The Spinks-Holmes decisions

[Jan]

Some say the decion(s) was/were not correct. What do you think?

[witherspoon]

I watched both recently and scored the first fight even.
Can't remember how I scored the second, alot of even rounds that could have gone either way i think.

[dempseyfire]

Holmes was robbed in the rematch, a fight he won clearly.

The first fight really could've gone either way . . lots of close rounds.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I scored the rematch for Holmes, but it isn't the robbery people make it out to be. The case can be made Spinks retained the title, even though, as I said, I leaned in Holmes' favour. Some people make it out to be on-par with something like Ali-Norton III or the like, though, & that's nonsense.

The first one, I've only scored twice. Had it for Spinks by two, then, upon revision, a draw. Holmes went ballistic, which is understandable in the moment with so much for him on the line. However, the fact he never really changed his attitude toward the whole thing speaks to the spoiled, obscenely immature brat he always was. There were no such complaints on Holmes' part (or, for that matter, return fights) when he unconvincingly edged the likes of Norton (past-it) & Witherspoon (green as grass).

[Collins2000]

Holmes clearly lost the first fight.

Holmes clearly won the second first.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Holmes was robbed in the rematch, a fight he won clearly.

The first fight really could've gone either way . . lots of close rounds.

- The fact that Spinks landed 10 jabs to every one of Holmes and 10 rights to every one of Holmes in the first fight indicates that indeed, you did watch with closed eyes.

Herky-jerky Spinks masterclass was the first fight. 2nd close due to different Spinks tactics down to him being sick in advance, but given the 3 or so gifts Holmes got in his title reign, the rematch was a just Spinks decision, whereas you are just half blind and blinkered in one eye and can't see out of the other.

[My2Sense]

Holmes clearly lost the first fight.

Holmes clearly won the second first.

Pretty much the way I saw it.

[Collins2000]

Holmes was robbed in the rematch, a fight he won clearly.

The first fight really could've gone either way . . lots of close rounds.

the rematch was a just Spinks decision

Delusional or what?

[I Feel Fine]

Holmes clearly lost the first fight.

Holmes clearly won the second first.

I agree.
Either way, Holmes in his prime clearly stops Spinks.

[Robinson]

BRR

say something nice about Holmes....then...maybe you will earn a hug.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Holmes in his prime clearly stops Spinks.

- Be no fun to be a fly hanging out where you hang out eating what you eat.

5 stopped Lucien Rodriguez. 5 stopped Carl Williams. Mr. Larry was not among them. He couldn't even stop a battle worn, battle weary Ken Norton who was stopped 4x in his career.

Spinks was past prime with arthritic knees when he moved up for the last stages of his career. Mr. Larry never beat a prime great in his life, losing to every prime HOFer he fought and somehow miraculously avoiding the prime golden era of HOFers that stamped the greatness of Ali, Frazier, Foreman and Norton.

He and his purple slurple bandwagon still whinging about the Spinks decision after all these years, eh? Pretty much defined his HOF acceptance speech, whinging about Rocky and Big George. Obvious inferiority complex that no amount of accolades can ever wash the stain from.

KO% of 58% OK, but not registering on any Richter scale. Looked like 'roidified Godzilla on HGH against Marvis and Leon though........ 8)

[Robinson]

BRR

Say something nice about Holmes...

[dempseyfire]

I scored the rematch for Holmes, but it isn't the robbery people make it out to be. The case can be made Spinks retained the title, even though, as I said, I leaned in Holmes' favour. Some people make it out to be on-par with something like Ali-Norton III or the like, though, & that's nonsense.

The first one, I've only scored twice. Had it for Spinks by two, then, upon revision, a draw. Holmes went ballistic, which is understandable in the moment with so much for him on the line. However, the fact he never really changed his attitude toward the whole thing speaks to the spoiled, obscenely immature brat he always was. There were no such complaints on Holmes' part (or, for that matter, return fights) when he unconvincingly edged the likes of Norton (past-it) & Witherspoon (green as grass).

He beat both Norton and Witherspoon legit.

Particularly for the Norton fight, I dare anyone to name 8 rounds Norton won in that fight to deserve the decision.

Norton was in the twilight of his prime for Holmes. To me that was his last hurrah. To claim Norton was 'washed up' vs Larry is ridiculous, he was coming off of some of his best wins vs Ali (forget the decision), Bobick, and Young.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I specifically stated he beat them. I said he edged those fights, albeit, unconvincingly (i.e. they were quite close). I scored his fight with Norton in Holmes' favour, but it was extremely tight. I didn't say Norton was washed-up, either --- said the man was past-it, & I stand by that. To me, washed-up is end of the line stuff, past-it is just that --- past your true prime. Norton was.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

145-140 Spinks in the first one.

