Most Overrated/Underrated Heavyweights

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 16 Sep 2004, 18:15

Who would you guys call the most overrated or most underrated heavyweights of all time? They don't have to be all time greats but can be. Mine are:

Underrated: Sonny Liston-Had one of the best and strongest jabs in history, had a great chin, imposing staredown, and underrated boxing abilities. A top five all time heavyweight of all time for me despite overwhelming numbers.

Overrated: Rocky Marciano-I'll probably get criticized for this one but I stick by it. Was a great puncher but that was it. His ability to take punishment is diminished for me because he never fought a tough, youthful contender. Had see-saw wars with all-time greats but who were way past their primes. Doesn't even make my top ten but makes my top fifthteen.

Hope to get some responses on mine and hear your own lists.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » 16 Sep 2004, 20:24

Liston is regarded as a top-five heavyweight (or at least very close to that) by most boxing fans and writers. I would say that he is underrated by the general public who know him best as the guy who lost to Ali. He beat (or was ducked by) nearly every top contender of his time, and both of his losses to Ali were under very strange circumstances. It's worth considering how a fight between Ali and a fully prepared, focused Liston would have turned out...

I would disagree about Marciano being overrated, unless you are referring to the people who put him at #1 or #2. True he didn't face the same level of competition that Ali did, but I'd say he's in the bottom half of the top ten at worst.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 17 Sep 2004, 00:16

Johnny Carwash wrote:Liston is regarded as a top-five heavyweight (or at least very close to that) by most boxing fans and writers. I would say that he is underrated by the general public who know him best as the guy who lost to Ali. He beat (or was ducked by) nearly every top contender of his time, and both of his losses to Ali were under very strange circumstances. It's worth considering how a fight between Ali and a fully prepared, focused Liston would have turned out...

I would disagree about Marciano being overrated, unless you are referring to the people who put him at #1 or #2. True he didn't face the same level of competition that Ali did, but I'd say he's in the bottom half of the top ten at worst.

Liston is under-rated by younger fans (who only know the Liston of the controversial Clay fights). With Rocky, I agree with Carwash. Marciano is not a top 3 guy like some more fanatical fans assest, but top ten no question. Marciano was not nearly as crude as some make him out to be-crude realtive to master boxers like Charles and Walcott, but compared to todays clumsy fools he'd look pretty fast and skillful-he could fire very fast hooks on the inside, and had a very under-rated stiff jab. Not to mention excellent power and being one of the top 5 best conditioned athletes of all time.

In my opinion, the most over-rated HW champion of all time will always be Mike Tyson. Had a formidable run in his late 80s title run, but his wins over Holmes and Spinks in retrospect are really nothing to write home about. And really, Thomas, Tubbs, and Tucker were good HWs, but all were technically very flawed fighters, not to mention the most discplined or conditioned guys in town. Mike never in my opinion proved he could hang at all with those I'd put in my top 10 HWs of all time. Top 20, but def. not one of the best, and that includes prime for prime matchups. No-other fighter has recieved more "he is unbeatable" acclaim after watching the likes of Michael Johnson and Dave Jaco get pummelled into oblivion. Wlad Klitschko beat bums of similar calibre in equally devastating fashion, but his hype machine and highlight reels never really made it overseas. Thus, you have wierd Germans on sites like this still spouting that Wlad is still one of the best HWs of all time . . . . people bought into the hype way too easily . . .

Under-rated . . . . there are many. Ron Lyle and Jess Williard are a couple that come to mind . . . . .

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 17 Sep 2004, 07:07

I thought about this after I posted it and thought about Max Baer, Max Schmeling, and Jersey Joe Walcott as underrated. Max Baer was one of the hardest punching and toughest ever but his lack of discipline and training hurt him. His punching power IMO is equal to or just a step below the top 3 or 4.

And correction for up above. I have Liston at number 6, I totally forgot about Dempsey for a minute.

And I agree with you Dempsey that Tyson's achievements are overrated but I truly belive he could have become a top 3-5 all time heavy if he had mental toughness. I belive he was one of the most skilled of all time. I have him at #9 but that is based on me being a fan. I have him higher than most of you but I think he was truly highly talented and had great potential.

And for Marciano. I probably am dumping on him but I wished he would have taken on a tough young guy, maybe stuck around for awhile and take on a Patterson or such. Had he beat someone of the like he would be rated higher by me.

