Amir Khan Vs John Murray

coneye
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8610
Joined: 21 Jun 2004, 06:00

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by coneye »

Dioufy wrote:Pacquiao takes him out early. Bradley's a very interesting fight, but it's unfair to put Khan in with him just yet. And Hatton's coming off a loss, so Khan could well take him, but with the Sports Network/Hatton Promotions divide. I don't think that will ever happen.
Bradley is interesting because he would hammer Khan . Hatton is interesting because , he's been beat but not by the likes of Khan ,

But how anyone can say it would be unfair to put Khan in with Bradley, or any one else for that matter is beyond me . Because has far has i know KHAN is supposed to be a WORLD CHAMPION.
mickey1975
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 23091
Joined: 02 Mar 2009, 12:54

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by mickey1975 »

Chambers2 wrote:
Lawton2009 wrote:Will this fight ever happen?
Does Murray deserve a title shot?
Murray is still unbeaten?
Lets hope so, but going on Warren & Hennessys history of putting their top fighters in against each other I'm not too hopeful, although Cleverly Vs McIntosh does give me some hope.

There are probably mre deserving boxers for a title shot than Murray, but if he can land the European title he's in prime position IMO.

Yes he is.

If the fight were to happen pre-Roach I'd have the fight down as a 50-50 or 60-40 Khan, but Amirs come on leeps and bounds since his move to LA and I'd strongly fancy Amir to take Murray apart and stop him
fwank put cleverly in with mcintosh because he was 99% sure he would win.why not let him go and spoil meaty micks night and get 25% bonus in the process.same with elcock-macklin.any genuine 50-50 fights,this scenario will be different
bigjack
Heavyweight
Heavyweight

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by bigjack »

Chambers2 wrote:
Lawton2009 wrote:Will this fight ever happen?
Does Murray deserve a title shot?
Murray is still unbeaten?
Lets hope so, but going on Warren & Hennessys history of putting their top fighters in against each other I'm not too hopeful, although Cleverly Vs McIntosh does give me some hope.

There are probably mre deserving boxers for a title shot than Murray, but if he can land the European title he's in prime position IMO.

Yes he is.

If the fight were to happen pre-Roach I'd have the fight down as a 50-50 or 60-40 Khan, but Amirs come on leeps and bounds since his move to LA and I'd strongly fancy Amir to take Murray apart and stop him
Well to be honest khan didn't really deserve his title shot and murray is unbeaten and the former british champ,which is more than khan was when he got his chance.
Dioufy
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 7351
Joined: 16 Sep 2006, 23:09

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by Dioufy »

coneye wrote:
Dioufy wrote:Pacquiao takes him out early. Bradley's a very interesting fight, but it's unfair to put Khan in with him just yet. And Hatton's coming off a loss, so Khan could well take him, but with the Sports Network/Hatton Promotions divide. I don't think that will ever happen.
Bradley is interesting because he would hammer Khan . Hatton is interesting because , he's been beat but not by the likes of Khan ,

But how anyone can say it would be unfair to put Khan in with Bradley, or any one else for that matter is beyond me . Because has far has i know KHAN is supposed to be a WORLD CHAMPION.
AT THE MOMENT - because Khan is a NEW, YOUNG, INEXPERIENCED champion and Bradley is now a SEASONED, MORE EXPERIENCED champion. Give Khan at least someone like Salita, not one of the beasts of the division.

Take Andre Berto for example.
coneye
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8610
Joined: 21 Jun 2004, 06:00

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by coneye »

Dioufy wrote:
coneye wrote:
Dioufy wrote:Pacquiao takes him out early. Bradley's a very interesting fight, but it's unfair to put Khan in with him just yet. And Hatton's coming off a loss, so Khan could well take him, but with the Sports Network/Hatton Promotions divide. I don't think that will ever happen.
Bradley is interesting because he would hammer Khan . Hatton is interesting because , he's been beat but not by the likes of Khan ,

But how anyone can say it would be unfair to put Khan in with Bradley, or any one else for that matter is beyond me . Because has far has i know KHAN is supposed to be a WORLD CHAMPION.
AT THE MOMENT - because Khan is a NEW, YOUNG, INEXPERIENCED champion and Bradley is now a SEASONED, MORE EXPERIENCED champion. Give Khan at least someone like Salita, not one of the beasts of the division.