143-142 Holmes in the second. The odd thing about the second fight is that it's widely considered a robbery, yet Spinks dominated down the stretch. at the same time, I think it was a pretty easy fight to score. they both won just about every rd wide.

[yancey]

Holmes definitely won the 2nd fight. The first fight was about even, but...

Can anyone imagine that Spinks would have been given the decision in the first fight had the defending champion been Ali?

Not a chance.

[I Feel Fine]

That's cute yancey, trying to find any opening to attack Ali's credibility.
Tell it to brother Leon that its impossible to win a decision against Ali.
Holmes got a nice fat gift the fight before against Williams. He did not win the first Spinks fight, and deserved the loss. Holmes fought a dumb fight the first time. He did deserve the second win, where Spinks had a generally lackluster showing.

[yancey]

That's cute yancey, trying to find any opening to attack Ali's credibility.
Tell it to brother Leon that its impossible to win a decision against Ali.
Holmes got a nice fat gift the fight before against Williams. He did not win the first Spinks fight, and deserved the loss. Holmes fought a dumb fight the first time. He did deserve the second win, where Spinks had a generally lackluster showing.

Who, me, attacking Ali's credibility?

Nah.

That is for other astute types.

I like Ali. He is on my Top 10 list, that should make you happy.

[I Feel Fine]

The only difference is that Ali wouldn't fight so dispassionately in such a close fight that was so clearly slipping out of his hands. Holmes did, which is why he lost. Spinks out hustled him all the way. Spinks wanted it more.
Holmes, on the other hand, wanted it more in the rematch, and he should have won there. I don't know of anyone, other than the two judges who scored for Spinks and the four people who voted here, who thought that Holmes lost that fight. After Tyson's Tyrell Biggs fight, Jim Jacobs made it very clear that he wanted Holmes before Spinks because everybody knew that Holmes had won the rematch.

Didn't notice BBR's comment until now... I actually agree with some of that, but I do stand by what I said, I do think a prime Holmes clearly stops Spinks. I don't see any way Spinks lasts 15 with a younger Larry.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

The only difference is that Ali wouldn't fight so dispassionately in such a close fight that was so clearly slipping out of his hands. Holmes did, which is why he lost. Spinks out hustled him all the way. Spinks wanted it more.
Holmes, on the other hand, wanted it more in the rematch, and he should have won there. I don't know of anyone, other than the two judges who scored for Spinks and the four people who voted here, who thought that Holmes lost that fight. After Tyson's Tyrell Biggs fight, Jim Jacobs made it very clear that he wanted Holmes before Spinks because everybody knew that Holmes had won the rematch.

Didn't notice BBR's comment until now... I actually agree with some of that, but I do stand by what I said, I do think a prime Holmes clearly stops Spinks. I don't see any way Spinks lasts 15 with a younger Larry.

- Hold on, you're claiming that "Rocky can't carry my jockstrap" Mr. Larry didn't want the most revered record in boxing history now? Is there no end to your embellishments of history?

Larry even chose THE LH champ of the world to match in perfect unison Rocky's last fight against Moore. Spinks chosen over the dozen plus prime heavy WBC/WBA champs of the era who would've leapt at the chance to put him down on top of the obvious payday of such a big fight.

The rematch was unimportant save to Mr. Larry's gored pride. As I pointed out, Spinks was sick and still fought credibly regardless of any contested result. Mr. Larry never beat a prime fighter in the class of Spinks in his entire career, and now you claim he knocks Michael out prime to prime?

Shameless boxing fans are a dime of dozen and easily identified by such baseless claims.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

BRR

Say something nice about Holmes...

- He married well.

[I Feel Fine]

Hmm, I thought my first comment was actually quite critical of Holmes. Apparently not good enough for BRR, who can't find anything positive to say about Larry... outside of his marriage.
It is true that Spinks was sick in the rematch, I recall that he threw up at one point during the fight, now that you mention it. But I do stand by what I said about a prime Holmes knocking him out.

[Adamj1987]

Holmes won both IMO

[Collins2000]

Holmes won both IMO

I'd be interested to see your round by round score of the first fight.

To me, Holmes seemed to be unable to figure out Spinks and for long periods was reduced to plodding after him with his mouth hanging open. Every time Larry thought he was in position, Spinks would nimbly move aside and land a one-two on a floundering champion.