Calzaghe - "I can beat Wlad Klitschko"

[mickey1975]

I think Calzaghe did better vs Hopkins than Taylor.

I don't think ppl are being fair to Froch. It's almost like you're so used to Joe dominating a fighter good or bad, that it isn't legitimate to score a come from behind KO.


Froch did not fight in any kind of comfort zone, but he pulled out something special. If you look at the Pascal fight, he didn't have to knock Pascal out because he was likely 4 rounds ahead vs a very good fighter, future WBC 175 champ, by the end.

As if Froch has to come from behind vs any good fighter. Pascal - if he could still make 168 and keep his best abilities - would have been as worthy as anyone to get in the super 6.

if joe won that 175 crown you would be going on about alledgedley's contacts,never fought dawson,etc.if froch wins the super six,i will rate him above joe.until then,he just cant compare

[Autobarn]

ppl are starting to say, froch can't wait for a last round KO vs every good fighter. well as i saw saying, pascal was a good fighter, and froch was ahead on points.

nah, i'm not bothered about joe not fighting dawson or pavlik. pavlik was meant to be on his way to being something, but he wasn't a star at the time. dawson has become a tepid fighter and there is no big money in fighting him. better just to have those excellent wins over kessler and lacy, and - given that he wasn't paid for the hopkins fight - just retire on an easy payday (rjj).

he could perhaps have called out tomasz adamek for a catchweight that would allow joe to fight for a cruiserweight title, and that would surely garner plenty of interest over here. however, joe's not one to take that kind of risk, and the last time he was on hbo vs a european the ratings were crap. meaning they take the Yank money, but give little to the Yank industry. i..e paid more than they are worth. heck, ratings weren't good for hopkins fight either and the PPV v jones was hardly a blockbuster...and adamek has been all but abandoned by US tv, so there probably woudn't be the money to make the risk worth it.

nah, better to milk that udder dry, to take and not give back (being realistic here, not cynical), to get out of it and let ppl forget about you.

[mickey1975]

sorry mate,your only not bothered about joe boxing pavlik and dawson because it would contradict your argument when froch wont box them either!

[Autobarn]

sorry mate,your only not bothered about joe boxing pavlik and dawson because it would contradict your argument when froch wont box them either!

you seem pretty sure of that. froch is in a super middle tournament so what would the point be in fighting a light heavy champ without a belt (dawson), and a middleweight champ whose stock has gone way down (pavlik)?

froch has his plate full and there are plenty of challengers in this super six tournament. froch stepped up, won 2 great title fights, and now he is in a tournament that is the talk of the boxing world. he has his stage.

[mickey1975]

sorry mate,your only not bothered about joe boxing pavlik and dawson because it would contradict your argument when froch wont box them either!

you seem pretty sure of that. froch is in a super middle tournament so what would the point be in fighting a light heavy champ without a belt (dawson), and a middleweight champ whose stock has gone way down (pavlik)?

froch has his plate full and there are plenty of challengers in this super six tournament. froch stepped up, won 2 great title fights, and now he is in a tournament that is the talk of the boxing world. he has his stage.

i actually agree with you on a lot of points but dont see the point in putting down joe.he had his faults,but was very good at what he did.and believe me,im not biased towards joe

[Autobarn]

yeah joe was good, great nights v lacy and kessler proved he was top 10 p4p. just didn't enjoy most of the fights. he didn't have to fight dawson, due to dawson's shocking lack of charisma and entertainment value.

[observer1]

The issue is this.

Joe held a WBO belt for most of his career.
He made virtually NO effort into unifying the division.

He was around guys like Hopkins, Toney, RJJ, Tarver, Johnson etc. long enough to Prime v Prime to atleast one of them.

He didn't.

It was only when Hopkins and RJJ were about to retire or couldn't get a big bout any more that Joe suddenly conveniently went after them.

Say what you want. I dont rate anyone who's best win is against Kessler. His career is one big Question Mark

[Croydon1]

The impression I get of Joe, especially when reading his autobiography was that he did not have much self-confidence. He talks of not wanting to travel on airplanes, psychological stuff such as thinking food is lodged in his throat when he eats before fights and it drags him down and the constant pulling out of fights due to hand injuries, all nervous excuses. Lots of people suffer injuries but his seemed to psychologically affect him more and he used them as excuses.