Take Andre Berto for example.

Sorry but I just cannot understand that logic , the guy is a PPV fighter he gets paid lots off money , fans get CHARGED LOTS to see him , he is supposed to be a WORLD CHAMP , and some say Bradley is to seasoned, give us a break . Lets get back to when the champ was the champ, The time for nursing him , bringing him along slow , ect ect , all went out the window when he WON A WORLD TITLE
Dioufy
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 7351
Joined: 16 Sep 2006, 23:09

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by Dioufy »

Name one British fighter that took on the best in the division in his first defence when he has under 25 fights, and age? And remember, the guy is question doesn't have the best chin. To me, let the guy take care of his mandatory, Salita, then perhaps Maidana, then maybe Bradley. Build the fight, don't put them in at the first opportunity.
Wales
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 7854
Joined: 23 Mar 2004, 14:05

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by Wales »

How many did froch have when he fought Taylor?
Dioufy
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 7351
Joined: 16 Sep 2006, 23:09

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by Dioufy »

25, but I said under 25 years of age too. And be fair, Taylor was not one of the best at super middleweight.
leeharding
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 589
Joined: 03 Jan 2009, 16:18

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by leeharding »

There are probably mre deserving boxers for a title shot than Murray, but if he can land the European title he's in prime position IMO.

dont see how this is khan was soooooooooooo not deserving to get a crack at kotelnik but it happend so y isnt murrey?????????
hitman_hatton1
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 6150
Joined: 26 Nov 2003, 20:57

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by hitman_hatton1 »

only way i could see it happening is if murray signed with warren and the fight was built up.

no way will warren do a deal with hennessy to make it. :shame:
hitman_hatton1
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 6150
Joined: 26 Nov 2003, 20:57

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by hitman_hatton1 »

leeharding wrote:There are probably mre deserving boxers for a title shot than Murray, but if he can land the European title he's in prime position IMO.

dont see how this is khan was soooooooooooo not deserving to get a crack at kotelnik but it happend so y isnt murrey?????????
he'd need to step up to 140 for a start.

he's have to be prepared to leave hennessy and sign with warren.

even then i wouldn't guarantee it happening. :roll:
Autobarn
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 16093
Joined: 05 Jul 2005, 13:01

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by Autobarn »

I rate John Murray. I feel he is to strength and pressure fighting, what Khan is to using speed and mobility to secure safe poits victory.

Murray just won't be on Khan's radar. Khan has been given the world title chance, and he won it. He has a world title up at light welter, so why should he fight a British lightweight? many ppl might ask.

Because of his medal, Khan gets opportunities. Khan can get humiliated, he can get the shhit beaten out of him. And in his next fight he'll be on PPV. If John Murray got knocked out, most ppl would be closing the book on his career, sayiong he "never was any good", as is the pattern on these boards.

Murray is good, but his career has been allowed to plod a bit. Thankfully he has stopped 3 guys ranked in the EBU top 10 rankings. Natural fight is for Murray to face Mezaache, and get the EBU title. Mezaache beat the #1 guy in the rankings Kudriavtsev. That means there's no one in the way of Murray getting a title shot. Khan's got to grow into his belt, and Murray needs to be moved up to stage 2 (i.e. European honours). Not sure where and why their paths will cross. Shame Murray wasn't the guy to "expose" Khan in the pre-Prescott days, but that's in the past now.