JC · Post by JC » 17 Sep 2004, 11:22

I definately agree Baer in underrated and he could have achieved much more than he did, I also think that Larry Holmes is underrated not so much by boxing fans, but if you asked a casual sports fan to nome their best heavyweights i doubt he'd be mentioned.

Tyson is definately overrated by some people, although he would make it into the bottom half of the top ten for me. His career is proof of what Sugar Ray Leonard said about boxing being 80% psychological. Theres no doubt that he was increadably naturally gifted but what annoys be is when people say that when he was properly mentally focused he was unbeatable, people need to recognise that his mental frailties were part of his make up and so cannot be taken out of the equation. He couldn't change that anymore than Tommy Hearns could re-inforce his chin, Marciano grow an 84 inch reach or Henry Cooper could develop a cut resistant face.

THE DANCING MASTER · Post by **THE DANCING MASTER** » 17 Sep 2004, 12:02

Gene Tunney is one of the most underrated. He was the complete fighter. He could box, punch, and was very ringwise. He was also smart enough to retire while he was on top. Besides all of that, Tunney was a tough son of a gun as well.

Agree also that Baer is somewhat underrated. A great puncher, who knows what he could have achieved if he had trained properly.

I always suspected that Primo Canera was just a tad better than he has ever been given credit for. Were ALL of his ko's tank jobs? If nothing else he had courage, as did Willard. Primo showed that against Baer and Big Jess displayed such against Dempsey.

Marciano may indeed be overrated in some circles. Just because he was 49-0 does not make him the greatest of all time, but he sure was tough. I have also heard talk that Dempsey may be somewhat overrated as well.

The Scranton Assassin · Post by **The Scranton Assassin** » 17 Sep 2004, 12:42

Marciano should be mentioned here because he in some strange way is both overratted and underratted if you can understand that.

In my opinion the two most overratted heavyweights ever are

Jack Johnson, all he did was hold and hit and countless other illegal tactics. He never defended his title against a serious contender. Ketchel was very strong and one of the greatest middleweights ever but thats the problem, he was a middle weight. Imagine Hopkins fighting Klitschko it would be a total destruction. Jeffries was once a great champ but he had not fought in years and was way, way past his prime. And fireman Jim Flynn, come on. I can't beleive some people actualy have Johnson on their top 10 lists. it is pit-a-ful. And, to top it off he lost the title to Jess Willard and then lied about taking a dive. This freak of nature dosen't even belong in the top 20.

Larry Holmes, < This overrated piece of garbage should have been stripped of his title after he LOST to Witherspoon. He came along at a time when the heavyweights were at one of the weakest ponits in history and he thinks he's an all time great. Carl williams kicked his ass too and I wouldn't be mad at all if the Decison in the norton fight went towards Kenny. But Marciano can't hold his jock strap!?! You make me want to vomit u ugly piece of shit. I'm glad Don King ripped you off as bad as he did cause your not worth shit nor have you ever been. I hope you see this you fuckin monkey. How dare you steal the nickname of one of the greatest middleweights ever. If ketchel was around in the 80's he would moved up to heavy weight and knocked your simple ass out. Hey I have an idea. Why don't you give Tim Witherspoon a rematch now. I mean, u want to fight Foreman don't you . Oh yea I know why u won't, cause you'll get your fuckin ass kicked again. Why don't you die already and stop trying to feed us that "I'm the most underrated Heavyweight ever" bullshit.

:x

The Scranton Assassin · Post by **The Scranton Assassin** » 17 Sep 2004, 12:47

Sorry. I get real carried away when I talk about ugly monkey,,, ah, I mean Holmes.

The Scranton Assassin · Post by **The Scranton Assassin** » 17 Sep 2004, 12:51

J-C , not to ba a smartass but....... If Marciano grew an 84 inch reach, he would have never even made it into the top ten. It was his short reach that gave him the advantage inside. If his arms were that long he wouldn't be able to land any punches except on the outside.

JC · Post by JC » 17 Sep 2004, 13:14

Fair point maybe I was got a little carried away with that one.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 17 Sep 2004, 14:58

The Scranton Assassin wrote:Marciano should be mentioned here because he in some strange way is both overratted and underratted if you can understand that.

