone book.


-Rick Farris

Rick

They probably got fat off the purses of Carruthers.

[kikibalt]

Look at the two in the top photo, the guys standing behind in the coat & ties.
Talk about a double chin? These guys have more chins than a Chinatown phone book.


-Rick Farris

LOL...Rick, those guys sure didn't miss any meals

[dagosd2000]

Alexis Argeullo & Sugar Ray Robinson
Circa 1974

What a picture after what has just happened. I know in my heart I forgive Alexis. And Sugar Ray's story? Well,I forgive him too. They made so so many people happy. RIP fellas'.

[kikibalt]

Sugar Ray Robinson, Nat Fleischer & Tony Zale

New York Boxing Writer's Association Dinner, January 22, 1947
Ruppert's Brewery, New York City

Nat Fleischer, Editor and Publisher of The Ring, presents Sugar Ray Robinson with The Ring Welterweight Championship Belt. Tony Zale received The Ring Merit Award . The Merit Award is given to the boxer who stood out most prominently as a pugilist and a cisizen during the prior year. Zale was also awarded the Edward J. Neil Plaque by the Boxing Writier's Association.

[kikibalt]

Don't remember if this fight has been posted before

Joe Frazier vs Jerry Quarry II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REZDe9uRPMQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwfutdbGub0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-kd_EHi-w

[Rick Farris]

Don't remember if this fight has been posted before

Joe Frazier vs Jerry Quarry II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REZDe9uRPMQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwfutdbGub0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-kd_EHi-w

These fights are worth a second look, Frank.
The thing that stands out in my memory of the fight was Frazier's hook to the body.
On this night it spelled the end for Jerry Quarry.
Something else of note was the accuracy of Frazier's jab and how he turned it over into a short, quick hook to the chin.
I new before this rematch that Jerry wasn't at his best, but I always wanted him to win.

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Alexis Argeullo & Sugar Ray Robinson
Circa 1974

What a picture after what has just happened. I know in my heart I forgive Alexis. And Sugar Ray's story? Well,I forgive him too. They made so so many people happy. RIP fellas'.

Great photo of two all-time greats!

Those of us who were training at the Main Street Gym in the late 60's and early 70's, would see the great Robinson almost daily,
The "real" Sugar Ray continued to train long after his career ended in 1965.
To keep his weight down, he'd wear a plastic suit like the one you see in the photo.
Ray didn't just skip rope and hit bags, he'd jump into the ring and spar with the best of the day.

I remember him doing his magic when banging it out with #1 welter, Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez one afternoon.
Of course, Ernie was a rough customer and put the pressure on, however, the slick Sugar Ray would slip, roll, pick-off and counter.
Ernie would keep pressing on, you could see him working hard, but Sugar was just cool and in control. He'd done this before.

If I could just step back into the Main Street Gym on any given saturday morning between the mid-60's-to-70's.
If that were possible, I'd see more world class action and talent throwing leather in those two rings than I will ever see again.
Randy, Frank and the rest of you who've been there know what I am saying is true.

I can visualize Rip Roseboro and Duke Holloway sitting on the bleachers, Howie behind his desk barking at someone on the phone, Memo Soto pushing a shopping cart full of equipment out from his dressing room, Gil Cadilli helping a boxer tie his gloves, Tony Marino stepping out from his room in the back holding a headgear he'd just made for a fighter, I see a smiling manager Luis Celeya (who Johnny Flores nicknamed "The King of the Mexicans), Bill Slayton putting vaseline on the face of Ken Norton, Ralph Gambina holding court in the corner, I can see Felipe Torres bouncing around the ring, working lightly with an amateur in the ring as he warmed up . . .
Just too many memories.


-Rick Farris

[Expug]

Great memories Rick.
I think that those moments captured in memory at the gym are as great as some of the moments captured in some of the fights.
I like the whole experience in boxing. Its what makes it the unique and best sport of all.
Like I said before though, once you have experienced these great memories , its hard to find them elsewhere.
I have a tendency to get bored by what I percieve to be the mundane .
After being around the fights and fighters, who cares about hitting a ball into a hole with a club? Who cares about throwing a ball into a hoop. These can be fun activities, but they dont measure up.A guy asked me recently if I was interested in playing in the parish basketball league. I just looked at him kinda strange I guess. Not on purpose, hes good people. Then he just said ,"maybe not".

[Rick Farris]

Starbucks: crappy coffee ; great pastries. We have several Starbucks at the St. Louis airport. I always buy a couple of croussants to snack on the plane. I drink the airline's coffee (leaded and black). TWA had great coffee. I miss TWA - St. Louis was a TWA hub, so I never had connecting flights back in the days when I flew weekly. TWA also had great in-flight breakfasts. I tried to schedule my flights in the morning so I could eat the breakfast. The rest of the meals? Well, not as good as the coffee or breakfasts.

Tom . . . Speaking of St. Louis, I remember back in 1968, when I was an amateur, I had a pro stablemate who was a middleweight, Bobby Rye.
Bobby didn't go very far, but Johnny Flores did take him to St. Louis where he fought a local favorite, Bobby Harrington.
Harrington took a ten round decision over my friend, and the following month faced Denny Moyer in the same ring.
Moyer brought to much savvy into the ring for Harrington and whipped him over ten rounds.

I'm aware that you were probably living in Oklahoma at the time, but I'm curious as to the the state of boxing in Missouri today.
In St. Louis & Kansas City, is there much action on either the pro or amateur levels?
I was in K.C. for the Golden Gloves Nat'ls in 1969, the same place where Jerry Quarry won the Nat'l GG's heavyweight title in 1965.

