Junior Witter/Devon Alexander

[lurkyshaka]

Er because Witter had already left Warren perhaps

And lest face it, if that clause didn't exist then Warren surely would have fired that bullet a long time ago in his several year hate campaign against the Hatton's.

I will actually put you right on the situation as your speculation is ridiculous and so way off the mark.

Have a look at this article given by Ricky Hatton to the MEN in March 2006, there was never actually any clause inserted into Hatton's contract for a fight with Witter to be made. The reason for the non-inclusion of the clause is given (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... itter.html):

“And at one time, the Hitman was so angered by the Bradford man's jibes that he insisted then-promoter allegedly should insert a clause in his contract to ensure a fight with Witter.

But Warren managed to persuade Hatton that he had bigger fish to fry, and that Witter was simply trying to goad him into a lucrative pay-day.”:

Hatton wasn't with HBO then silly

I think you'll find that Hatton absolutely was with HBO when he fought Juan Lazcano silly.

Just for the record, in the same article (dated March 2006) when at the time Hatton was already signed with HBO he said:

"If Witter wins the WBC I will definitely fight him, because he will have something I want."

Clearly Hatton never thought that HBO would put a block on the fight. The simple reality is that HBO werent the problem. Lets face it Hatton and Warren are both to blame for not wanting the fight with Witter. Hatton has literally used about 5 different reasons at many different points to justify not fighting Witter.

If Hatton had ever wanted the fight with Witter it would have happened - its that simple!

You weren't talking about the time of the Lazcano fight though......"Eamonn Magee, Juan Lazcano, Stephen Smith, Joe Hutchinson, Aldo Rios, Dennis Pedersen, Ray Oliveria " were the fighters you were talking about. And at that time Hatton wasn't on HBO. A good effort at twisting, but not quite good enough. You'll have to do better than that.

Hatton of course was on HBO when he fought Lazcano, but he took on Lazcano straight after the Mayweather fight. It'd have been sheer lunacy for Hatton to walk straight into a Witter fight after coming off a heavy KO loss.

You're correct Hatton was never really interested in fighting Witter, the reason being Witter brought no money and he wasn't highly thought of on the world scene thanks largely to the tainted view folk had of him after the Judah fight. Witter was always looked upon as a bit of a clown after that. Though imo that performance was totally excusable as he came in on a weeks notice and was a novice, fact remains America was never impressed by Junior. A win over Junior would have silenced folk like you, but it'd have garnered Hatton relatively small change(tho Junior a career high) and he'd have received scant credit on the world scene.

The only time Witter started to make slight inroads into the general perception of him in the States, was after he'd battered Harris. If he'd continued in that kind of form then HBO would have had to sit up and take notice of him with a view to a possible Hatton fight.....but of course Junior then went and lost his title and with it all momentum. He has only himself to blame for that, as imo he could and should have beaten Bradley.

You talk of Hatton being fearful of Witter and that frankly is b*llocks.....Junior again proved he's his own worst enemy with his display at the weekend. With fights against Khan and Hatton being mooted once again, he went and turned in a pathetic performance.
Devon Alexander is no great shakes, but Witter made him look good. Junior p*ss balled around doing a bit of this and a bit of that, but he stuck at nothing and took an embarrassing kicking until quitting. He showed no consistency and ultimately no heart. It doesn't please me to say that as i was sincerely hoping he'd do the business and prove the American's wrong.

The article you refer to trying to prove the Witter clause may have not existed, if nothing else proves that Hatton at that time was p*ssed off and wanted to shut Junior up.......a bit of a difference from your jibber jabber of him being scared of Junior.

[liamlion]

You weren't talking about the time of the Lazcano fight though......"Eamonn Magee, Juan Lazcano, Stephen Smith, Joe Hutchinson, Aldo Rios, Dennis Pedersen, Ray Oliveria " were the fighters you were talking about. And at that time Hatton wasn't on HBO.

I actually wasnt talking about any specific period of time!!! I was simply picking a hand-full of Hatton opponents who incidently brought no titles, no worldwide reputation, no money and no fans to their respective fights with Hatton.

You're correct Hatton was never really interested in fighting Witter, the reason being Witter brought no money and he wasn't highly thought of on the world scene thanks largely to the tainted view folk had of him after the Judah fight.

Well there's another two reasons nicely thrown-in why Hatton apparently was 'justified' in ducking Witter!! Anymore while youre there?? A bit of a belt and braces sort of approach, isnt it??

But the problem is you see, is that when you or Hatton give excuses such as 'Witter was not a world name' or 'brought no money to the fight' any credibility in respect of the validity of those reasons is lost when Hatton then contradicts those very reasons and decides to fight the likes of Carlos Maussa, Juan Urango, Juan Lacano, Carlos Vilches and Ray Oliveria etc, etc. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, surely?