In my opinion the two most overratted heavyweights ever are

Jack Johnson, all he did was hold and hit and countless other illegal tactics. He never defended his title against a serious contender. Ketchel was very strong and one of the greatest middleweights ever but thats the problem, he was a middle weight. Imagine Hopkins fighting Klitschko it would be a total destruction. Jeffries was once a great champ but he had not fought in years and was way, way past his prime. And fireman Jim Flynn, come on. I can't beleive some people actualy have Johnson on their top 10 lists. it is pit-a-ful. And, to top it off he lost the title to Jess Willard and then lied about taking a dive. This freak of nature dosen't even belong in the top 20.

Larry Holmes, < This overrated piece of garbage should have been stripped of his title after he LOST to Witherspoon. He came along at a time when the heavyweights were at one of the weakest ponits in history and he thinks he's an all time great. Carl williams kicked his ass too and I wouldn't be mad at all if the Decison in the norton fight went towards Kenny. But Marciano can't hold his jock strap!?! You make me want to vomit u ugly piece of shit. I'm glad Don King ripped you off as bad as he did cause your not worth shit nor have you ever been. I hope you see this you fuckin monkey. How dare you steal the nickname of one of the greatest middleweights ever. If ketchel was around in the 80's he would moved up to heavy weight and knocked your simple ass out. Hey I have an idea. Why don't you give Tim Witherspoon a rematch now. I mean, u want to fight Foreman don't you . Oh yea I know why u won't, cause you'll get your fuckin ass kicked again. Why don't you die already and stop trying to feed us that "I'm the most underrated Heavyweight ever" bullshit. :x

I suggest you read a bit more about Johnson before you critiszie so quickly. He beat many excellent HWs before his title shot (Mcvey, Jeannette, Martin, his Hart robbery) and defended against the best that could be put up at the time (save rematches with Langford and Jeannette, who he;d dominated previously). Moran was a very formidable challenge, and at 37 yrs old he was kicking Williard's butt for the first 20 rounds. All who saw him believed he was one of the very best of all time. Johnson a clear top 10 . . . .
And Holmes is rightly top 10 as well. He beat Witherspoon fair and square . . . .

Jersey Joe Walcott as someone else pointed out is also under-rated.

Baer less so. Part of being a great fighter is having discipline, and Baer lacked that to a big extent. Like Tyson had great natural talent, but mentally was not all there . . . .

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 17 Sep 2004, 17:17

[quote="The Scranton Assassin"]Marciano should be mentioned here because he in some strange way is both overratted and underratted if you can understand that.

In my opinion the two most overratted heavyweights ever are

Jack Johnson, all he did was hold and hit and countless other illegal tactics. He never defended his title against a serious contender. Ketchel was very strong and one of the greatest middleweights ever but thats the problem, he was a middle weight. Imagine Hopkins fighting Klitschko it would be a total destruction. Jeffries was once a great champ but he had not fought in years and was way, way past his prime. And fireman Jim Flynn, come on. I can't beleive some people actualy have Johnson on their top 10 lists. it is pit-a-ful. And, to top it off he lost the title to Jess Willard and then lied about taking a dive. This freak of nature dosen't even belong in the top 20.

I think you are being too hard on him. Yes he held and hit and fouled but all those were very common and were rarely called fouls. His fights were boring and hugfests but he beat all his contenders and embarrassed them. Fight reports say that he taunted his opponents, a la Ali and carried some of them. He fought when everyone wanted him gone. And many belive he did throw his fight with Willard and he was an old man by then anyone. Nat Fliescher (spelling) rated him #1 and he had seen them all, from Johnson to Ali. Plus I remember reading that Jack was critical of a young Joe Louis, saying he was susceptible to overhand rights. A fight or two later he was hammered by Schmeling but became even better afterwards. Jack was a true master and is rightfully at or near the very top.

Also, what do you guys think of Harry Wills rating, overrated or underrated? He edged the great Sam Langford in their long series( I don't know the exact numbers) and could have possible beaten Dempsey.

And thanks to all the excellent replies. No agruments, just talking boxing. Hope for more replies and great boxing talk from you guys.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 17 Sep 2004, 18:28

My underrated list is: Ezzard Charles, Larry Holmes, Gene Tunney and Evander Holyfield. They never got the credit that they deserved.