He knew he was good but he was $hit scared of losing. It wasnt until he realised he was cracking on a bit he had to take a big risk and face Lacy, all of a sudden he realised he really was world class and then decided he could fight big names but all of a sudden it is too late, he should have been making these millions years ago.

And this beating Wlad lark is nonsense.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

I thought Hopkins beat Calzaghe, too. I also thought he'd get the decision at the end, and was shocked when they went for Calzaghe.

I'm sorry, as lazy as Hopkins was down the stretch, you don't win fights by slapping your arms in circles and bum-rushing an opponent in sheer desperation. Joe was a panicked mess all night against Hopkins, as he quickly realised B-Hop was superior to him technically and could make him look silly when he opened up.

I honestly don't remember Calzaghe landing one clean, scoring shot in that whole fight. Hopkins didn't land much himself, but what he did throw landed and counted.

the fact that hopkins got hit more times in that fight than any other fight he'd ever had, and spent most of it wrestling or faking low blows, and you only saw one clean punch means ur either badly sited, need a 100mhz tv or are clearly bias. its was an obvious calzaghe win, hopkins didnt do anything after the 1st round.

1. There hasnt and never will be a 100mhz TV, there are 100hz TVs, I have 1, it doesnt mean the fight is broadcast in any more frames
2. Hopkins landed the much better cleaner shots throughout the fight, Calzaghe not only used meaningless slaps, he missed most of his shots, there were times he would throw 6punches and miss all of them and get tagged with
3. Allot of people score shots that slightly miss, obviously these aren't scoring punches. Some people also think a weak punch of slap

A vid of what Im talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zebku8KZ ... re=related

[gobbles]

I thought Hopkins beat Calzaghe, too. I also thought he'd get the decision at the end, and was shocked when they went for Calzaghe.

I'm sorry, as lazy as Hopkins was down the stretch, you don't win fights by slapping your arms in circles and bum-rushing an opponent in sheer desperation. Joe was a panicked mess all night against Hopkins, as he quickly realised B-Hop was superior to him technically and could make him look silly when he opened up.

I honestly don't remember Calzaghe landing one clean, scoring shot in that whole fight. Hopkins didn't land much himself, but what he did throw landed and counted.

the fact that hopkins got hit more times in that fight than any other fight he'd ever had, and spent most of it wrestling or faking low blows, and you only saw one clean punch means ur either badly sited, need a 100mhz tv or are clearly bias. its was an obvious calzaghe win, hopkins didnt do anything after the 1st round.

1. There hasnt and never will be a 100mhz TV, there are 100hz TVs, I have 1, it doesnt mean the fight is broadcast in any more frames
2. Hopkins landed the much better cleaner shots throughout the fight, Calzaghe not only used meaningless slaps, he missed most of his shots, there were times he would throw 6punches and miss all of them and get tagged with
3. Allot of people score shots that slightly miss, obviously these aren't scoring punches. Some people also think a weak punch of slap

A vid of what Im talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zebku8KZ ... re=related

I fail to see hardly any evidence of Hopkins landing clean punches in that video, apart from the knockdown. It shows him using his head a lot and holding and shows him missing with some shots (and that, presumably, was put together by a Hopkins fan). 36 minutes of action and that was what they came up with?

[Quixall]

calzaghe has brain damage

but its certainly not from all those top rated opponents he fought during his career

froch wants to fight the best
calzaghe fought the wbo bums of the month for 10 years

thats why you are undefeated joe

Froch wants to fight the best eh ?

Like who exactly ? Oh yeah, Jermain Taylor, the guy who is having more comebacks than Ali.......

that's the same jermain taylor that beat hopkins twice, three years before joe did. froch is wanting to fight the best because he is in the tournament coming up. joe wasn't commerical enough to come to the US because he didn't take any chances. froch is taking big chances by being in this tournament. do you think calzaghe would have joined in this tourney when he in the midst of defending his wbo title against bums?