If Murray succeeds at Euro level, I'm sure his ppl won't want him to get stuck at one level. So how about the guy Vazquez, who beat Prescott? how about Acosta, who beat Antillon? those guys can't be too expensive, can they.
ALI
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 2667
Joined: 27 Nov 2003, 14:10

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by ALI »

boxingchat wrote:People on here criticised the amount of time Hatton 'trod-water' with the WBU title before getting a real title shot (He wouldn't have beaten Tszyu earlier would he?)


Promoting and Managing is a skill, anyone can secure a shot for a fighter, but the knack is doing it at the right time when all the boxes are ticked and the fighter has the best chance of winning.

If a boxer has gotten himself into a position where he is eligible to fight for a world title, and he wants the shot, his promoter should do all he can to make it happen for him. I pressume you disagree with that.
Autobarn
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 16093
Joined: 05 Jul 2005, 13:01

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by Autobarn »

boxingchat wrote:He won the Commonwealth title and defended it against the English Champion. The Board wouldn't allow it for the English as well as, at the time, they were only allowed as 10 round fights.

The so called traditional route of British, Commonweath and European is okay in the ideal world but ask any fighter if they wouldn't sacrifice any of these for a shot at or indeed winning a world title. Khan has a good Promoter guiding him so if he was fast tracked, possibly he was, it worked didn't it?

People on here criticised the amount of time Hatton 'trod-water' with the WBU title before getting a real title shot (He wouldn't have beaten Tszyu earlier would he?) and the amount of time it took Calzaghe to rise to the top (Lacy) after years as WBO champion. Now when a young guy gets let of the leash early, especially months after a devastating setback, the critiscism is still forthcoming.

History tells us that many fighters following the traditional route of Area-British-Commonwealth-European are usually too old or shop-worn by the time the world title comes along. I grant you that Froch and Lennox (Both won vacant titles remember) maybe an exception to the rule, but in the main it usually transpires that when the fighter does get his chance, usually as the mandatory, then there will be an exceptional fighter as the champion and they will end up fighting away from home and usually getting beaten.

Promoting and Managing is a skill, anyone can secure a shot for a fighter, but the knack is doing it at the right time when all the boxes are ticked and the fighter has the best chance of winning.

Kotelnik, Kessler, Tszyu, McCall and even Winky Wright were enticed by big purses to face men Warren thought could beat them at that moment in time, he hasnt made many mistakes in this respect.
i actually agree here. the rival champs were too dangerous, too tricky or lacking reward. sharmbah was southpaw, and harris would only fight in detroit. and a younger tszyu was too much. it was good work how hatton was kept busy v IBF ranked fighters (no joke stewart, oliveria). definitely, hatton could not have fought tszyu earlier. it seems like the move was made, when ricky could win it, where ricky could win it.

given that tszyu was a dominant champion, it must have been important to tread water - for a long time. it seems this was the blessing and the curse. ricky won the belt, added to his fame and his fortune. but frankly wasn't much good after getting the belt.

i suppose the honourable way would have been to push ricky earlier and get him knocked out by tszyu. this would have shown a more honest assessment of his abilities. but not the ideal way to have a career.

khan is proven world class in 20 somethig fights, at a young age. no complaints. maybe he can become a bit more exciting, though, and find superstardom!
Autobarn
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 16093
Joined: 05 Jul 2005, 13:01

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by Autobarn »

oo-er. hope murray gets the EBU title shot.

romanov's world title opportunity seems to have been given to someone else due to his visa problems heading into vacant IBF title fight. you never know, he's in limbo, might get desperate, get back in european mix. he can't just go without fights, can he?
ALI
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 2667
Joined: 27 Nov 2003, 14:10

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by ALI »

Autobarn wrote:
boxingchat wrote:People on here criticised the amount of time Hatton 'trod-water' with the WBU title before getting a real title shot (He wouldn't have beaten Tszyu earlier would he?) and the amount of time it took Calzaghe to rise to the top (Lacy) after years as WBO champion. Now when a young guy gets let of the leash early, especially months after a devastating setback, the critiscism is still forthcoming.

