Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis - prime vs prime?

Rocky Balboa · Post by **Rocky Balboa** » 24 Sep 2004, 17:00

I, like many others out there, wished these would have fought, but it unfortunately did not happen. I cannot remember when there was most talk of the bout taking place etc.

What was the year when it was most likely to happen?

In my opinion, Bowe in his prime was so very good, excellent in fact. The things he use to - a big man was not supposed to be able to the things he did so well, like his great in-fighting skills etc.

Lewis has proved he was a worthy champion and achieved more than Bowe ever did. However, I would say Bowe was the more naturally talented fighter. Lews was probably the more disciplined man, especially in between bouts; Bowe use to go up in weight a great deal, so I have read. I have even heard a story that Bowe went to McDonalds once, and ate so many burgers, it was unbelieveable - anyone know anymore on that?

Back to the original question: What would have happened if these would have met? I would pick a top-conditioned Bowe over a top-conditioned Lewis anyday, he had so much natural talent, and great skills for a big man. I feel Bowe would have out-classed him totally.

I know there are people out there who will diasgree with me, but that is what a debate is all about!

Danny

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 24 Sep 2004, 17:50

I would favour Lewis, bowe was always easy to hit and the olympic bout suggests that he couldn't take Lewis' punch (and yes, I have seen it)

zurdo · Post by **zurdo** » 25 Sep 2004, 02:26

I recall seeing the olympic fight and Lennox Lewis dominated the bout there is no reason for me to believe that that sort of ownage wouldn't have vcarried over into the pro ranks> Thats why Bowe always ducked Lewis

harley_man · Post by **harley_man** » 25 Sep 2004, 12:54

Oh, this'll be fun when the Lewis haters come out to play. My bet: all the prognosticating will come down to whose fan club you joined.

Yes, Bowe ducked Lewis, although there will be plenty of folks who will scream and yell to the contrary. There's a reason Bowe disappeared and didn't acheive the greatness many predicted for him. A couple of great tilts with Holyfield do not a HOF career make. His good years were short and he could have done more with his considerable talents IMHO.

I did like watching him, though, since he'd take as good as he gave out and keep fighting (those sad but somehow still amazing beatings he took from Golota). But - and I really am trying to be my objective best here - I think Lewis beats him 9/10 times. His chance would have been the big punch.

But hey, he's back so maybe now he'll acheive that elusive greatness.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 25 Sep 2004, 14:26

zurdo wrote:I recall seeing the olympic fight and Lennox Lewis dominated the bout there is no reason for me to believe that that sort of ownage wouldn't have vcarried over into the pro ranks> Thats why Bowe always ducked Lewis

Actually, Bowe was dominating Lewis in the 1st round and then in the 2nd Lewis landed a big shot that had Bowe hurt but no seriously . . .

On the other hand, Bowe is such a big question mark. He looked great vs Holyfield, and looked good against the other creampuffs that dot his record. While it's clear he was not in top form against Golota, how much does that fight really say??? To me Bowe will always be a big ? . . . and it's next to impossible to judge how good he actually was . . .

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 26 Sep 2004, 10:49

I am a big Lewis fan, but having seen the olympic footage I don't think that you can draw too many conclusions from it, boxing wise. Lewis TKO'd him, but not in a devastating way by any means, and Lewis took a fair bit of leather himself earlier on.

I think Bowe did duck Lewis, and did not want to fight him. He just didn't want to fight a guy as big as himself, who had beaten him as an amatuer, and had just destroyed Ruddock. If he had fought Lewis after he beat Holyfield, and Lewis beat Ruddock, I would have favoured Lewis, but not by much. If they fought as this point in time, I would say Lewis wins maybe 6 or 7 times out of 10.

