Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Rick
I think the last PM you sent me was the one I sent to you,I think. :??

[dagosd2000]

Jack Dempsey

[dagosd2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4aide3I-UY

Blues After Hours. Pee Wee Crayton

Hope you feel better Frank. Rog

[Rick Farris]

Hell Frank
Where have you been?I thought you slipped into a coma? I just ran out of hooch. I'm going to make quick run to the store. Be back in ten.
Roger, I'm still alive, just not doing too good of late, btw did you buy some "pisto" last nite?


Frank
Hope you're feeling better. Ran into Pete the cop at the cigar store on the way home from the liquor store.Wound up at his place drinking tequila and smoking cigars watching the Padres win their 5th straight.

Try drinking tequila and smoking cigars. It's good for your health. At least your mental health. :
Roger, in my younger days, I was a tequila drinking, cigars smoking kind of guy, still have a shot and smoke a stoogie now and then....
Roger, I'm smoking a Cuban cigar "Cohiba" as I sit here writing.

The life of a "kept man!"

Its a great life Rick....



Connie made me get out of the house with my cigar...

Getting out of the house can be a good thing, too. ;;-)
The more I hear the more I dream of joining the "kept man" society.
Just one thing Frank, you're just kidding about the housework & laundry, right? Like you were about "going to work"?
The thought of a kept man having to do chores kind of jades my fantasy .
As my role model, I hope you'll keep that in mind.


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Rick
I think the last PM you sent me was the one I sent to you,I think. :??

Sorry, Rog. Whatever I wrote wasn't important. Along the lines of what we were discussing.

[Rick Farris]

Jack Dempsey

[dagosd2000]

Hell Frank
Where have you been?I thought you slipped into a coma? I just ran out of hooch. I'm going to make quick run to the store. Be back in ten.
Roger, I'm still alive, just not doing too good of late, btw did you buy some "pisto" last nite?


Frank
Hope you're feeling better. Ran into Pete the cop at the cigar store on the way home from the liquor store.Wound up at his place drinking tequila and smoking cigars watching the Padres win their 5th straight.

Try drinking tequila and smoking cigars. It's good for your health. At least your mental health. :
Roger, in my younger days, I was a tequila drinking, cigars smoking kind of guy, still have a shot and smoke a stoogie now and then....
Roger, I'm smoking a Cuban cigar "Cohiba" as I sit here writing.

The life of a "kept man!"

Its a great life Rick....



Connie made me get out of the house with my cigar...

Getting out of the house can be a good thing, too. ;;-)
The more I hear the more I dream of joining the "kept man" society.
Just one thing Frank, you're just kidding about the housework & laundry, right? Like you were about "going to work"?
The thought of a kept man having to do chores kind of jades my fantasy .
As my role model, I hope you'll keep that in mind.


-Rick Farris

Frank
I've to go along with Rick. Doing chores? My wife has been gone a week and I can't wait till she comes back to do the chores. If I had my way I'd rather go to work. At least I get paid for it.

[Expug]

Work?
fuggedaboddit.
Remember guys , we're racehorses.
Ya dont strap a racehorse to a sh.t wagon.

[Rick Farris]

Work?
fuggedaboddit.
Remember guys , we're racehorses.
Ya dont strap a racehorse to a sh.t wagon.

My thoughts, exactly!

[kikibalt]

Getting out of the house can be a good thing, too. ;;-)
The more I hear the more I dream of joining the "kept man" society.
Just one thing Frank, you're just kidding about the housework & laundry, right? Like you were about "going to work"?
The thought of a kept man having to do chores kind of jades my fantasy .
As my role model, I hope you'll keep that in mind.


-Rick Farris

No kidding Rick, I do do housework and laundry, Connie is not happy about the way I do both, but hey, she can't have everything her way, you know doing said chores is not a high price to pay to been able to stay in bed after she goes off to work, and to do eveything on my own leisure, only way to fly....

[kikibalt]

I received word today that Ramon Fuentes who fought and BEAT Art Aragon, Mario Trigo and Kid Gavilan among others has pass

RIP



Ramon Fuentes

birth date 1925-11-20
division welterweight
nationality United States
alias Chuck Moody
residence Los Angeles, California, United States
won 41 (KO 12) + lost 15 (KO 2) + drawn 1 = 57
rounds boxed 481 : KO% 21.05

1958-07-31 155 Jimmy Martinez 154 88-30-10
Civic Auditorium, Albuquerque, New Mexico, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Marshall Leach 98-99 | judge: Willis Barnes 94-96 | judge: Harry Bremer 95-97 ~

1958-05-20 154¾ Tony Dupas 157 28-6-0
Municipal Auditorium, New Orleans, Louisiana, United States L PTS 10 10