History tells us that many fighters following the traditional route of Area-British-Commonwealth-European are usually too old or shop-worn by the time the world title comes along. I grant you that Froch and Lennox (Both won vacant titles remember) maybe an exception to the rule, but in the main it usually transpires that when the fighter does get his chance, usually as the mandatory, then there will be an exceptional fighter as the champion and they will end up fighting away from home and usually getting beaten.

Promoting and Managing is a skill, anyone can secure a shot for a fighter, but the knack is doing it at the right time when all the boxes are ticked and the fighter has the best chance of winning.

Kotelnik, Kessler, Tszyu, McCall and even Winky Wright were enticed by big purses to face men Warren thought could beat them at that moment in time, he hasnt made many mistakes in this respect.
i actually agree here. the rival champs were too dangerous, too tricky or lacking reward. sharmbah was southpaw, and harris would only fight in detroit. and a younger tszyu was too much. it was good work how hatton was kept busy v IBF ranked fighters (no joke stewart, oliveria). definitely, hatton could not have fought tszyu earlier. it seems like the move was made, when ricky could win it, where ricky could win it.

given that tszyu was a dominant champion, it must have been important to tread water - for a long time. it seems this was the blessing and the curse. ricky won the belt, added to his fame and his fortune. but frankly wasn't much good after getting the belt.

i suppose the honourable way would have been to push ricky earlier and get him knocked out by tszyu. this would have shown a more honest assessment of his abilities. but not the ideal way to have a career.

khan is proven world class in 20 somethig fights, at a young age. no complaints. maybe he can become a bit more exciting, though, and find superstardom!
I disagree, Hatton could easily have fought Tyszu around the same time he fought Tackie. Of course, its very easy to argue to the controrary as the past is now set in stone and favours the oposite view.

Although Hatton went on to win another 4 world titles after the Tyszu fight, i'd point out that it was only 18 months after Tyszu that he started to show signs of deterioration (Urango fight). I dont think he shined against the shot Castillo, that performance was very over rated, he was sh*t against Mayweather and Luzcano and i am sure a younger, fresher Hatton would have faired much better. Had he fought, and beaten Tyszu in late 2003, and not summer 2005, perhaps his career at the top could have been sustained for longer. Perhaps he could have achieved even more than he actually did, and looked better doing it? Perhaps if he had been let loose earlier he could have caught Mayweather at 140lbs, or even ruled the 140 division for longer than he did?
Lenny
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3656
Joined: 27 Nov 2003, 05:31

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by Lenny »

Murray should concentrate on building himself up and imo getting away from Mick. It's probably only a matter of time before he is on his way to Hatton's promotional company and hopefully we can see him in some good Friday fight nights against the likes of Romanov. Mick has messed around, spent too much time on Thaxton and waited so long to put them in against each other that now Thaxton has lost 2 on the trot, the interest has plummeted.

Regarding Hatton, the build up to Tszyu was okay but I would have loved to have seen him squeeze in fights against Mitchell, Corely and especially Witter whilst the Pendleton, Stewart and Vilches fights were happening (more evidence that Hatton had always been steered clear of slick fighters until they threw him in with Mayweather). The regular fights at the MEN were great though and enabled Hatton to build up a massive fan base
Walker Smith Jr.
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Mar 2008, 13:36

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by Walker Smith Jr. »

Not wanting to upset the masses but although John Murray is a good fighter Khan is on complete different level IMO. May have been a decent fight 2 years ago but cant see any way this fight can happen now. If it did ever happen Khan would probably win every round before stopping him in 6.
Autobarn
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 16093
Joined: 05 Jul 2005, 13:01

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by Autobarn »

Lenny wrote:Murray should concentrate on building himself up and imo getting away from Mick. It's probably only a matter of time before he is on his way to Hatton's promotional company and hopefully we can see him in some good Friday fight nights against the likes of Romanov. Mick has messed around, spent too much time on Thaxton and waited so long to put them in against each other that now Thaxton has lost 2 on the trot, the interest has plummeted.