My overrated list: Floyd Patterson, Wladimir Klitschko, Tommy Morrison, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, and Ken Norton. These are the most overhyped heavyweights that I have ever seen.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 17 Sep 2004, 20:23

I agree Willis is highly under-rated. People say "oh he was big and slow Dempsey would kill him" while reports of the time actually alude that he was a fast big man with considerable skills, and devastating power. He beat Langford not just past his best, but also when Sam was in or very close to his prime. Also beat Mcvey, Jeff Clark, and all the other top black HWs, he is the only guy to beat a prime Fred Fulton (along with Dempsey) and he only lost to Langford when he was green and then to Sharkey and Uzcudun when he was way past his prime. The Jim Johnson loss was a stoppage due to a broken wrist. I think he would've excelled in any era, and its no sure thing he couldn't beaten Dempsey. Willis was no Firpo or 38 yr old Williard . . .

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 18 Sep 2004, 03:18

dempseyfire, I have to say I agree with you on Tyson to an extent. In terms of greatness, he falls outside the top ten without question. If we are talking about fighters in their prime, then he comes somewhere around 5 or a bit below. But based on his accomplishments, well, he overcame several good heavies, but none were close to first tier, and he has now lost five times.

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 21 Sep 2004, 00:16

The Scranton Assassin wrote: You make me want to vomit u ugly piece of shit. I'm glad Don King ripped you off as bad as he did cause your not worth shit nor have you ever been. I hope you see this you fuckin monkey. How dare you steal the nickname of one of the greatest middleweights ever. If ketchel was around in the 80's he would moved up to heavy weight and knocked your simple ass out. Hey I have an idea. Why don't you give Tim Witherspoon a rematch now. I mean, u want to fight Foreman don't you . Oh yea I know why u won't, cause you'll get your fuckin ass kicked again. Why don't you die already and stop trying to feed us that "I'm the most underrated Heavyweight ever" bullshit. :x

...after reading the above, I'd have to disqualify you from being able to fairly judge the skills of Larry Holmes...You sure as hell would be turned away from jury duty if you told them shit like that...

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 22 Sep 2004, 00:30

Sherlock wrote:Who would you guys call the most overrated or most underrated heavyweights of all time? They don't have to be all time greats but can be.

Duane Bobick...37-0-0 and heavily hyped based on that record against no serious competion...then he faced Ken Norton (serious competition)...stopped by the first punch that hit him TKO-1...career went down faster than the Iraqi Air Force...

Mac Foster...ex-marine, started boxing in the service....27-0-0, 27 KO's...heavily hyped based on undefeated record...mouthing off about wanting to fight draft dodger Ali (while he was still in exile)...Foster then 'moved up' against Jerry Quarry in 1970...BIG mistake...KO-5...he also got his chance at Ali a couple years later...wound up in the hospital after losing the 15 round decision...another career nose dive...

Greg Page...my personally most overrated heavy weight...the first few times I saw Page, I must have seen a lot more than was actually there...I was certain he'd be the next heavyweight champ...then he lost to Berbick on the undercard of Holmes-Cooney...if he wins, he's in line to fight Holmes...he did manage to win a piece of the championship a couple years later, and immediately lost it in his first defense...

The Scranton Assassin · Post by **The Scranton Assassin** » 22 Sep 2004, 13:20

Sweet Scientist wrote:
The Scranton Assassin wrote: You make me want to vomit u ugly piece of shit. I'm glad Don King ripped you off as bad as he did cause your not worth shit nor have you ever been. I hope you see this you fuckin monkey. How dare you steal the nickname of one of the greatest middleweights ever. If ketchel was around in the 80's he would moved up to heavy weight and knocked your simple ass out. Hey I have an idea. Why don't you give Tim Witherspoon a rematch now. I mean, u want to fight Foreman don't you . Oh yea I know why u won't, cause you'll get your fuckin ass kicked again. Why don't you die already and stop trying to feed us that "I'm the most underrated Heavyweight ever" bullshit. :x
...after reading the above, I'd have to disqualify you from being able to fairly judge the skills of Larry Holmes...You sure as hell would be turned away from jury duty if you told them shit like that...

Too-Shay

zslayton · Post by **zslayton** » 24 Sep 2004, 13:07

I think Liston, Foreman, Holyfield, Ron Lyle, Ron Lyle, Jimmy Young, are all underrated. Liston, Foreman are result of Ali, while Lyle and Young are a result the era they boxed in. Holyfield doesn't get the credit he deserves because he is still fighting way past his best years, and the crop of heavy's he had to fight in was not the best of all time, but he did beat Bowe at his peak, destroyed Tyson, and beat some other good ones. He did all this coming from LT HVY and he did it by taking abnormal amounts of punishment from much bigger men. I also think Joe Louis is not given enough respect, or Larry Holmes who was a masterful boxer.