1958-05-06 154 Phil Moyer 158 6-0-0
Auditorium, Portland, Oregon, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Ralph Gruman 52-58 | judge: Andy Crabtree 51½-58½ | judge: Mike Smith 54-56 ~

1958-04-07 145¾ Ralph Dupas 142 69-8-6
New Orleans, Louisiana, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Kenny Snow 1-7 | judge: Eddie Wolfe 1-9 | judge: Lucien Joubert 1-8 ~

1957-11-04 156¾ Joe Miceli 150 54-30-7
Civic Auditorium, Honolulu, Hawaii, United States L SD 10 10

1957-09-02 152¾ Stan Harrington 151 21-2-1
Civic Auditorium, Honolulu, Hawaii, United States W UD 10 10

1957-07-15 161¼ Billy Hester 161 14-2-1
Sydney Stadium, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia L TKO 9 12
~ referee: Vic Patrick ~
Cut eye stoppage.

1957-06-28 160 Luigi Coluzzi 156½ 30-13-2
West Melbourne Stadium, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia W PTS 12 12
~ referee: Terry Reilly ~

1957-03-11 151¾ Del Flanagan 149 82-13-2
Auditorium, Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States L UD 10 10
According to the United Press, Flanagan won by 16, 15, and 13 points on the official scorecards, as he won every round.

1956-12-20 153½ Kid Gavilan 152 105-23-5
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W SD 10 10
~ referee: Tommy Hart 96-95 | judge: Frankie Van 96-95 | judge: Mushy Callahan 92-98 ~

1956-09-10 152 Chico Vejar 153 65-7-2
Columbia Hall, Stamford, Connecticut, United States L PTS 10 10

1956-07-24 154¼ Chico Vejar 154½ 65-6-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W SD 10 10
~ referee: Frankie Van 94-95 | judge: Lee Grossman 96-94 | judge: Jimmy Wilson 98-94 ~

1956-06-23 149¾ Duke Harris 148¾ 20-3-1
Keyworth Stadium, Hamtramck, Michigan, United States L UD 10 10

1956-05-28 157 Sonny Gill 159 23-5-1
Coliseum, San Diego, California, United States W PTS 10 10
~ referee: Frank Rustich 97-93 ~

1956-03-22 153½ Mickey Savage 148 29-10-2
Auditorium, Richmond, California, United States W KO 4 10
~ referee: Fred Apostoli ~

1956-02-10 147 Isaac Logart 146 40-5-5
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States L SD 10 10
~ referee: Ruby Goldstein 4-5 | judge: Bert Grant 4-6 | judge: Joe Vaccarella 6-5 ~

1955-11-24 150¾ Joe Miceli 149 47-22-7
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Jimmy Wilson 58½-51½ | judge: Russ Bradford 60-50 | judge: George Latka 59-51 ~

1955-10-06 154½ Joe Miceli 149 46-22-7
Winterland Arena, San Francisco, California, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Frankie Carter 51½-58½ | judge: Vern Bybee 50-60 | judge: Frankie Brown 49½-60 ~
Fuentes was down once in the 2nd round and twice in the 7th.

1955-08-09 149 Al Juergens 143 27-15-2
Municipal Auditorium, San Antonio, Texas, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Leonard Zuniga 100-88 | judge: Ralph Silverman 99-92 | judge: Art Dana 98-95 ~

1955-07-20 151 Hector Constance 147½ 24-5-8
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States W SD 10 10
~ referee: Al Berl 4-5 | judge: Joe Agnello 7-3 | judge: Frank Forbes 5-4 ~

1955-05-20 153¾ Gil Turner 154½ 48-7-0
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States D PTS 10 10
~ referee: Al Berl 4-5 | judge: Frank Forbes 5-5 | judge: Joe Agnello 7-3 ~

1955-03-19 George Barnes 30-7-2
White City Tennis Courts, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia W PTS 12 12
~ referee: Bill Henneberry ~

1955-01-28 153 Georgie Johnson 154 28-6-0
Convention Hall, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States L SD 10 10
Fuentes was knocked down in the 10th

1954-12-02 149½ Johnny Saxton 148 45-2-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Frankie Van 51½-58½ | judge: Tommy Hart 54-56 | judge: Charley Randolph 54-56 ~

1954-10-21 150 Billy Graham 150 102-12-9
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Frankie Van 60½-49½ | judge: Mushy Callahan 60½-49½ | judge: Charley Randolph 60-50 ~

1954-10-05 147 Ernie Greer 147 20-17-10
Memorial Auditorium, Sacramento, California, United States W PTS 12 12
California State Welterweight Title

1954-07-12 147 Carmine Fiore 146¾ 47-15-5
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Frankie Van 59-51 | judge: Tommy Hart 60½-49½ | judge: Dynamite Jackson 61-49 ~

1954-05-04 147 Frankie Fernandez 146 28-4-1
Honolulu Stadium, Honolulu, Hawaii, United States W PTS 10 10

1954-04-19 154¼ Jimmy Martinez 153 52-11-5
Auditorium, Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States W UD 10 10

1954-03-02 147 Art Soto 147 34-18-3
Sacramento, California, United States W PTS 12 12
California State Welterweight Title

1953-12-01 146½ Mario Trigo 141½ 61-39-10
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 8 12
~ time: 2:46 | referee: Reggie Gilmore 44-33 ~
California State Welterweight Title
Trigo was knocked down once in the 2nd and 8th round.