Regarding Hatton, the build up to Tszyu was okay but I would have loved to have seen him squeeze in fights against Mitchell, Corely and especially Witter whilst the Pendleton, Stewart and Vilches fights were happening (more evidence that Hatton had always been steered clear of slick fighters until they threw him in with Mayweather). The regular fights at the MEN were great though and enabled Hatton to build up a massive fan base
after Thaxton-Mezaache, did Mick say he had an option on Mezaache?

If so he could deliver Mezaache and get Murray a European title.

Absolutely, only person that Murray-Thaxton suits is Thaxton.
Autobarn
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 16093
Joined: 05 Jul 2005, 13:01

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by Autobarn »

Walker Smith Jr. wrote:Not wanting to upset the masses but although John Murray is a good fighter Khan is on complete different level IMO. May have been a decent fight 2 years ago but cant see any way this fight can happen now. If it did ever happen Khan would probably win every round before stopping him in 6.
Murray's as good at solid pro style pressure as Khan is at running and flurrying amateur style. It's whether or not Murray's style can catch up with Khan and slow him down.

Different level in that Khan has been given world title opportunity whereas Murray may not have yet left British level behind. Can't see your stopagge theory as Khan just hits gloves, really.

I think Murray has a chance, but that he's just not on Khan's radar. Khan's weight, Khan's world title, etc. I believe in seeing Murray get opportunities before his chances vs Khan are judged. For instance a European title fight would be a good start. And if successful, build things up: Vazquez (who outboxed Prescott), Acosta (who stopped Antillon), Romanov (unable to land world title shot despite being ranked).

Reckon Murray would have been the man to knock the flawed Khan out, last year. Right now I judt can't see it happening
jamesmcdonnell
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 45235
Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

ALI wrote:
Autobarn wrote:
boxingchat wrote:People on here criticised the amount of time Hatton 'trod-water' with the WBU title before getting a real title shot (He wouldn't have beaten Tszyu earlier would he?) and the amount of time it took Calzaghe to rise to the top (Lacy) after years as WBO champion. Now when a young guy gets let of the leash early, especially months after a devastating setback, the critiscism is still forthcoming.

History tells us that many fighters following the traditional route of Area-British-Commonwealth-European are usually too old or shop-worn by the time the world title comes along. I grant you that Froch and Lennox (Both won vacant titles remember) maybe an exception to the rule, but in the main it usually transpires that when the fighter does get his chance, usually as the mandatory, then there will be an exceptional fighter as the champion and they will end up fighting away from home and usually getting beaten.

Promoting and Managing is a skill, anyone can secure a shot for a fighter, but the knack is doing it at the right time when all the boxes are ticked and the fighter has the best chance of winning.

Kotelnik, Kessler, Tszyu, McCall and even Winky Wright were enticed by big purses to face men Warren thought could beat them at that moment in time, he hasnt made many mistakes in this respect.
i actually agree here. the rival champs were too dangerous, too tricky or lacking reward. sharmbah was southpaw, and harris would only fight in detroit. and a younger tszyu was too much. it was good work how hatton was kept busy v IBF ranked fighters (no joke stewart, oliveria). definitely, hatton could not have fought tszyu earlier. it seems like the move was made, when ricky could win it, where ricky could win it.

given that tszyu was a dominant champion, it must have been important to tread water - for a long time. it seems this was the blessing and the curse. ricky won the belt, added to his fame and his fortune. but frankly wasn't much good after getting the belt.

i suppose the honourable way would have been to push ricky earlier and get him knocked out by tszyu. this would have shown a more honest assessment of his abilities. but not the ideal way to have a career.

khan is proven world class in 20 somethig fights, at a young age. no complaints. maybe he can become a bit more exciting, though, and find superstardom!
I disagree, Hatton could easily have fought Tyszu around the same time he fought Tackie. Of course, its very easy to argue to the controrary as the past is now set in stone and favours the oposite view.