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Great memories Rick.
I think that those moments captured in memory at the gym are as great as some of the moments captured in some of the fights.
I like the whole experience in boxing. Its what makes it the unique and best sport of all.
Like I said before though, once you have experienced these great memories , its hard to find them elsewhere.
I have a tendency to get bored by what I percieve to be the mundane .
After being around the fights and fighters, who cares about hitting a ball into a hole with a club? Who cares about throwing a ball into a hoop. These can be fun activities, but they dont measure up.A guy asked me recently if I was interested in playing in the parish basketball league. I just looked at him kinda strange I guess. Not on purpose, hes good people. Then he just said ,"maybe not".

Brian . . . You said it perfect, "I like the whole experience in boxing."
Same with me, the people, the places, the atmosphere.
There used to be an electricity in the air, an energy that was intoxicating.
We understand the same thing, all of us who hang out in this thread.


-Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

Great memories to have Rick, nobody can take those away from you, only father time can do that, where you get so old you can't remember dick then, and only then will those memories be forgotten by you but, those memories will live on as they will be told by a younger generation, and maybe, just maybe the that younger generation will be talking about us in 30-40 years the way we talk about the ones that came before us....

[Rick Farris]

Crossing the line seperating eras . . .


I hate these "dream match" posts. How would Ali do with Dempsey? Harry Greb against Hagler, etc.
However, just food for thought amongst the conniseurs of this thread, imagine this one just for plain action:

Carmen Basileo vs. Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez.

I'm not thinking about who would win, I'm imagining these guys fighting a title elimination bout, winner to get a title shot.
What a war, two of the toughest of tough.

And just for the record, I know beyond question who would win . . . the fans!


-Rick Farris

[Expug]

What a fight.
Your right Rick. No matter what the judges verdict was, the winner would be the fans.

Im thinking also, how many of the younger generation we see walking around these days would you like to have just sit down and read this thread word for word picture for picture page for page.
This thread could serve as a good educational tool for alot of youngsters who are getting a little....confused shall we say.
Next time I see a guy walking down the street with a cafe latte frapucino carmel machioto Al Pacino flavored cofee,Im gonna suggest the West Coast Thread.
In a few days he will be a new man. Ready to take on the world.
Plus, he will be drinking Folgers too.

Look, Mrs Olsen should be the threads ring card girl.
She even knows how to save an apparently shaky marriage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrGgg6r9YyI

[Randyman]

Hey Guys keep our daughter Lori in your thoughts and prayers. She has been in the hospital since Friday. The doctors still haven't determined what is wrong with her. She is very weak and has a 103 degree temperature. We know she is going to be okay but a few extra prayers would be appreciated.

Thanks
Randy & Jeri

[Randyman]

Alexis Argeullo & Sugar Ray Robinson
Circa 1974

What a picture after what has just happened. I know in my heart I forgive Alexis. And Sugar Ray's story? Well,I forgive him too. They made so so many people happy. RIP fellas'.

Great photo of two all-time greats!

Those of us who were training at the Main Street Gym in the late 60's and early 70's, would see the great Robinson almost daily,
The "real" Sugar Ray continued to train long after his career ended in 1965.
To keep his weight down, he'd wear a plastic suit like the one you see in the photo.
Ray didn't just skip rope and hit bags, he'd jump into the ring and spar with the best of the day.

I remember him doing his magic when banging it out with #1 welter, Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez one afternoon.
Of course, Ernie was a rough customer and put the pressure on, however, the slick Sugar Ray would slip, roll, pick-off and counter.
Ernie would keep pressing on, you could see him working hard, but Sugar was just cool and in control. He'd done this before.

If I could just step back into the Main Street Gym on any given saturday morning between the mid-60's-to-70's.
If that were possible, I'd see more world class action and talent throwing leather in those two rings than I will ever see again.
Randy, Frank and the rest of you who've been there know what I am saying is true.

I can visualize Rip Roseboro and Duke Holloway sitting on the bleachers, Howie behind his desk barking at someone on the phone, Memo Soto pushing a shopping cart full of equipment out from his dressing room, Gil Cadilli helping a boxer tie his gloves, Tony Marino stepping out from his room in the back holding a headgear he'd just made for a fighter, I see a smiling manager Luis Celeya (who Johnny Flores nicknamed "The King of the Mexicans), Bill Slayton putting vaseline on the face of Ken Norton, Ralph Gambina holding court in the corner, I can see Felipe Torres bouncing around the ring, working lightly with an amateur in the ring as he warmed up . . .
Just too many memories.


-Rick Farris

Rick, we were blessed and damned lucky to be growing up at a time when boxing was still part of the life force of the Los Angeles Sports scene. Luckier still to have been able to train at the fabled Main Street Gym, a gym that is now just a long gone memory. Most gyms have their local favorite fighters that make their gym their home. The Main Street Gym also had their local fighters but the names of the visiting fighters that made the Main Street Gym their home away from home reads like a roll call of boxing legends. Some of them stayed. It wasn't just the building, it was the people and the incredible knowledge and experience. Too many to list here.

I remember Rip well. Mel called him "Turtle" it was an apt nickname for Rip except a turtle moved a little faster. Rip didn't take any crap from anyone either. Pay your 50 cents to see the boxers or get the hell out.

I wrote about the gym awhile back here: http://boxing-ring.blogspot.com/2007/11 ... t-gym.html

Randy

[Dongee]

Randy:

"Dios es muy grande". Count on us to add our pleas.

hap navarro