Is it not enough that Witter is a genuine boxing challenge and has stood in Hatton’s way as the best light-welterweight in Britain?? A Hatton-Witter fight would have made Hatton an absolute packet, however its clear that Hatton didn’t really fancy the job and it appears that the reason for this could well be the fact that Hatton wasn’t confident in beating Witter... there's simply no other rationale because ever excuse given by Hatton for not fighting Witter has been contradicted by Hatton himself in terms of his selection of other opponents.

A win over Junior would have silenced folk like you, but it'd have garnered Hatton relatively small change(tho Junior a career high) and he'd have received scant credit on the world scene.

It would have got the monkey off Hatton’s back and given him the legitimate title of Britain best light-welterweight. And for the record, there are a lot of folk like me who wanted to see the fight! Ever heard of giving the public what they want??

You talk of Hatton being fearful of Witter and that frankly is b*llocks.....

Is it, really?? The one thing Hatton can say when he gets beat by the likes of Pacman and Mayweather is that they are the best p4p fighters, which at least gives him some credibility. But what possible excuse could he have for losing to Witter??

The article you refer to trying to prove the Witter clause may have not existed, if nothing else proves that Hatton at that time was p*ssed off and wanted to shut Junior up.......a bit of a difference from your jibber jabber of him being scared of Junior.

But the point being… Hatton didn’t shut Witter’s mouth though, did he?? Actions speak louder than words.

If Hatton had wanted the fight with Witter, it would have happened - he wasnt the slave of HBO!!

[J]

dear god not this same OLD discussion that lost relevance some 5 years ago.

im off to run the bath and slash my thighs.

[mickey1975]

dear god not this same OLD discussion that lost relevance some 5 years ago.

im off to run the bath and slash my thighs.

well said,ask their bank managers who had the best career.also,from the fans point of view,quitter couldnt do an "audience with" in a bradford wmc let alone a sellout british tour

[liamlion]

dear god not this same OLD discussion that lost relevance some 5 years ago.

im off to run the bath and slash my thighs.

well said,ask their bank managers who had the best career.also,from the fans point of view,quitter couldnt do an "audience with" in a bradford wmc let alone a sellout british tour

But the real question is.... was Hatton the best British Light-welterweight of his generation?? The answer is: we dont know because Hatton ducked his only real domestic rival.

Regardless of bank balances or after dinner speaking appearances or meaningless world title belts obtained from forgettable men, Hatton's credibility will forever be tainted by the simple fact that he avoided Junior Witter like the plague.

Just out of interest, does the fact that Junior Witter has a smaller bank balance than Ricky Hatton or is not as popular an after dinner speaker detract from Witter as a legitimate challenge to Ricky Hatton from 2000-2008???

Try as people might to disregard the credibility of Witter as a Hatton opponent, the fact remains that Witter was more deserving of a fight with Hatton than 40 odd of the opponents who actually got to fight Hatton. But hey, thats life...

[DG.]

You're correct Hatton was never really interested in fighting Witter, the reason being Witter brought no money and he wasn't highly thought of on the world scene thanks largely to the tainted view folk had of him after the Judah fight.

How much money and reputation did Pederson etc bring?

Hatton was scared og getting knocked out. Scared!!!!

All this PBF stuff and Pacman is crap - any fighter would fight them even if just for the money!

Hatton was scared of Witter and we all know it.

Brought no money and reputation? 99% of Hattons opponents sold next to no tickets.



HATTON WAS SCARED OF THE HITTER!

[J]

anyone here treally care anymore other than the usual 'tards with an axe to grind?

[Counter-puncher]

that axe has been ground so much, it's more like a rusty worn down lump of metal on top of a rotten stump of wood.

[DG.]

that axe has been ground so much, it's more like a rusty worn down lump of metal on top of a rotten stump of wood.

And when Hatton is discussed in10 yeardbs time the fact he ran from Witter like a big woman means he loses points!


No way should Haton ever get into the HOF for his achievements in the ring.

Only faced two prime top quality fighter and was baten like a ginger stepchild both times
( apologies to the Ginger Chambers!).

As for Witter = he needs to redeem himself and that means fighting every 2 months until somethig happens for him - even if it means fighting for peanuts.

[Counter-puncher]

DG- who has achieved more in their careers?

Hatton?

or Witter?

[hitman_hatton1]

DG- who has achieved more in their careers?

Hatton?

or Witter?

he'll no doubt make up some barmy excuse for this little answer.

[Counter-puncher]

i wasn't asking you. you're as bad as he is. almost

[DG.]

DG- who has achieved more in their careers?

Hatton?

or Witter?

Who would win in a fight?

Hatton made more and had more opportunities!


Hatton limited slugger!

[mortimeradler]

Hatton fans really don't want to discuss this one because it's clear as day that Hatton shamelessly ducked Witter.

Pederson, Vilches, Rios, Stephen Smith. Why couldn't a Witter fight have been made instead of either of these fights. Hatton fans (and I am a Hatton fan too and dislike Witter myself), answer that question. A bit of realism here lads, it's OK to admit Hatton ducked Witter.

As for who achieved more, that is a rhetorical question.



Mortimer Adler.