1953-11-06 149 Danny Womber 149 43-21-11
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Abe Roth 58-52 | judge: Joe Stone 58-52 | judge: Charley Randolph 57-53 ~

1953-10-02 147 Art Aragon 145¼ 58-13-5
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Charley Randolph 58-52 | judge: Reggie Gilmore 56-54 | judge: Joe Stone 56½-53½ ~
Fuentes California State Welterweight would have been won by Aragon had he scored a kayo, it was otherwise not on the line, because the bout was not scheduled for 12 rounds.

1953-08-12 151 Gil Turner 150¾ 38-3-0
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States L KO 5 10
~ time: 2:49 | referee: Ruby Goldstein ~

1953-07-15 148¾ Kid Gavilan 152¼ 92-13-4
Arena, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Dauber Jaeger ~
Scoring: 8-3, 6-3, 8-4; Attendance: 4,000
Fuentes down in the 7th for a count of "nine"

1953-05-08 147 Al Wilson 146¾ 22-10-2
St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Petey Scalzo 5-4 | judge: Arthur Schwartz 5-3 | judge: Young Otto 7-3 ~

1953-03-17 146 Freddie Herman 143 39-29-5
Sacramento, California, United States W TKO 5 12
~ referee: John Bassinelli ~
California State Welterweight Title

1952-12-30 147¼ Clifton Lester 154 33-22-5
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W KO 8 10
~ referee: Mushy Callahan 39½-37½ ~
Fuentes was knocked down in the 3rd round.

1952-10-28 148 John LaBroi 149½ 26-11-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 7 10
~ time: 1:23 | referee: Abe Roth ~
LaBroi was knocked down twice in the 6th round, and once in the 7th round.

1952-09-30 146 John LaBroi 153 26-10-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W RTD 7 10
~ referee: Abe Roth ~
LaBroi did not come out for the 8th round.

1952-09-02 145 Gerald LaBroi 144 20-12-5
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 6 12
~ time: 2:46 | referee: Frankie Van ~
California State Welterweight Title
LaBroi was knocked down once in the 5th, and twice in the 6th round.

1952-07-29 147 Mario Trigo 142 57-33-9
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 12 12
~ referee: Frankie Van 68½-61½ | judge: Dynamite Jackson 70½-59½ | judge: Reggie Gilmore 68½-61½ ~
California State Welterweight Title

1952-07-01 148¾ Woody Harper 149 5-13-5
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 5 10
~ time: 2:31 | referee: Mushy Callahan 25-19 ~

1952-05-20 146 Bobby Jones 147 31-16-7
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 12 12
~ referee: Reggie Gilmore 67-65 | judge: Tommy Hart 67½-64½ | judge: Jack McDonald 66½-65½ ~
California State Welterweight Title

1952-04-03 145 Oscar Reyes 147¾ 19-5-5
Sports Center, Tucson, Arizona, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Sonny Valdez | judge: Packy McFarland AZ | judge: Joe Cadomo ~

1952-02-29 Charley Salas 110-35-11
Tucson Garden, Tucson, Arizona, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Mike Quihuis 55-53 | judge: Emil Kahn 54-53 | judge: C.B. Sedillo 56-54 ~
Reported in the Tucson Daily Citizen, as Salas's first ever loss in Tucson.

1951-11-06 145 Phil Burton 145½ 41-20-6
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Charley Randolph 60-50 | judge: Dynamite Jackson 60½-49½ | judge: Reggie Gilmore 59-51 ~
Burton was knocked down for a no-count in the 10th round.

1951-07-31 147 Ernie Greer 143¼ 12-8-5
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 6 6
Greer was knocked down in the 3rd round for a two-count.