But prime for prime, I would say Lewis beats him 9 times out of 10, and that 1 time would have to be by a big punch KO.

zslayton · Post by **zslayton** » 26 Sep 2004, 19:10

I am not hating on Lewis by any means here, and I don't really care a great deal for Bowe. However, I think Bowe at his peak would beat Lewis. I think he would be motivated and beat him the same way he beat the big, big mouth cuban who was so dominate before turning pro. Bowe showed me more talent and more heart than Lewis. I will say Lennox fought bigger punchers though, and beat all of them, even though he should have been knocked out by Bruno and Klitschko.

Nobody will ever know how this one would have gone down, so there is only speculation and opinion. What is the point of even talking about it? If they did get in the ring and fight, it would be 2 guys near 40 and shells of what they once were. Lennox did the right thing by getting out when he did, before he suffered the same fate as almost every other champion in history. That will mean much to his legacy in later years.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 26 Sep 2004, 22:22

He should have been knocked out by Bruno and Klitchko? Whats that supposed to mean? Did Lennox not follow the script or something?

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 27 Sep 2004, 00:43

There's no place for improv in boxing

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 28 Sep 2004, 12:57

Bowe by KO early.

An easy fight for Bowe.

Bowe hit harder than McCall & Rahman and would have found Lewis chin early.

In fact Bowe was better in every department apart from longevity, but prime for prime, however brief, Bowe was the better fighter.

Bowe KO4

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 28 Sep 2004, 18:24

I liked Bowe after he beat Holyfield...but he kind of went down hill from there, if you think about it...Rock Newman (his old manager) has said that Bowe didn't have the same drive and motivation after he won the title, had severe, unbelievable weight fluctuations between fights which caused him problems...and resulted in Bowe's being washed up at 29...he also took a lot of damn punches to the head....

He could have had they fight this thread is about, but refused...and if he was as good as you guys say (good enought to take Lewis) then why not take the fight, make the enormous amount of money it would have generated, and beat Lewis?

Riddick Bowe cheated all boxing fans when he ducked Lewis, and cheated himself out of the chance for revenge from the olympic defeat...Why?...he must have been a little scared of Lewis, how else can you explain it???

zslayton · Post by **zslayton** » 30 Sep 2004, 23:01

I do know this.............If anyone can get Lennox to come out of retirement for a fight it is Riddick Bowe.

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 22 Mar 2005, 00:26

Prime Bowe Vs Prime Lennox - I'd take Bowe by mid-round KO -

Lennox's true biggest win is still Vs Razor Ruddock (who himself is not all that great) -

Lennox's win Vs Holyfield and Tyson were against very post-prime guys - Neither of those two were anywhere near their top form - (Razor was at least right in his prime when Lennox Ko'd him) -

And I'm not trying to take anything away from Lennox - But the facts are the facts - Holyfield and Tyson were not anywhere near their primes when the fought Lennox (and that isn't Lennox's fault....but it is still the truth of the matter) -

I think Lennox was a very good HW - His size helped him tremendously (and he used it well) -

But a prime Holyfiled runs Lennox down inside of 10 rounds -

A Prime Tyson simply overwhelmes him and finds his chin early (KO between the 4th and 6th rounds).

Back to Bowe / Lennox - Bowe as better in close - Bowe had the better chin as a pro - And Bowe was willing to take a chance and force the action -

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 22 Mar 2005, 00:37

Prime Bowe Vs Prime Lennox - I'd take Bowe by mid-round KO -

Lennox's true biggest win is still Vs Razor Ruddock (who himself is not all that great) - Or perhaps Vitali (once history sees how he performs in the years to come)

Lennox's win Vs Holyfield and Tyson were against very post-prime guys - Neither of those two were anywhere near their top form - (Razor was at least right in his prime when Lennox Ko'd him) -

And I'm not trying to take anything away from Lennox - But the facts are the facts - Holyfield and Tyson were not anywhere near their primes when the fought Lennox (and that isn't Lennox's fault....but it is still the truth of the matter) -

I think Lennox was a very good HW - His size helped him tremendously (and he used it well) -

But a prime Holyfiled runs Lennox down inside of 10 rounds -

A Prime Tyson simply overwhelmes him and finds his chin early (KO between the 4th and 6th rounds).

