Cotto. Is he really that good?

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 20 Sep 2004, 05:08

A legend in the making? I'm not as convinced as i once was. The Pinto fight has left me with as many questions as answers.

Yes, the finish was superb, as were most of the shots he threw. His defence was good, he hardly got tagged with a decent shot all night. His attitude, patience, and general temperament were excellent aswell.

Having said all that, there are what appears to be several deficiencies to his game. When Pinto actually boxed, instead of standing stationary, right in front of Cotto, there were definite signs that it was a tactic that could work. The jab was the one shot which consistantly got through, and Cotto looked almost pedestrian at times when hunting Pinto down. I'm sure that Pinto could have done better (for himself, but maybe not the fans) if he'd have tried to keep the fight at long range. Instead he chose to mix his boxing with a bit of brawling, and paid the price.

Cotto was also overly economical with his punches for my liking. There were extended periods of the fight where he was doing very little. The bad thing for Pinto was the fact that his chin wasn't good enough to stand up to single shots form Cotto.

The combination of the two isn't exactly a new thing for Cotto either. He lost rounds to N'Dou, and even to a lesser extent Sosa, because they were outworking him, and at times out-boxing him. Looking at the lightwelter division, you can already pick out the guys that will cause him problems. Mitchell would be a nightmare opponent i think, Mayweather would also be a struggle. Of course, on the other hand, you can pick out the guys he'd do well against, Gatti is made for Cotto, as is Hatton i feel.

On a side note, it finally brings to an end people saying that Pinto chickened out of the Hatton fight. If he was a coward he wouldn't have fought Cotto (a better fighter) in his backyard. It begs the question, what really went on there?

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 20 Sep 2004, 05:14

He's the next superstar no question.

Can he box - yes

Can he punch - yes

Can he move - yes

Is he quick - yes

Can he hold a shot - yes

Is he fearless - yes

Is his defence good - yes

Does he have stamina - yes

Has he fought good opp - yes

Is he two years younger, had half the fights and hold a more prestigious belt than his closest rival prospect? - Definite yes.

His tactics and defence against Pinto were awesome. Good head movement, tight guard, low chin, movement from the hips, great combintions, solid work ethic, the kid has few weaknesses.

Stop hating - start loving.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 20 Sep 2004, 05:37

Cotto is definitely the man. He has no obvious weakness. Ricky Hatton wouldn't last 3 rounds with him I'm afraid.

J · Post by J » 20 Sep 2004, 05:39

He does have one weakness, too left hand happy, but what a left hand.

bugs · Post by **bugs** » 20 Sep 2004, 05:48

He seemed to shirnk a little when Pinto put him under pressure, volleys of punches like those Hatton can throw may be just what is needed.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 20 Sep 2004, 06:29

This guy is a destroyer. Puerto Rico can breath a sigh of relief - Tito's heir apparent is alive and well.
Pinto was brave enough, just outboxed, outgunned, out everythinged.
How would the Brazilian have done vs Hatton I wonder?

Talk of Cotto v Hatton is just hilarious. Frank is going to let Cotto anywhere near Ricky?

Yep I'm sure he will, and he'll be sitting ringside in a pink tutu no doubt.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 20 Sep 2004, 07:14

Cotto is the future, no doubt.

I no longer have any interest in Hatton as he has become a COMPLETE joke, so I'd like to see Cotto vs Witter. Witter can do it.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 20 Sep 2004, 07:15

Hatton could have beaten Pinto, but he'd never have stopped him IMO, that Brazlian was tough. It would have been Hatton's most difficult night by far.

I think the trouble with us Brits sometimes is that we get fixated on our fighters best attributes. Naz at his best had superb reflexes and handspeed, but he was clearly inferior to the 130 pound Floyd Mayweather.

Ricky Hatton has a very good workrate, but it doesn't mean no other fighter can match it. Also Miguel Cotto is much more accurate and inflicts a lot more damage.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 20 Sep 2004, 08:37

David Haye was also the future. Miguel Cotto has beaten a bunch of used up lightweights and two decent light-welters (N'dou and Pinto). That's it. Let's wait and see till he fights someone good. Then we'll find out if he really is the bees knees.

J · Post by J » 20 Sep 2004, 08:52

bennie wrote:David Haye was also the future. Miguel Cotto has beaten a bunch of used up lightweights and two decent light-welters (N'dou and Pinto). That's it. Let's wait and see till he fights someone good. Then we'll find out if he really is the bees knees.

good post tho he has looked awesome in what he has done so far.
we havent really seen anyone give him some back as yet, be interesting to see what happens then. But all the signs are there.

It does make me laugh tho, even the pundits are giving it some saying he would beat Kostya and mitchell, thats by no means assured. In fact Mitchell has the style to give him a nightmares.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 20 Sep 2004, 08:53

To be fair I think Cotto has proven a heck of a lot more than Haye had.

J · Post by J » 20 Sep 2004, 08:54

thats also very true!

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 20 Sep 2004, 09:08

You can tell just by watching Cotto, how good he is. With Haye you saw weaknesses there.

Loynesy · Post by **Loynesy** » 20 Sep 2004, 09:24

Depends how you define Legend. His handspeed and punch selection is beautiful as is his command of the ring, but I think he takes too many shots and likes a good tear-up too much to go through his career without a few mishaps.