1951-06-05 151 Charley Green 158 9-10-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1951-03-27 151 Charley Green 157 6-9-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W KO 3 4

1951-02-06 146½ Charley Green 156 6-8-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W KO 2 4

1951-01-23 146 Jimmy Hays 146 11-3-3
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1950-12-15 147 Ray Acosta 148 14-14-6
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1950-11-28 144½ Jimmy Hays 148 9-2-3
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1950-10-31 144½ Russ Gilliam 152 2-4-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4

1950-10-09 148 Flash Gordon 149 43-38-13
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States W KO 2 4

1950-09-11 145½ Al Simmons 146 0-2-0
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States

[dagosd2000]

Ramon Fuentes

[kikibalt]

Great job on Ramon Fuentes Roger....

[Chuck1052]

Rick, if you lived in Westlake Village, I would think that you would remember the
Du-par's Restaurant in Thousand Oaks. According to an article in today's Ventura County Star, the restaurant closed down for good on last Friday.

There were two versions of the Du-par's Restaurant in Thousand Oaks, each in a different location. The first one was opened from 1961 to 1991. A few years later, the second version of the restaurant opened a few years later. I remember the first version a lot better than the second one.

- Chuck Johnston

[Randyman]

Special from John Bardelli

Several have sent me articles discussing the entry of Michael Baden, M.D., into the picture precipitating Arturo Gatti's body being exhumed and a second autopsy having been undertaken. The media is abuzz - Gatti's legion of fans lining up as though, somehow, sensing that a report is going to put Amanda Rodrigues away for life. There is a frenzy about the rabid name calling directed to Amanda Rodrigues which was brought on by the psychological concept of primacy when the Brazilian police prematurely stated that Amanda Rodrigues was responsible for the death of Arturo Gatti. Psychological primacy is the principal that what is first heard is most often believed and it becomes a irrefutable governing fact. Now, those exposed and believing have their hopes lifted by headlines which boldly declare and assert --- Baden Autopsy Does Not Rule Out Gatti Murder --- the headlines scream coast to coast and worldwide.

I was earlier alerted to Baden's being hired and sniffed it out for what it is. Regardless, make no mistake about it. Baden or no Baden, rule of primacy or no rule of primacy, Arturo Gatti committed suicide --- its that simple.

Now that pathologist Michael Baden, M.D., is involved - controversy is guaranteed - forever - and that controversy has an avowed purpose behind it. Baden was or is the chief forensic pathologist for the New York City Police Department. As far as I know, he is not conducting this examination at the expense of or on behalf of the citizens of the state of New York or for the New York City Police Department or for any other governmental entity. Most likely, he has been privately engaged and just who is footing the bill and the amount he is charging for his engagement is unknown at the present time. And why, might one ask, was he engaged at all?

There is a lot going on behind the scenes, legal maneuverings of a kind and nature which have not been, to my knowledge, disclosed anywhere ... either on line in cyber space or within any specific media coverage. When analyzed from the prospects of a civil litigant, it is apparent what is transpiring. At the outset, let us assume as one scenario, that Arturo Gatti left no Last Will and Testament. When one has no Last Will and Testament and that person dies, it is said that he/she dies "intestate." To die "intestate" simply means that the decedent left no Last Will and Testament. When that happens, his state of domicile or residence at the time of death, through statutory enactments, writes the Last Will and Testament for the decedent.

One of the arguments advanced by a Gatti family member, or one linked to Arturo Gatti through boxing ties, against the contention that Gatti committed suicide is that Gatti had millions of dollars in the bank and in investments. Ergo, we are supposed to believe that rich people don't commit suicide. That may be true and I assume that there is less of an incentive to take one's life when the accounts are filled. However, people commit suicide for multiple reasons --- rich or poor and for better and for worse. Regardless, let us assume that Gatti does have millions set aside. Who does that estate, i.e., those millions, pass to upon his death under the fact scenario of his having left no Will?

In New York and New Jersey, when a person dies without having left a Last Will and Testament, the intestate laws provide that the estate of the decedent passes (1) to the surviving spouse and, if no surviving spouse then to (2) surviving children, and if no spouse or children, then to (3) surviving parent(s), and if no spouse, children, or parents, then to (4) brothers and/or sisters (siblings), and beyond. At the forefront, note it is Amanda Rodrigues who stands first in line to inherit Arturo Gatti's estate and the Gatti family are in arms and vocal about that prospect..

If Gatti were to have died from natural causes or committed suicide, at first glance, Gatti's estate would pass to Amanda Rodrigues as Gatti's surviving spouse by operation of law. However, both New York and New Jersey have enacted "slayer statutes" which provide that a "slayer" cannot inherit from the estate of one slain nor be the beneficiary under a life insurance policy of the person so slain. Ergo, if it is established that Amanda Rodrigues is determined by a court proceeding to be "a slayer" as defined in the applicable statute, then she personally cannot inherit any portion of Gatti's estate either through the estate laws nor the insurance beneficiary laws. Consequently, one has to ask: Is there is a need to establish a "slayer" who meets the definition of Amanda Rodrigues or she will inherit the entirety of Gatti's estate and his life insurance proceeds if she is named as the beneficiary? If the Gatti family seek to prevent Amanda Rodrigues from becoming the sole beneficiary of Arturo Gatti's Estate, and she presently is in that position, most assuredly, if Gatti died intestate, one mechanism to prevent that from becoming a reality is to have her declared a "slayer" within the confines of applicable law. The answer to the posed question is, most assuredly, there is a need to have Amanda Rodrigues declared a "slayer."