Back to Bowe / Lennox - Bowe as better in close - Bowe had the better chin as a pro - And Bowe was willing to take a chance and force the action -

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 22 Mar 2005, 00:46

I agree with most of that, except I'm not sure that Tyson could have beaten Lewis at any point... Just too much of a size advantage.

Graham Brett · Post by **Graham Brett** » 22 Mar 2005, 10:28

harley_man wrote:Oh, this'll be fun when the Lewis haters come out to play. My bet: all the prognosticating will come down to whose fan club you joined.

Yes, Bowe ducked Lewis, although there will be plenty of folks who will scream and yell to the contrary. There's a reason Bowe disappeared and didn't acheive the greatness many predicted for him. A couple of great tilts with Holyfield do not a HOF career make. His good years were short and he could have done more with his considerable talents IMHO.

I did like watching him, though, since he'd take as good as he gave out and keep fighting (those sad but somehow still amazing beatings he took from Golota). But - and I really am trying to be my objective best here - I think Lewis beats him 9/10 times. His chance would have been the big punch.

But hey, he's back so maybe now he'll acheive that elusive greatness.

When do you think Lewis will return to attemp to find his elusive greatness?

For the record, Bowe would have stopped Lewis

snake33 · Post by **snake33** » 23 Mar 2005, 04:41

There are some real Lewis haters. They say Tyson, Holyfield or Bowe
would have beaten him in the right circumstances but in reality:

Lewis beat Bowe (Tko'd his ass)
Lewis beat Holyfield (Most experts say twice)
Lewis beat Tyson (KO'd his ass)
in fact
Lewis fought everybody that would fight him, including Tua and Klitchko,
and beat 'em all.
He beat everybody he ever fought.

That's reality and reality can be such a bitch.

* Fine Lewis was annoyingly arrogent but it's more annoying to constantly
hear this convoluted crap about who would have beaten him.

Graham Brett · Post by **Graham Brett** » 23 Mar 2005, 06:33

snake33 wrote:There are some real Lewis haters. They say Tyson, Holyfield or Bowe
would have beaten him in the right circumstances but in reality:

Lewis beat Bowe (Tko'd his ass)
Lewis beat Holyfield (Most experts say twice)
Lewis beat Tyson (KO'd his ass)
in fact
Lewis fought everybody that would fight him, including Tua and Klitchko,
and beat 'em all.
He beat everybody he ever fought.

That's reality and reality can be such a bitch.

* Fine Lewis was annoyingly arrogent but it's more annoying to constantly
hear this convoluted crap about who would have beaten him.

Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall knocked Lewis OUT, why wouldnt a prime Bowe?

Lexus · Post by **Lexus** » 23 Mar 2005, 10:16

snake33 wrote:There are some real Lewis haters. They say Tyson, Holyfield or Bowe
would have beaten him in the right circumstances but in reality:

Lewis beat Bowe (Tko'd his ass)
Lewis beat Holyfield (Most experts say twice)
Lewis beat Tyson (KO'd his ass)
in fact
Lewis fought everybody that would fight him, including Tua and Klitchko,
and beat 'em all.
He beat everybody he ever fought.

That's reality and reality can be such a bitch.

* Fine Lewis was annoyingly arrogent but it's more annoying to constantly
hear this convoluted crap about who would have beaten him.

Actually, quite a few people say Lewis lost to Holyfield the second time. Regardless, it was a close decision and Lewis never put Holyfield on the canvas, which Bowe did.

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 23 Mar 2005, 23:03

snake33 wrote:There are some real Lewis haters. They say Tyson, Holyfield or Bowe
would have beaten him in the right circumstances but in reality:

Lewis beat Bowe (Tko'd his ass)
Lewis beat Holyfield (Most experts say twice)
Lewis beat Tyson (KO'd his ass)
in fact
Lewis fought everybody that would fight him, including Tua and Klitchko,
and beat 'em all.
He beat everybody he ever fought.

That's reality and reality can be such a bitch.

