Crowd violence behaviour at the MEN

[twenty six]

Same question for you Davidas.

[Coco]

Why is that so hard to sort, Whicker ?
72,000 at Old Trafford - no problem.
6,000 at MEN - problem.

Security systems/cameras are far more adept in purpose built stadiums.
Such technology is not available in local leisure centres

[whicker]

Why is that so hard to sort, Whicker ?
72,000 at Old Trafford - no problem.
6,000 at MEN - problem.

Its fundamentally different, though.

At a footy match, at least 99% of people will be supporting one team or the other. At a boxing match, many people will be neutrals, casual fans, etc. Sometimes people will actually cheer for BOTH fighters, and applaud a boxer based on his performance. Ryan Rhodes V Silky Jones was a bit like that. Both boxers were "home" fighters, both were cheered by most of the crowd.

Furthermore, there won't just be two sets of fans like at football.

Hatton-Khan could be an exception, and could be arranged as such "Do you want tickets in the Hatton section, or the Khan section."

[twenty six]

Coco,
Not talking about Leisure Centres mate - talking about major boxing events such as at the MEN.
There were 6k there.
Why couldn't it be managed properly ?
It was a ppv event - not as though there wasn't money in the kitty.
Or did Khan have it all ?

[twenty six]

Appreciate that mate.
Look, I ain't got the answers.
Just trying to open up the debate.

[davidas]

the majority of the 72,000 are there to watch a football match are probably football fans and football is policing every week and the deterrents are there to stop you standing up and smacking someone because you dont agree with their opinion (be it an opposition fan, or the bloke infront of you who slags off your manager/centre forward). Segregation obviously stops you slapping the opposition fan but again, thats with 2 teams and is the tried and tested method, everyone accepts it. Boxing events may have say 5 top fights, thats 10 sets of supporters, some support will overlap onto other boxers, some wont so it'd be a nightmare and impossible to be effective.

At the MEN arena there are 6,000 people. Not all of them are boxing fans, I witness alot there as part of a piss-up who want to see someone hurt and want their man to 'knock his f***ing head off' etc etc - weve all heard it. Singing football songs on the concourse and look around for a reaction (I witnessed many manyliverpool fans doing this at the MEN). Unfortunately it happens. There are no police officers or enough stewards nearby to chuck out the racist or aggressive p*sshead. At old trafford a quick radio call and they are lifted by police/stewards and never to return again. MEN arena = no deterrent. Can you imagine people at Old Trafford snorting coke off their seats so blatently? no, why? = deterrent.
I think it ultimately comes down to security and policing. More needs to be spent on it for the big shows instead of cutting corners. Then that will provide the (my fav word of the day) deterrent.

[whicker]

Appreciate that mate.
Look, I ain't got the answers.
Just trying to open up the debate.

Yeah, I know what you mean- and I agree- a deabte is good. For Khan V Hatton (if ever happens) segregation would be a good idea.

[davidas]

Appreciate that mate.
Look, I ain't got the answers.
Just trying to open up the debate.

Yeah, I know what you mean- and I agree- a deabte is good. For Khan V Hatton (if ever happens) segregation would be a good idea.

Khan v Hatton segregation??? nooooooo. Boxing has a bad enough profile at times already. Can you imagine the field day the press would have with that and the racist undertones they would suggest? god no!!!!

[saturday_kid]

On a lighter note (sort of) the last bit of crowd violence at boxing I've witnessed was at Wolverhampton Civic Hall last year Steve Saville Vs Baz Carey Midland title, a fight kicked off at ringside between Baz Carey's wife or a friend of hers and apparently someone related to Saville! Actually halted the fight for a minute or so when Carey went over seeing his wife in trouble. Was all over within seconds really, not funny really just thought it was a little cos it was involving relatives of the 2 boxers boxing. Will just mention though both boxers acted impecibly.

A lot of trouble at boxing happens when football firms attach themselves to boxers.

After the Mutley Lynes fight in Wolverhampton the streets were full of police as the Wolves hooligans had "mobbed up" to attack West Brom hooligans who had gone to the boxing to follow Mutley. Also Remember West Brom fans clashing with Scottish after Mutley lost to Anderson.

[doctorboxing]

Appreciate that mate.
Look, I ain't got the answers.
Just trying to open up the debate.

Yeah, I know what you mean- and I agree- a deabte is good. For Khan V Hatton (if ever happens) segregation would be a good idea.

Khan v Hatton segregation??? nooooooo. Boxing has a bad enough profile at times already. Can you imagine the field day the press would have with that and the racist undertones they would suggest? god no!!!!

Also what about the undercard fighters - often their supporters can cause trouble as well.

If you segregated Khan and Hatton fans then had e.g. Small-Hall on the undercard, a Small fan could still be sitting in the middle of a group of Hall fans.