I presume, in large measure, once Baden's report concludes that Gatti was murdered, the anti-thesis to one having committed suicide, then you will also see litigation simultaneously commenced as follows: (1) probate initiated where the administrator of Gatti's estate seeks to have Amanda Rodrigues declared a "slayer" thereby precluding her from inheriting any portion of Gatti's estate and (2) a custody action which seeks to deprive Amanda Rodrigues of custody of their son, Arturo, Jr., because as one of two surviving Arturo Gatti children, those children stand next in line to inherit once the Administrator can secure a court order which declares Amanda Rodrigues as a "slayer." Unless she challenges that finding, whoever has custody of Gatti's son will control at least 50% of his estate and the Gatti family, again, have been very is vocal that they intend to seek custody of Arturo, Jr.

I am sure that Gatti's family will do what it can do, as well, to preclude Gatti's daughter Sofia from inheriting her 50% of the estate. The Gatti family is at odds with Erika Rivera, a one time fiance of Arturo Gatti, the woman who Gatti referred to the public at large as "Satin's daughter," and worse, during their tumultuous relationship. From Ms. Rivera's perspective, their troubles grew in large measure because Arturo Gatti, though the acknowledged father of Sofia, did not want to pay support money to Ms. Rivera and she brought into play the Courts, much to Arturo Gatti's displeasure. However, it appears that Gatti's brother is on somewhat better terms with Erika than the rest of the Gatti family but when it all is cut, sliced, and examined, blood is thicker than water and whichever way the Gatti Family is drifting, one can be assured it will be with unanimity.

It is highly likely that Baden's engagement is no different than scenarios where unfortunate employees who are injured during the course of their employment. In the majority of instances when that happens, and a claim is thereafter made against the Department of Labor and Industries or Workers Compensation for any given state, the state puts the injured worked through a litany of medical examinations by doctors engaged as so-called "independent examiners" whereupon an unsuspecting worker, believing initially that a doctor would not lie about a worker's injuries and health, soon learns that the meaning of "independent" and "physician" are strange and twisted beyond all measure. Questions to be asked of individuals such as Michael Baden, M.D., and those "independent examiners" who, in reality, are hired guns, include: How much money do you make doing forensic examinations when hired by private parties during the course of the past 10 years and how many times did your report favor the party who hired you versus the adverse party and specific requests for written documentation in confirmation of the answer rendered must be sought as well.

Anyone subjected to the process, understands immediately the import of the message I seek to convey. As physicians, one would think they were honorable people engaged in the pursuit of truth and justice. Au contraire, as one suddenly learns at great expense and delay. These hired guns were engaged to create controversy and to force a settlement at the injured worker's overall expense. What the worker went through is being played out literally thousands of times a day in this country. I strongly suspect that it is being played out again through the engagement of Baden as well. And there is no intent to denigrate Michael Baden, M.D., as it may be that he has the best intentions of conducting an examination which is truly elevated to the concept of justice rather than for partisanship purposes. Who knows in this instance what his report will reveal? The proof is in the pudding.

Will Baden's report convince me otherwise as to what transpired in Brazil? I won't close my eyes to his conclusions and the report, in general, but it will not serve to change my analysis as to what transpired. It appears that the fight has just begun. This fight, however, pits the Gatti family against Amanda Rodrigues. This is not what Arturo Gatti would have wanted. This is not how Arturo Gatti wanted to be remembered.

[dagosd2000]

Great job on Ramon Fuentes Roger....

Thanks Frank
When I saw the news on Ramon Fuentes,it moved me. Here's the Mexican fighter who entertained,put on shows like so many of his countrymen did in the Southland. The Bolanoses,the Salases,Ortegas,Ortizes,a Baby Vasquez,a Carlos Chavez. These guys fought and fought until their time was over,and now it's fellas' like you Frank that wake us up to the fact that without them the word"Classic" wouldn't apply to the name of the thread.

[Randyman]

Ramon Fuentes

One of your best, Rog. The same with Dempsey! Oh hell, we're starting to sound redundant. I think we have used every superlative in describing your paintings, but it's all true! They are all great.

Randy

[Randyman]

Great job on Ramon Fuentes Roger....