I do think Rocky is overrated and I think all white heavy's of the early part of 1900's are overrated. If the black heavy's of the era had been given shots at the title many of these white heavy's would have never held the title. Anyone before Joe Louis that was white and held a title was overrated, including Dempsy. Any of today's prospects is overrated. Ken Norton is overrated.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 24 Sep 2004, 13:42

zslayton wrote:I think Liston, Foreman, Holyfield, Ron Lyle, Ron Lyle, Jimmy Young, are all underrated. Liston, Foreman are result of Ali, while Lyle and Young are a result the era they boxed in. Holyfield doesn't get the credit he deserves because he is still fighting way past his best years, and the crop of heavy's he had to fight in was not the best of all time, but he did beat Bowe at his peak, destroyed Tyson, and beat some other good ones. He did all this coming from LT HVY and he did it by taking abnormal amounts of punishment from much bigger men. I also think Joe Louis is not given enough respect, or Larry Holmes who was a masterful boxer.

I do think Rocky is overrated and I think all white heavy's of the early part of 1900's are overrated. If the black heavy's of the era had been given shots at the title many of these white heavy's would have never held the title. Anyone before Joe Louis that was white and held a title was overrated, including Dempsy. Any of today's prospects is overrated. Ken Norton is overrated.

You are looking at it from modern eyes. Before the Louis reign and the 1950s, the majority of HW fighters were white, whereas today they are noticialiby in the minority. This ensured a wider talent pool and you had more of the top ten white then black. In addition, you had tons of fighters who fought men of any color and if you look at the records of many of these white fighters they more then held their own against top colored fighters. The "black 4" of the teens (Johnson, Jeanette, Mcvey, and Langford, along with perhaps Willis later on) were a cut above but the majority of the other top black HWs lost to the top white fighters they faced . . . .

zurdo · Post by **zurdo** » 25 Sep 2004, 02:15

Underrated
Tommy Burns
Gene Tunney
Max Schmeling
Ezzard Charles
Larry Holmes
Lennox Lewis

Overrated:
John L Sullivan
Rocky Marciano
Sonny Liston
Mike Tyson

computer · Post by **computer** » 25 Sep 2004, 10:27

Overrated : Sonny Liston , Evander Holyfield ,Joe Louis

Underrated : Mike Tyson,

IronKidDynamite · Post by **IronKidDynamite** » 25 Sep 2004, 10:31

dempseyfire wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:Liston is regarded as a top-five heavyweight (or at least very close to that) by most boxing fans and writers. I would say that he is underrated by the general public who know him best as the guy who lost to Ali. He beat (or was ducked by) nearly every top contender of his time, and both of his losses to Ali were under very strange circumstances. It's worth considering how a fight between Ali and a fully prepared, focused Liston would have turned out...

I would disagree about Marciano being overrated, unless you are referring to the people who put him at #1 or #2. True he didn't face the same level of competition that Ali did, but I'd say he's in the bottom half of the top ten at worst.
Liston is under-rated by younger fans (who only know the Liston of the controversial Clay fights). With Rocky, I agree with Carwash. Marciano is not a top 3 guy like some more fanatical fans assest, but top ten no question. Marciano was not nearly as crude as some make him out to be-crude realtive to master boxers like Charles and Walcott, but compared to todays clumsy fools he'd look pretty fast and skillful-he could fire very fast hooks on the inside, and had a very under-rated stiff jab. Not to mention excellent power and being one of the top 5 best conditioned athletes of all time.

In my opinion, the most over-rated HW champion of all time will always be Mike Tyson. Had a formidable run in his late 80s title run, but his wins over Holmes and Spinks in retrospect are really nothing to write home about. And really, Thomas, Tubbs, and Tucker were good HWs, but all were technically very flawed fighters, not to mention the most discplined or conditioned guys in town. Mike never in my opinion proved he could hang at all with those I'd put in my top 10 HWs of all time. Top 20, but def. not one of the best, and that includes prime for prime matchups. No-other fighter has recieved more "he is unbeatable" acclaim after watching the likes of Michael Johnson and Dave Jaco get pummelled into oblivion. Wlad Klitschko beat bums of similar calibre in equally devastating fashion, but his hype machine and highlight reels never really made it overseas. Thus, you have wierd Germans on sites like this still spouting that Wlad is still one of the best HWs of all time . . . . people bought into the hype way too easily . . .