[whicker]

If you segregated Khan and Hatton fans then had e.g. Small-Hall on the undercard, a Small fan could still be sitting in the middle of a group of Hall fans.

Yeah, this is always going to be one of the issues.

Add that people often leave after "their man" has fought, and then others don't arrive until well after the show has started- or even just arrive for the main event- and it wouldn't perhaps be practical.

To really avoid trouble they would need to make sure people were arriving for the start of the show, and that beer wasn't sold in the arena.

[mickey1975]

This is why I prefer to pay extra and sit ringside - particularly if I'm with my partner.
It is reassuring to have big Clifton on your side.
It is an awful incident, but sadly not an isolated one.
In my experience to say this is a Manc problem is unfair.
I've had some great nights with boxing in Manchester, even as an away supporter with Ryan.
The worst was at the Millenium Cardiff for the Lockett fight, and that involved females being attacked as well.
The build up to Hall / Small fight didn't help, and at the weigh in, there was a lot of provocative behaviour from Small, and Hall's reaction to it.
That was followed by some unsavoury racist comments.
Ryan's fans are in the main a decent set, but I won't defend them if they're wrong and we did have problems at York Hall at the Blundell fight.
Difference is, we dealt with that "internally" if you get my drift.
Most of Ryan's hard core fans are well known to us all, so there's really no hiding place.
I would be intrigued to find out if the perpetrator is a regular boxing fan, and in particular a fan of Matty for boxing reasons or just someone who tagged on.
I hope ultimately this doesn't reflect on Matty.
Some years ago he was walking on the wild side, but I've heard he's well and truly turned the corner.
He can come again, from this fight.

i saw a couple of jason matthews fans beaten up athe doncaster dome moments after he knocked out rhodes

[lowersmiths]

This is why I prefer to pay extra and sit ringside - particularly if I'm with my partner.
It is reassuring to have big Clifton on your side.
It is an awful incident, but sadly not an isolated one.
In my experience to say this is a Manc problem is unfair.
I've had some great nights with boxing in Manchester, even as an away supporter with Ryan.
The worst was at the Millenium Cardiff for the Lockett fight, and that involved females being attacked as well.
The build up to Hall / Small fight didn't help, and at the weigh in, there was a lot of provocative behaviour from Small, and Hall's reaction to it.
That was followed by some unsavoury racist comments.
Ryan's fans are in the main a decent set, but I won't defend them if they're wrong and we did have problems at York Hall at the Blundell fight.
Difference is, we dealt with that "internally" if you get my drift.
Most of Ryan's hard core fans are well known to us all, so there's really no hiding place.
I would be intrigued to find out if the perpetrator is a regular boxing fan, and in particular a fan of Matty for boxing reasons or just someone who tagged on.
I hope ultimately this doesn't reflect on Matty.
Some years ago he was walking on the wild side, but I've heard he's well and truly turned the corner.
He can come again, from this fight.

i saw a couple of jason matthews fans beaten up athe doncaster dome moments after he knocked out rhodes

really? there were five of us cheering for matthews in among the rhodes fans and we didn't get any hassle.
however, it looked like it was going to kick off with the gomez fans to our left and the yorkshire boys.

[Counter-puncher]

This is why I prefer to pay extra and sit ringside - particularly if I'm with my partner.
.

sad but true mate that is basically how I feel. if its a card in dudley or the midlands generally i will sit anywhere but if i am travelling away from home I will nearly always just go ringside where as you say big Clinto tends to keep a lid on things

[twenty six]

Really ?
That's news to me. How do you know they were Matthews fans (hardly any came because the fight was made the week of the fight) and there were Rhodes fans involved ?
Are you sure you're not getting this mixed up with the trouble involving Terrace Gaskin's mob ?
I 'm gonna make some enquiries.
Like I said earlier they get no defence if identified.
We can all go on forever mentioning individual instances.
Take Khan's debut for instance.
The Pimlico lads were out in force to support Dave Bailey - and my did it kick off.
There was no bomb scare here - the cops let the alarm off on purpose cos they couldn't stop the fighting, even after sending the dogs in.

[banjo]

Wasn't somebody killed after a Hatton fight years back before he became famous? Don't know if it was his fans or fans of another boxer on the same card.

[lowersmiths]

i think the problem has got worse at boxing since they tightened up the football with all the banning orders. now all the lads who used to go to fight at the football can't get in so they simply go to the boxing and do the same thing there.

a full day on the ale followed by a few drunken punches at a stranger sadly equates for a good day out for these numpties. the sad thing is i can't see how it can be stopped.

policing events would be too expensive and football got priority because it was a family game and was giving the country a bad image. unfortunately there isn't much political capital in people getting punched in the crowd at boxing events (unless it is a riot, like the one i saw at rotherham a few years back)

[Counter-puncher]

i've said it before, it got a mixed response but lets try again:

ban alcohol from boxing venues

[gobbles]

The problem is too many people going for just one fight would rather get drunk during the rest of the action. Then it turns into any town centre scene in the country, drunk blokes saying 'you looking at me'.