Thanks Frank
When I saw the news on Ramon Fuentes,it moved me. Here's the Mexican fighter who entertained,put on shows like so many of his countrymen did in the Southland. The Bolanoses,the Salases,Ortegas,Ortizes,a Baby Vasquez,a Carlos Chavez. These guys fought and fought until their time was over,and now it's fellas' like you Frank that wake us up to the fact that without them the word"Classic" wouldn't apply to the name of the thread.

Amen to that!

[kikibalt]

Two more photos of Ramon Fuentes

[kikibalt]

Ramon Fuentes had a brother, Jesse Fuentes, that also fought, didn't have as long a career but, he was a main eventer back in the day, I'll post his record and a photo.

[dagosd2000]

Special from John Bardelli

Several have sent me articles discussing the entry of Michael Baden, M.D., into the picture precipitating Arturo Gatti's body being exhumed and a second autopsy having been undertaken. The media is abuzz - Gatti's legion of fans lining up as though, somehow, sensing that a report is going to put Amanda Rodrigues away for life. There is a frenzy about the rabid name calling directed to Amanda Rodrigues which was brought on by the psychological concept of primacy when the Brazilian police prematurely stated that Amanda Rodrigues was responsible for the death of Arturo Gatti. Psychological primacy is the principal that what is first heard is most often believed and it becomes a irrefutable governing fact. Now, those exposed and believing have their hopes lifted by headlines which boldly declare and assert --- Baden Autopsy Does Not Rule Out Gatti Murder --- the headlines scream coast to coast and worldwide.

I was earlier alerted to Baden's being hired and sniffed it out for what it is. Regardless, make no mistake about it. Baden or no Baden, rule of primacy or no rule of primacy, Arturo Gatti committed suicide --- its that simple.

Now that pathologist Michael Baden, M.D., is involved - controversy is guaranteed - forever - and that controversy has an avowed purpose behind it. Baden was or is the chief forensic pathologist for the New York City Police Department. As far as I know, he is not conducting this examination at the expense of or on behalf of the citizens of the state of New York or for the New York City Police Department or for any other governmental entity. Most likely, he has been privately engaged and just who is footing the bill and the amount he is charging for his engagement is unknown at the present time. And why, might one ask, was he engaged at all?

There is a lot going on behind the scenes, legal maneuverings of a kind and nature which have not been, to my knowledge, disclosed anywhere ... either on line in cyber space or within any specific media coverage. When analyzed from the prospects of a civil litigant, it is apparent what is transpiring. At the outset, let us assume as one scenario, that Arturo Gatti left no Last Will and Testament. When one has no Last Will and Testament and that person dies, it is said that he/she dies "intestate." To die "intestate" simply means that the decedent left no Last Will and Testament. When that happens, his state of domicile or residence at the time of death, through statutory enactments, writes the Last Will and Testament for the decedent.

One of the arguments advanced by a Gatti family member, or one linked to Arturo Gatti through boxing ties, against the contention that Gatti committed suicide is that Gatti had millions of dollars in the bank and in investments. Ergo, we are supposed to believe that rich people don't commit suicide. That may be true and I assume that there is less of an incentive to take one's life when the accounts are filled. However, people commit suicide for multiple reasons --- rich or poor and for better and for worse. Regardless, let us assume that Gatti does have millions set aside. Who does that estate, i.e., those millions, pass to upon his death under the fact scenario of his having left no Will?

In New York and New Jersey, when a person dies without having left a Last Will and Testament, the intestate laws provide that the estate of the decedent passes (1) to the surviving spouse and, if no surviving spouse then to (2) surviving children, and if no spouse or children, then to (3) surviving parent(s), and if no spouse, children, or parents, then to (4) brothers and/or sisters (siblings), and beyond. At the forefront, note it is Amanda Rodrigues who stands first in line to inherit Arturo Gatti's estate and the Gatti family are in arms and vocal about that prospect..

If Gatti were to have died from natural causes or committed suicide, at first glance, Gatti's estate would pass to Amanda Rodrigues as Gatti's surviving spouse by operation of law. However, both New York and New Jersey have enacted "slayer statutes" which provide that a "slayer" cannot inherit from the estate of one slain nor be the beneficiary under a life insurance policy of the person so slain. Ergo, if it is established that Amanda Rodrigues is determined by a court proceeding to be "a slayer" as defined in the applicable statute, then she personally cannot inherit any portion of Gatti's estate either through the estate laws nor the insurance beneficiary laws. Consequently, one has to ask: Is there is a need to establish a "slayer" who meets the definition of Amanda Rodrigues or she will inherit the entirety of Gatti's estate and his life insurance proceeds if she is named as the beneficiary? If the Gatti family seek to prevent Amanda Rodrigues from becoming the sole beneficiary of Arturo Gatti's Estate, and she presently is in that position, most assuredly, if Gatti died intestate, one mechanism to prevent that from becoming a reality is to have her declared a "slayer" within the confines of applicable law. The answer to the posed question is, most assuredly, there is a need to have Amanda Rodrigues declared a "slayer."