Jermain Taylor.......The guy who won dubious decisions against Hopkins and drew with wright

Then lost to Pavlik twice and got knowcked out once, then nearly came unstuck against Jeff Lacy and got sparked by Froch. Now, he is returning once again.......Like i say, more comebacks than Ali

When Froch has won the same amount as Calzaghe, then start crowing, but not before.......Froch isn't in Calzaghe's class, good fighter, but so many flaws, he's bound to be sparked sooner or later

[Quixall]

I remember sitting down a few years ago with Arthur Abraham and chatting in a mix of English and German and him saying how he thought Calzaghe was such a great fighter. Joe, he said, had an impossible to read style, because while there were some soft punches and a few slaps, he would mix in some really hard shots, so the guy facing him was unable to set himself, as he never knew when Joe would throw a soft punch, or when the power shots were coming. Kessler said this too after he fought him, how he was just overwhelmed by the punches and didn't know what was coming.

If you think all Calzaghe did against Hopkins was slap, or rush him, you were watching that fight wearing blinkers. Joe was a much smarter fighter than that, a really clever technician, who was capable of changing tactics mid fight, was brave as hell and incredibly quick for a 12st fighter. And climbing off the floor twice in the first round to win is pretty impressive too.

Thanks for that post. Really insightful.

I scored the fight for Hopkins by a round. Hopkins got the first round knock down to have a 10-8 round and won the next 6 rounds for me, even though some were tough to call. The margin that one judge gave Calzaghe was ridiculous, he scored it by three rounds to Calzaghe. Calzaghe won the last 5 or 6 rounds, due to Hopkins' stamina fading, but with the 10-8 first round against him, he should have lost that fight in my eyes and to have him three rounds ahead was way out IMO. Hopkins schooled Calzaghe and had the perfect stratergy and neutralised a lot of his style and skills set for the first seven rounds and then faded due to his age. Hopkins had the better quality work, by a long way, but the judges just go on the amount of punches thrown and who looks to be the aggressor and that's why he got the decision. I remeber listening to it on the radio (i have seen the fight aswell) and at the end of the 12th round, the commentators all had Calzaghe behind by at least two rounds. A younger Hopkins and Jones for that matter would have beaten Calzaghe quite easily. Good fighter, but over-rated IMO

[observer1]

Agree.

I had Hopkins up.

Funny thing is, even the British setanta commentators though Joe lost.

[josh fg]

calzaghe has brain damage

but its certainly not from all those top rated opponents he fought during his career

froch wants to fight the best
calzaghe fought the wbo bums of the month for 10 years

thats why you are undefeated joe

Froch wants to fight the best eh ?

Like who exactly ? Oh yeah, Jermain Taylor, the guy who is having more comebacks than Ali.......

that's the same jermain taylor that beat hopkins twice, three years before joe did. froch is wanting to fight the best because he is in the tournament coming up. joe wasn't commerical enough to come to the US because he didn't take any chances. froch is taking big chances by being in this tournament. do you think calzaghe would have joined in this tourney when he in the midst of defending his wbo title against bums?

Jermain Taylor.......The guy who won dubious decisions against Hopkins and drew with wright

Then lost to Pavlik twice and got knowcked out once, then nearly came unstuck against Jeff Lacy and got sparked by Froch. Now, he is returning once again.......Like i say, more comebacks than Ali

When Froch has won the same amount as Calzaghe, then start crowing, but not before.......Froch isn't in Calzaghe's class, good fighter, but so many flaws, he's bound to be sparked sooner or later

It's clearly not about numbers of victories, you could beat 20 peter buckley's it's about the quality of opponents or rob calloway is up there with one of the best records, if Froch beats Abrhams (an undisputed champion at another weight) Kesslar (a champion at super middle weight and probably the best name on Joe Calzaghe's record) and Dirrell as good as some of the better names on Calzaghe's record (Viet, Woodall etc) then allong with Pascal (who was in his prime and has since won a world title at a higher weight) and Taylor (a former champion at a lower weight comming off a good win) then he'll be pretty close to Calzaghe legacy wise, if (and it's a massive if) he does that will you Quixall come on this forum and say you admit they are at least on a par and froch has proved you wrong.