The bill on Saturday lasted six hours, also, whereas a football match lasts two and there is segregation and one policeman for every 30 fans.

[whiskey]

Froch v Dodson had some fools throwing chairs around.

[saturday_kid]

@Counter-Puncher

Trouble is though mate I feel that would further marginilise the sport. Yes it would be much safer, and would basically just be a proper boxing fan crowd, but the fact is boxing needs the money of the casual fan, the fan of a certain boxer who just comes to support his lad, the group of lads on a night out etc.

I myself hardly drink at boxing (I do enjoy a drink before and after, sometimes a few too many!) but at the boxing drinking=missing fights. When I do have a pint I carefully plan it when its during a fight I'm not too bothered about seeing and make sure I'm out for the next fight. Some of my mates who sometimes come along though spend more time at the bar and see about 2 fights!

Your idea's a good idea for us boxing fans, perhaps a bad idea for business.

[Counter-puncher]

@Counter-Puncher

Trouble is though mate I feel that would further marginilise the sport. Yes it would be much safer, and would basically just be a proper boxing fan crowd, but the fact is boxing needs the money of the casual fan, the fan of a certain boxer who just comes to support his lad, the group of lads on a night out etc.

I myself hardly drink at boxing (I do enjoy a drink before and after, sometimes a few too many!) but at the boxing drinking=missing fights. When I do have a pint I carefully plan it when its during a fight I'm not too bothered about seeing and make sure I'm out for the next fight. Some of my mates who sometimes come along though spend more time at the bar and see about 2 fights!

Your idea's a good idea for us boxing fans, perhaps a bad idea for business.

aye true mate.

one thing i will say is maybe some 're-education' is needed.

alcohol was banned from football for ages. ended up with more families coming back, etc.

now, unless i am mistaken, there are some grounds that you can have a drink in? as though maybe a generation was needed to pass.....?

i don't know. it ain't gonna happen i am sure as the MEN must make loads of ££££ selling their fine ales.

[Carbo]

Honestly, there are so many morons in Britain.

I'm reading this thread with dispair.

I remember when I came back to the UK for a week last year, and I was shocked after only a year out of the country to see charvas on the metro and on street corners. They were there when I left, of course, but I'd grown up with them. Coming back, though, I'd almost forgotten they existed. They are so thick, and completely useless for anything bar causing bother, sponging money of family and the state, and mouching about. You could just tell that not a single one of the b;starts was going to lead a productive life.

Does that sound snobbish or unforgivably right wing? I really don't mean it to, but the whole thing just came as a shock to me.

Moscow is, in theory, a far more violent and dangerous place than Newcastle -- and certainly there are some pretty tough people here. But I'll tell you what, there simply isn't the electic feeling that trouble could break out at any minute on a Friday and Saturday night. Kids don't bother you. People who drink on street corners or in metro underpasses are there to have a drink and a chat with mates on the way home from work, not to hassle and intimidate passers by.

It's just a different world. And it's not poverty, either, because while there are plenty of millionaires and billionaires, the gap between rich and poor is massive, the median wage is much lower than in Newcastle, and the poor are much, much poorer.

I was trying to explain to a friend what Whitley Bay is like on a Friday, Saturday or Bank Holiday, and how there are hundreds of fights every night there, and people here just don't get it.

Neither do I, to be honest.

Honestly, we're turning into a nation of dimwitted fcuking troglodytes.

[Loynesy]

Every single seat at the MEN arena will be subject to CCTV that is capable of focusing on that seat and producing a picture quality image of the person sitting there - I appreciate the same technology bis not available at smaller venues eg York Hall or leisure centres.

With that in mind, I'm amazed the arena owners, security presonnel and fight promoter have allowed anything other than a zero tolerance of such thugs (of course I know why, allowing isolated examples of assault are permissible if the alternative means sending a group of security in to weed out the assailant.

I'm quite tempted to act for one of these genuinely assaulted customers on a pro bono (ie for free) basis in an action against both the promoter, venue and local police. All sorts of contractual and statutory breaches are occurring.

Loynesy

[DG.]

I'm quite tempted to act for one of these genuinely assaulted customers on a pro bono (ie for free) basis in an action against both the promoter, venue and local police. All sorts of contractual and statutory breaches are occurring.

Loynesy

You should and then Fwank Warren can go into liquidation and resurface as

'Frank Disney Promotions'

or

Frank Fleece Promotion.. All allegedy of course.