I presume, in large measure, once Baden's report concludes that Gatti was murdered, the anti-thesis to one having committed suicide, then you will also see litigation simultaneously commenced as follows: (1) probate initiated where the administrator of Gatti's estate seeks to have Amanda Rodrigues declared a "slayer" thereby precluding her from inheriting any portion of Gatti's estate and (2) a custody action which seeks to deprive Amanda Rodrigues of custody of their son, Arturo, Jr., because as one of two surviving Arturo Gatti children, those children stand next in line to inherit once the Administrator can secure a court order which declares Amanda Rodrigues as a "slayer." Unless she challenges that finding, whoever has custody of Gatti's son will control at least 50% of his estate and the Gatti family, again, have been very is vocal that they intend to seek custody of Arturo, Jr.

I am sure that Gatti's family will do what it can do, as well, to preclude Gatti's daughter Sofia from inheriting her 50% of the estate. The Gatti family is at odds with Erika Rivera, a one time fiance of Arturo Gatti, the woman who Gatti referred to the public at large as "Satin's daughter," and worse, during their tumultuous relationship. From Ms. Rivera's perspective, their troubles grew in large measure because Arturo Gatti, though the acknowledged father of Sofia, did not want to pay support money to Ms. Rivera and she brought into play the Courts, much to Arturo Gatti's displeasure. However, it appears that Gatti's brother is on somewhat better terms with Erika than the rest of the Gatti family but when it all is cut, sliced, and examined, blood is thicker than water and whichever way the Gatti Family is drifting, one can be assured it will be with unanimity.

It is highly likely that Baden's engagement is no different than scenarios where unfortunate employees who are injured during the course of their employment. In the majority of instances when that happens, and a claim is thereafter made against the Department of Labor and Industries or Workers Compensation for any given state, the state puts the injured worked through a litany of medical examinations by doctors engaged as so-called "independent examiners" whereupon an unsuspecting worker, believing initially that a doctor would not lie about a worker's injuries and health, soon learns that the meaning of "independent" and "physician" are strange and twisted beyond all measure. Questions to be asked of individuals such as Michael Baden, M.D., and those "independent examiners" who, in reality, are hired guns, include: How much money do you make doing forensic examinations when hired by private parties during the course of the past 10 years and how many times did your report favor the party who hired you versus the adverse party and specific requests for written documentation in confirmation of the answer rendered must be sought as well.

Anyone subjected to the process, understands immediately the import of the message I seek to convey. As physicians, one would think they were honorable people engaged in the pursuit of truth and justice. Au contraire, as one suddenly learns at great expense and delay. These hired guns were engaged to create controversy and to force a settlement at the injured worker's overall expense. What the worker went through is being played out literally thousands of times a day in this country. I strongly suspect that it is being played out again through the engagement of Baden as well. And there is no intent to denigrate Michael Baden, M.D., as it may be that he has the best intentions of conducting an examination which is truly elevated to the concept of justice rather than for partisanship purposes. Who knows in this instance what his report will reveal? The proof is in the pudding.

Will Baden's report convince me otherwise as to what transpired in Brazil? I won't close my eyes to his conclusions and the report, in general, but it will not serve to change my analysis as to what transpired. It appears that the fight has just begun. This fight, however, pits the Gatti family against Amanda Rodrigues. This is not what Arturo Gatti would have wanted. This is not how Arturo Gatti wanted to be remembered.

John
I think it's more like the Gatti family against the country of Brazil.Whatever happened that tragic night ,Brazil is going to take the side of Amanda Rodrigues. They are not going to sell her out to a foreigner(Gatti's family and lawyer). They'll protect her. The strip club,the arguments,the drunkeness,and the bizarre crime scene is something that Brazil is going to look at like Gatti was the instigator. An ugly scene. An ugly relationship. It reminds me of Americans who go to Mexico getting involved with drug cartels. You read about them floating inside oil drums in the Pacific Ocean. Not much cooperation from the Mexican authorities. Something like that applies with Gatti's death. Brazil won't want anyone north of the border dictating to them of how they conduct the case. They'll protect their own on this, and the more the Gatti's and the lawyer push,Brazil will push back harder.

Take care pal. Rog.

[Randyman]

On last nights fights:
On one hand I don't think Nate Campbell wanted to keep fighting, Tim Bradley was doing a pretty good job on him and the (accidental) headbutt made it easy , on the other hand it should have went to the scorecards. Still Campbell came across as a whiner. Don King proved what almost all of us here think of him with his loudmouth antics. Bradley handled himself well despite the "Controversy"

I was surprised by Junior Witter quitting the way he did. I thought Devon handled himself with class during the interview. It was pretty emotional for him. His father passed away recently.