[Matt W]

To balance the criticism of Hatton and in the interests of a fair argument ask: who has Witter beaten to justify the status some here afford him?

[mortimeradler]

To balance the criticism of Hatton and in the interests of a fair argument ask: who has Witter beaten to justify the status some here afford him?

No need to bring extra curricular arguments into play. The topic is Hattons ducking of Witter which some people argue against. I have posted 4 separate fights (I could post many more from that period). I dislike Witter and am a Hatton fan. Yet I would be a fool to argue against the fact that Hatton shamelessly ducked him.



Mortimer Adler.

[Matt W]

I just don't feel Junior ever deserved a shot at Hatton and the money it would bring him given the other options Hatton had available to him. Witter would have been better served fighting the best possible opposition to force the fight. IMO he never did that and spent more time focusing on Hatton than on developing his own reputation.

[mortimeradler]

I just don't feel Junior ever deserved a shot at Hatton and the money it would bring him given the other options Hatton had available to him. Witter would have been better served fighting the best possible opposition to force the fight. IMO he never did that and spent more time focusing on Hatton than on developing his own reputation.

What made Aldo Rios more deserving than Hattons biggest domestic rival?

[Matt W]

Remind me who Witter was beating at that point in his career...

[liamlion]

I just don't feel Junior ever deserved a shot at Hatton and the money it would bring him given the other options Hatton had available to him. Witter would have been better served fighting the best possible opposition to force the fight. IMO he never did that and spent more time focusing on Hatton than on developing his own reputation.

But do you really, genuinely believe that Witter would ever have got a fight with Hatton regardless of what Witter did??... when you take time to think of your answer just give a thought to the fact that Witter actually went onto become European and WBC champion.

Remind me who Witter was beating at that point in his career...

Remind me who Rios was beating at that point in his career...

See, thats the problem... every excuse that has been levelled against Witter for him not deserving a fight with Hatton equally applies to almost all of Hatton's opponents. Double standards one might call it...

Its simple, Hatton's many and well used excuses for not fighting Witter have no credibility whatsoever... Hatton has held various factors against Witter (e.g. no world title belt, no fans etc etc) in order to dismiss a potential fight, but has then happily ignored the very same factors when hand-picking other less dangerous opponents.

For the record, im genuinely not even a fan of Junior Witter and Im not sure that he would have ever beaten Hatton. But clearly Hatton has ducked the lad without good reason and instead of him and a number of people acknowledging this, attempts are still made to justify Hatton's actions - which I find incredible given the obvious facts of the matter.

[mortimeradler]

Remind me who Witter was beating at that point in his career...

Witter was the British, Commonwealth and European champion at the time. Rios had just moved up from 135 pounds.

Liamlion has made good points.

However, in light of the above facts, can you explain how Aldo Rios "deserved a shot at Hatton" more than Witter did? (Note; I can do with with a lot of Hattons opponents but lets stay with Rios for the time being).




Mortimer Alder.

[states]

Remind me who Witter was beating at that point in his career...

Witter was the British, Commonwealth and European champion at the time. Rios had just moved up from 135 pounds.

Liamlion has made good points.

However, in light of the above facts, can you explain how Aldo Rios "deserved a shot at Hatton" more than Witter did? (Note; I can do with with a lot of Hattons opponents but lets stay with Rios for the time being).




Mortimer Alder.

Witter was not the European champion when Hatton fought Rios.


Christ, is there any saga in British Boxing more tiring then Hatton-Witter? Yes, Hatton should have fought Witter. However, at the end of the day, Hatton had a very good career, and was a big enough name to entice the biggest names. Witter had a decent career, and spent most of it moaning about Hatton. Hatton may well be overrated by the general public, but Witter is wildly overrated by his internet support.

[mortimeradler]

Witter was not the European champion when Hatton fought Rios..

Sorry, "European Union" champion. He was still British and Commonwealth champ and by far Hattons number one domestic rival.

Christ, is there any saga in British Boxing more tiring then Hatton-Witter? Yes, Hatton should have fought Witter. ..

Yes he should have. I have not quoted the rest of your post as it is not pertaining to this subject. You have admitted that Hatton should have fought Witter, like any sane person would do, looking at the facts. Well done.




Mortimer Adler

[Matt W]

My main point is this: would I have liked to have seen Hatton fight (and IMO comprehensively beat) Witter? Yes. Is it a stain on Hatton's career that he didn't? No.

Hatton clearly had reasons for not wanting to fight Junior and we could argue whether that was due to doubting his chances or not wanting to afford Witter the pay-day and profile (I go with the latter - Hatton proved he was willing to fight the best). I just happen to think Witter tends to be greatly overrated when this debate rears its head.

[Counter-puncher]

DG- who has achieved more in their careers?

Hatton?

or Witter?

Who would win in a fight?

Hatton made more and had more opportunities!


Hatton limited slugger!

well avoided denis

here's a thing- the question you avoided was tangible results. tangibly, hatton has had the superior career.

on a hypothetical head to head between them, its intangible, and purely opinion based.