Although Hatton went on to win another 4 world titles after the Tyszu fight, i'd point out that it was only 18 months after Tyszu that he started to show signs of deterioration (Urango fight). I dont think he shined against the shot Castillo, that performance was very over rated, he was sh*t against Mayweather and Luzcano and i am sure a younger, fresher Hatton would have faired much better. Had he fought, and beaten Tyszu in late 2003, and not summer 2005, perhaps his career at the top could have been sustained for longer. Perhaps he could have achieved even more than he actually did, and looked better doing it? Perhaps if he had been let loose earlier he could have caught Mayweather at 140lbs, or even ruled the 140 division for longer than he did?

In order to get a fight with Tszyu, there had to be enough money on the table to offer Tszyu, perhaps there wasn't enough money in the fight in 2003, after which Tszyu was out with injury for quite some time.
alexpaterson
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 4310
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 11:22

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by alexpaterson »

Murray has to prove himself at Euro/World level 1st maybe by fighting Maazache, Romonov, Diaz or Casamoyar to prove he is a world level fighter
hitman_hatton1
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 6150
Joined: 26 Nov 2003, 20:57

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by hitman_hatton1 »

alexpaterson wrote:Murray has to prove himself at Euro/World level 1st maybe by fighting Maazache, Romonov, Diaz or Casamoyar to prove he is a world level fighter
what's happening with romanov's world title shot? :confused:
banjo
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 26448
Joined: 20 Nov 2007, 03:17

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by banjo »

hitman_hatton1 wrote:
alexpaterson wrote:Murray has to prove himself at Euro/World level 1st maybe by fighting Maazache, Romonov, Diaz or Casamoyar to prove he is a world level fighter
what's happening with romanov's world title shot? :confused:
He had an IBF fight scheduled but I believe Visa problems have got in the way and it's now off

The title will now be contested by Joan Guzman and Ali Funeka
liamlion
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1956
Joined: 06 Jan 2005, 09:56

Re: Amir Khan Vs John Murray

Post by liamlion »

boxingchat wrote: History tells us that many fighters following the traditional route of Area-British-Commonwealth-European are usually too old or shop-worn by the time the world title comes along. I grant you that Froch and Lennox (Both won vacant titles remember) maybe an exception to the rule, but in the main it usually transpires that when the fighter does get his chance, usually as the mandatory, then there will be an exceptional fighter as the champion and they will end up fighting away from home and usually getting beaten.
The British, Commonwealth and European path is the only route to take for a fighter!!

It is a route that invariably leads to the WBC title, which more often than not has the top fighter in the division as their champion. If you cant beat the man then youre not really the proper world champion regardless of the fact that you can pick up other 'world' title belts much more easily.

I disagree that the fighter taking this route is usually too old or shop-worn by the time they get a world title shot... I would argue that the stiff challenges that a fighter usually gets by winning and defending the British & European titles prepares him as much as possible for a genuine world title shot. Its rare that in getting a shot at the WBC title a fighter hasnt already been in a position where he has had a real 50-50 fight against another top international contender. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of the other world organisations, particularly the WBO.

But I do accept that taking this route is more time consuming and in instances has led certain fighters to long periods of inactivity as they have tried to secure a shot at the title having hung onto their mandatory position for so long (e.g. Robert McCracken).

However when a fighter achieves world title glory via this route he has invariably beat the divisions topman and his name goes down in history as having accomplished a truly great achievement, ala Lloyd Honeyghan. Success via this route almost certainly guarantees credibility and kudos... the same cannot be said of achieveing glory via the other routes (e.g. WBU/WBO etc). But admittedly, attempting to secure credibilty and kudo isnt, unfortunately, always the most lucrative way to earn a living in today's game - which is a real shame. Its for this reason alone that I hope Carl Froch, who is a real rarity in modern-day British boxing makes an absolute killing in the next few years.
Post Reply