Randy

[dagosd2000]

Ramon Fuentes had a brother, Jesse Fuentes, that also fought, didn't have as long a career but, he was a main eventer back in the day, I'll post his record and a photo.

You'll understand Frank. My wife's in Michoacan. I look at the photos of Fuentes and I wish I was there. The Meek Shall Inherit The Earth. Thinking of the Ramon Fuenteses assures me of that.

[kikibalt]

Jesse Fuentes



birth date 1926-03-04
division middleweight
nationality United States
residence Los Angeles, California, United States
birth name Jesse Moody
won 15 (KO 4) + lost 7 (KO 3) + drawn 0 = 22
rounds boxed 172 : KO% 18.18

1954-06-04 163 Harvey Taylor 163 11-2-1
Wilmington Bowl, Wilmington, California, United States L PTS 10 10

1954-04-16 162 Eddie Sims 162 14-13-1
Wilmington Bowl, Wilmington, California, United States W PTS 10 10
~ referee: Tommy Hart 57-53 ~

1954-04-01 Don Grant 11-0-0
Auditorio Municipal, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico L KO 5 10

1954-03-09 162 Reno Abellira 158¼ 13-2-0
Civic Auditorium, Honolulu, Hawaii, United States L UD 10 10

1954-02-23 158 Spider Webb 158 10-1-0
Madison Square Garden, Phoenix, Arizona, United States L TKO 2 10

1954-02-09 162½ Russ Gilliam 157½ 25-49-8
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 6 6

1953-12-29 163 Don Grant 165½ 9-0-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L TKO 5 10
~ time: 2:50 | referee: Mushy Callahan ~
Fuentes was knocked down once in the 2nd and 5th round.

1953-11-17 160 Elmer Beltz 154 28-8-3
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 8 10
~ time: 0:58 | referee: Mushy Callahan ~
Beltz was knocked down once in the 8th prior to the stoppage.

1953-09-14 160½ Sammy Saunders 158 13-6-6
Arena, South Gate, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Reggie Gilmore 56½-53½ | judge: Mushy Callahan 56½-53½ | judge: Lee Grossman 57-53 ~

1953-07-21 159 Billy Corbett 161½ 55-17-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Mushy Callahan 59-51 | judge: Joe Stone 58-52 | judge: Jimmy Wilson 57-53 ~

1953-06-17 Cisco Saenz 74-27-13
Bull Ring, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico W UD 10 10
Border Middleweight Title

1953-05-29 Eusebio Hernandez 36-17-3
Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico W PTS 10 10

1953-05-15 Nick Moran 33-30-7
Auditorio Municipal, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico W SD 10 10
~ referee: Bobby Fernandez 65-45 | judge: Juan Bilbao 107-83 | judge: Alfredo Holguin 98-102 ~

1953-03-27 Eusebio Hernandez 36-16-3
Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico W PTS 10 10

1953-03-13 159 Jimmy Martinez 155 45-7-5
Madison Square Garden, Phoenix, Arizona, United States L SD 10 10

1953-02-17 162½ Joe Moran 164¾ 10-1-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 5 10
~ time: 1:32 | referee: Joe Stone ~

1953-01-27 160 Jimmy Martinez 159 44-6-5
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Abe Roth 62-48 | judge: Dynamite Jackson 61-49 | judge: Joe Stone 61-49 ~
Martinez was knocked down for a five-count in the 1st round.

1952-12-23 158 Nick Moran 156 33-28-7
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 5 10
~ time: 2:47 | referee: Frankie Van ~
Fuentes, fifth pro fight, according to the Los Angeles Times

1952-11-04 158½ Willie Vaughn 158½ 12-5-5
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Frankie Van 58½-51½ | judge: Lee Grossman 56½-53½ | judge: Mushy Callahan 59-51 ~

1952-10-28 162½ Spencer Coleman 157 13-17-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W KO 4 6
Coleman was knocked down once in the 1st and 4th round, Fuentes was knocked down in the 2nd round.

1952-09-15 Esau Ferdinand 30-7-8
Winterland Arena, San Francisco, California, United States L PTS 6 6

1951-11-19 Esau Ferdinand 28-6-7
Winterland Arena, San Francisco, California, United States W PTS 6 6

[Randyman]

Ramon Fuentes

One of your best, Rog. The same with Dempsey! Oh hell, we're starting to sound redundant. I think we have used every superlative in describing your paintings, but it's all true! They are all great.

My condolences to the family and friends of Ramon Fuentes. R.I.P.
(How many more times are we going to say that this year?)

Randy