Under-rated . . . . there are many. Ron Lyle and Jess Williard are a couple that come to mind . . . . .

What is your top 10 HW list just curious Dempsey. Or if you don't have one, which HWs you believe greater than Tyson?

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 25 Sep 2004, 14:21

IronKidDynamite wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:Liston is regarded as a top-five heavyweight (or at least very close to that) by most boxing fans and writers. I would say that he is underrated by the general public who know him best as the guy who lost to Ali. He beat (or was ducked by) nearly every top contender of his time, and both of his losses to Ali were under very strange circumstances. It's worth considering how a fight between Ali and a fully prepared, focused Liston would have turned out...

I would disagree about Marciano being overrated, unless you are referring to the people who put him at #1 or #2. True he didn't face the same level of competition that Ali did, but I'd say he's in the bottom half of the top ten at worst.
Liston is under-rated by younger fans (who only know the Liston of the controversial Clay fights). With Rocky, I agree with Carwash. Marciano is not a top 3 guy like some more fanatical fans assest, but top ten no question. Marciano was not nearly as crude as some make him out to be-crude realtive to master boxers like Charles and Walcott, but compared to todays clumsy fools he'd look pretty fast and skillful-he could fire very fast hooks on the inside, and had a very under-rated stiff jab. Not to mention excellent power and being one of the top 5 best conditioned athletes of all time.

In my opinion, the most over-rated HW champion of all time will always be Mike Tyson. Had a formidable run in his late 80s title run, but his wins over Holmes and Spinks in retrospect are really nothing to write home about. And really, Thomas, Tubbs, and Tucker were good HWs, but all were technically very flawed fighters, not to mention the most discplined or conditioned guys in town. Mike never in my opinion proved he could hang at all with those I'd put in my top 10 HWs of all time. Top 20, but def. not one of the best, and that includes prime for prime matchups. No-other fighter has recieved more "he is unbeatable" acclaim after watching the likes of Michael Johnson and Dave Jaco get pummelled into oblivion. Wlad Klitschko beat bums of similar calibre in equally devastating fashion, but his hype machine and highlight reels never really made it overseas. Thus, you have wierd Germans on sites like this still spouting that Wlad is still one of the best HWs of all time . . . . people bought into the hype way too easily . . .

Under-rated . . . . there are many. Ron Lyle and Jess Williard are a couple that come to mind . . . . .
What is your top 10 HW list just curious Dempsey. Or if you don't have one, which HWs you believe greater than Tyson?

IKD-I know you like Tyson, and trust me I wish a young Mike was around today to take out the garbage. He was a very very good HW fighter, but did not do enough to get into the top 10 for me . . . my list . . . and the guys after Johnson can interchange from day to day-it's by no means set in stone.

1) Joe Louis
2) Cassius Clay/Ali
3) Jack Johnson
4) George Foreman
5) Joe Frazier
6) Jack Dempsey
7) Rocky Marciano
8) Sonny Liston
9) Larry Holmes
10) Jim Jefferies
11-15 would be something like this:

11) Jersey Joe Walcott
12) Evander Holyfield
13) Mike Tyson
14) Max Schmeling
15) Lennox Lewis

A big part of my rankings is the depth of their respective eras and their competition, which to me is more important then formal accomplishments. So while Lewis from a statistical standpoint is up in the top 10, his quality of opp in my opinion was weak enough to put him lower . . .

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 26 Sep 2004, 08:15

Really good list dempseyfire. I've trying to but mine together now (at least the top 15) but remembered Sam Langford. He is a legit top 5 fighter ever in any class and an agrument can be made for number 1 fighter ever. He was only 5'8'' and was a top fighter in all divisions, from light to heavy. He is usually considered a heavy and accomplished a lot in all divisions. I've been trying to figure out where he goes on my list, so I was just wondering where he would go on yours. I'll post my top 15 list after I see your analysis of Langford.

Most Overrated/Underrated Heavyweights

Most Overrated/Underrated Heavyweights

Re: Most Overrated/Underrated Heavyweights