* Fine Lewis was annoyingly arrogent but it's more annoying to constantly
hear this convoluted crap about who would have beaten him.

The reality is most boxing pundits at ring side all thought Holyfield won the second fight (and with a decent margin) - The fact is the judges were just giving a pay back for the first fight - Holyfield completely set the tone for the second fight, forced the action, shook Lewis up twice and basically was the only one trying to make a fight of it -

And that was an "old" Holyfield doing that - A prime Holyfield runs Lewis right out of the ring - Holyfield TKO's him inside of 10 without a doubt in my mind -

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 24 Mar 2005, 02:02

....many people think bowe would have beaten lewis...and many think lewis would have beaten bowe. the most famous person who thought lewis would beat bowe was bowe.

Lexus · Post by **Lexus** » 24 Mar 2005, 06:26

Jaclem wrote:....many people think bowe would have beaten lewis...and many think lewis would have beaten bowe. the most famous person who thought lewis would beat bowe was bowe.

I remember reading somewhere that Bowe challenged Lewis in 1994 to a rubber match. Apparently, Lewis was more interested in fighting Michael Moorer at the time. Don't know if it's true but I do think the situation is more complicated than Bowe simply being afraid of Lewis.

snake33 · Post by **snake33** » 24 Mar 2005, 08:13

Graham Brett wrote:
snake33 wrote:There are some real Lewis haters. They say Tyson, Holyfield or Bowe
would have beaten him in the right circumstances but in reality:

Lewis beat Bowe (Tko'd his ass)
Lewis beat Holyfield (Most experts say twice)
Lewis beat Tyson (KO'd his ass)
in fact
Lewis fought everybody that would fight him, including Tua and Klitchko,
and beat 'em all.
He beat everybody he ever fought.

That's reality and reality can be such a bitch.

* Fine Lewis was annoyingly arrogent but it's more annoying to constantly
hear this convoluted crap about who would have beaten him.
Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall knocked Lewis OUT, why wouldnt a prime Bowe?

Lewis lost to Rahman and McCall because he was arrogant and took
them lightly. He then went on to BEAT them. When Lewis fought Bowe
he took him seriously and TKO'd his ass. That wasn't a dream, it IS
reality. Bowe and Lewis fought. Lewis won. Period.

meade95 wrote:The reality is most boxing pundits at ring side all thought Holyfield won the second fight

Everybodies got an opinion. In my opinion people that come up with Ifa
mighta coulda crap are mentally masturbating. Lewis BEAT Holyfield in
the second fight. HE WON. That's reality. No matter what you think,
he got the W on his record.

You can't show me one smidgen of tangable evidence that Bowe would
win if they fought. Why? Because when they fought Lewis WON.

Reality is reality
Your dream world is your dream world.
Sorry, but that's the truth.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 24 Mar 2005, 14:53

..when i suggest that bowe did not want to fight lewis (suggest hell...he definitely didn't) if don't mean to impy he was afraid of him in ther sense of getting hurt. i mean he thought..or more likely his managers thought..that he would lose and lose his title.

while i'm here...i'll make that a general statement....fighters may fear losing ..thus hurting their rating... more than they fear taking a beating.....plus matchmaking is usually their management team that makes these decisions.

even fighters who actually look scared when they step into the ring are...in my opinion....more afaid of being embarrassed in front of the crowd....let's say by a humilialting defeat..than they are of suffering pain.

i'm using the words "my opinion" and "general statement " to cover myself against the number of cases that will probably be posted here by those with examples of fighters showing real fear of being hurt. i'll even list one of my own...king levinsky against joe louis.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 24 Mar 2005, 18:23

Bowe and Bowe´s team already started the paperwork for a Bowe-Lewis fight in 1994, but Lewis killed the fight by losing to McCall. Also in the Olympics the stoppage was incredibly premature to state it lightly, and in the first round Bowe was handing Lewis his ass on a silver platter. I seriously don´t think Bowe was afraid of Lewis or anyone . .