None of us know how Tszyu's lay off will affect him, but he is a massively under estimated boxer. If he hasn't been in decline in the last 18 months, I would rate him 80:20 to beat Cotto.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 20 Sep 2004, 09:50

When I compare David Haye with Miguel Cotto, I'm only comparing reputation - the feeling that a man can't fail, even though that man has yet to prove himself against the best.
Yes, Cotto has beaten decent men, but, and there's no getting around this, Ricky Hatton has beaten better men.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 20 Sep 2004, 10:20

I think Pinto & N'Dou would comfortably beat all the guys Hatton has faced.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 20 Sep 2004, 10:24

bennie wrote:When I compare David Haye with Miguel Cotto, I'm only comparing reputation - the feeling that a man can't fail, even though that man has yet to prove himself against the best.
Yes, Cotto has beaten decent men, but, and there's no getting around this, Ricky Hatton has beaten better men.

And Hatton has had twice as long to do it and twice as many fights and is two years older too.

Cotto is roughly where Hatton was twelve months ago - plus he has a belt (of some meaning).

I hope Hatton v Cotto could be made, Hatton is a very competitive fight for anyone in the division and probably at 147 too he just needs to have the fight before he's over-ripe.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Sep 2004, 10:35

I would rate N'Dou at the same level as Ben Tackie, and in fact a similar fighter, very tough, limited but powerful with good stamina, dangerous if taken lightly, but can be outboxed

I think that whilst Cotto is no more proven than Hatton, he is no less proven either.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 20 Sep 2004, 11:35

Cotto is still unproven. Hatton is still unproven. Both men look like they have the ability to make the step up, but, right now, we just don't know.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 20 Sep 2004, 11:46

I thought McGuigan went way over the top in his praise of Cotto after the Pinto fight. Declaring that he would beat Tszyu and Mitchell, I think he would beat Mitchell in a tough fight but Tszyu if he's anything like before would be tough. I love Cotto's left hook to the body, he landed some monsters on N'Dou and cracked his rib with one, only N'Dou's toughness kept him up.

What the hell was Frank going on about declaring Ricky would beat Tszyu? Ive seen nothing from Ricky recently that suggests that he could. He must think fighting these guys who only come to survive means something. Tszyu would come with ambition and would make Ricky pay.

Also McGuigan saying to keep Ricky away from Cotto for a few years yet? What the hell was that about? Ricky is in his prime and he's basically saying to protect him from the top guys even more. Cotto would eat Ricky alive imo, but he certainly shouldn't be kept away from him. Running from a guy with only 21 fights would be laughable. Prepare to laugh then everyone when Ricky withdraws for the 3rd time from a mandatore position. Frank saying he will fight the winner of Tszyu/Mitchell next is laughable. Their are a million reasons why that fight won't happen.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 20 Sep 2004, 11:59

jamesmcdonnell wrote: I think that whilst Cotto is no more proven than Hatton, he is no less proven either.

Would you therefore conclude he's AS proven perchance?

Cannibal · Post by **Cannibal** » 20 Sep 2004, 12:23

I think Hatton could beat Cotto if he can stay on his feet.

It would be a fight that would end 1 of 2 ways, a Cotto KO or a Hatton decision. I think if Hatton could go the distance with Cotto his work rate would take a lot of rounds. Hatton would need to stay on his feet though, I think if Ricky is standing at the final bell he takes the fight.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Sep 2004, 16:46

Lefthook, I think Barry is obviously thinking/assuming that Tszyu won't be the fighter he once was. He said that Hatton wasn't ready for him a few weeks after Tszyu beat Leijla - now he is. Suggests that he think (probably with good reason) that Tszyu will not be the same.

Bennie - whilst I can see what your trying to say, I not sure I entirely agree. Cotto has ALWAYS looked the real deal, even when he's stepped up to true world class (N'dou - still his best opponent). However, there have (or at least should have) been question marks raised about Haye following the Mock fight. None of his opponent between Mock and Thompson were good enough (or in Williams' case young enough) to answer those questions.

I still think Gatti and especially Mayweather can pose questions to Cotto and also Tszyu should he beat Mitchell (which in itself will prove he's still got something). However, the only Light Welter I would tip to beat Cotto is Mayweather.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 20 Sep 2004, 17:22

Pinto had success....i'd be suprised if he didn't... He has good skills himself...and is 6 foot remember! If he sticks out that jab...you can forgive anyone for not looking spectacular for 1 round.

I think Pinto is a dark horse....and Cotto's victory may gain greater recognition through time.

mickeybeard · Post by **mickeybeard** » 20 Sep 2004, 18:09

glittermonkey wrote:Having said all that, there are what appears to be several deficiencies to his game. When Pinto actually boxed, instead of standing stationary, right in front of Cotto, there were definite signs that it was a tactic that could work. The jab was the one shot which consistantly got through, and Cotto looked almost pedestrian at times when hunting Pinto down.

Pretty much what I thought too. A mover who actually pays some attention to his defence could cause Cotto real problems. I think Mayweather might make him look very one-paced indeed, should they fight. Of course, as Bennie said, it all conjecture - and the picking of holes is as much theorising as the hyperbole. The good thing about Cotto: I really think we'll get to find out how good he is. The guy doesn't look like ducking anyone.

Cotto. Is he really that good?

Cotto. Is he really that good?

Re: Cotto. Is he really that good?