[gobbles]

Agree.

I had Hopkins up.

Funny thing is, even the British setanta commentators though Joe lost.

Yeah and America's HBO commentators all thought Calzaghe pissed it. What was it Harlod Lederman had it? Calzaghe by 5? You're the biggest Calzaghe hater on this board, who cares what you think?

Strange that Duke McKenzie gets such a big up with people trying discredit Joe, but slag him to high heaven on every other thread.

[crusader]

I'm not the biggest Calzaghe fan but I thought he clearly won the fight. Its hard for me to see Hopkins as the victor when he was outworked, out landed by about 100 punches, and throwing nothing in return.

[Autobarn]

Agree.

I had Hopkins up.

Funny thing is, even the British setanta commentators though Joe lost.

Yeah and America's HBO commentators all thought Calzaghe pissed it. What was it Harlod Lederman had it? Calzaghe by 5? You're the biggest Calzaghe hater on this board, who cares what you think?
Strange that Duke McKenzie gets such a big up with people trying discredit Joe, but slag him to high heaven on every other thread.

don't worry

observer will

MISS HIM NOW HE'S GOONE

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

the fact that hopkins got hit more times in that fight than any other fight he'd ever had, and spent most of it wrestling or faking low blows, and you only saw one clean punch means ur either badly sited, need a 100mhz tv or are clearly bias. its was an obvious calzaghe win, hopkins didnt do anything after the 1st round.

1. There hasnt and never will be a 100mhz TV, there are 100hz TVs, I have 1, it doesnt mean the fight is broadcast in any more frames
2. Hopkins landed the much better cleaner shots throughout the fight, Calzaghe not only used meaningless slaps, he missed most of his shots, there were times he would throw 6punches and miss all of them and get tagged with
3. Allot of people score shots that slightly miss, obviously these aren't scoring punches. Some people also think a weak punch of slap

A vid of what Im talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zebku8KZ ... re=related

I fail to see hardly any evidence of Hopkins landing clean punches in that video, apart from the knockdown. It shows him using his head a lot and holding and shows him missing with some shots (and that, presumably, was put together by a Hopkins fan). 36 minutes of action and that was what they came up with?

there was more clean punches in that video than Calzaghe landed in the fight

[Dioufy]

BHOP 114-113 Calzaghe.

[crusader]

Calzaghe 115-112 Hopkins

[whiskey]

Guys guys guys ! Can we get back on topic?

I'd pick Calzaghe to brutally cuff and slap Vlad Klitschko into an unconscious heap within 3 brutal rounds.

No let's be serious here - Joe has already stated that he was better than Lennox Lewis when he was cleaning out the heavyweight division, fighting from Vegas to Madison Square Garden, unifying the world titles.

He also admits that although he is better than Lewis, he'd not DARE step in the ring with Roy Jones unless he 'got paid the crown jewels'.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/art ... article.do

[josh fg]

how you can score that fight for hopkins? he didn't want to fight, he came to spoil, didn't take one step forward in the whole fight, even after he dropped joe! he was completely out landed throughout the fight. joe 115-112.

I guess you think Prince Nas lost every fight then he didn't take forward steps that often ether!

[HomicideHenry]

If B-Hop and faded, shot Roy Jones could drop Calzaghe in the 1st rounds, then by God, I'd hate to see what Wladimir would do to Joe Calzaghe----stay down Joe! Stay down! If you make a come back, fight Froch!

[bjermaine]

Agree.

I had Hopkins up.

Funny thing is, even the British setanta commentators though Joe lost.

Yeah and America's HBO commentators all thought Calzaghe pissed it. What was it Harlod Lederman had it? Calzaghe by 5? You're the biggest Calzaghe hater on this board, who cares what you think?

Strange that Duke McKenzie gets such a big up with people trying discredit Joe, but slag him to high heaven on every other thread.

i take offense to that comment i was at the fight and had joe up by 3 points but i was also influenced by 12,000 welshmen yelling at every slap joe threw. it was hardly an impressive performance.

[Poncey]

It appears to be April 2008. My time machine works!