Classic American West Coast Boxing

[kikibalt]

[dagosd2000]

Jake LaMotta

[kikibalt]

DAMAGED GOODS
Documentary exposes harsh reality of life after boxing

By STEVE BUFFERY

There is a scene in the documentary "After The Last Round" when an old man named Harry Moyer wanders over to his son Phil and begins to wipe Phil's face with a tissue, precisely as he would have done years earlier when Phil was boxing and Harry was his trainer.
Phil suffers from dementia and stares past his father, unfocussed and lost.
"You're all right," whispers Harry to his aging son.
Phil, however, clearly is not all right.
In his 90s, Harry is in much better shape than Phil and his other son Denny, who also was a world-ranked fighter out of Portland, Ore., in the 1950s and '60s.
The camera then pans out to show Denny and Phil sitting in adjoining chairs, starring blankly ahead, brothers bound by the brutal sport of boxing and the wretched consequences the so-called "sweet science" exacts on those who embrace it.
Everyone who has ever watched a round of boxing generally is aware that the sport is -- particularly at the professional level -- dangerous and potentially lethal. But what we don't see is what happens to these damaged fighters after they walk away from the ring.
Denny and Phil Moyer were legends in the Portland area, world-ranked middleweights, charismatic and handsome.
Now, they are broken, suffering from dementia, living together at a nursing home, in need of constant care, their conditions deteriorating.
Laura Moyer, Phil's daughter, describes how when they first took her father to the home, the tough ex-fighter, who fought the very best of his day, including Sugar Ray Robinson, began crying.
"He said: 'Please don't leave me here,' " said Laura, breaking down in tears. "But we couldn't take care of him anymore."
The executive producer of After The Last Round is Tom Moyer, a cousin of Denny and Phil.
Now a resident of Santa Barbara, Calif., Tom grew up in Portland, where the Moyers were the first family of boxing. Tom's father also trained Phil and Denny. But what was once a source of pride for the family has turned into tragedy. And not just because of Denny and Phil's dementia. Harry also is a victim, as he spends his remaining days dealing with the fact that he put his boys in the ring and is, in a way, the architect of their demise.
Decades later, having witnessed his cousins' downward spiral, Tom Moyer encouraged his own son Patrick and Patrick's friend, the filmmaker Ryan Pettey, to take put together a documentary, not just about the Moyer family, but on what happens to fighters after the final bell has sounded.
Patrick is the film's producer and Pettey the director.
The film shows that not only are many ex-professional fighters, perhaps even the majority, damaged goods, most are destitute, or nearly there -- cast away like broken toys, treated worse than greyhound dogs.
There is no pension for ex-fighters. Most walk away with nothing, in fact, less than nothing, because they leave boxing with less than what they had going in.
After The Last Round profiles boxers who are in the advanced state of dementia, or blind, or broke, but also examines why some fighters, including many who waged tremendous wars in the ring and absorbed untold punishment -- such as Canadian heavyweight legend George Chuvalo -- have survived seemingly unscathed, at least physically.
Tom Moyer is justifiably proud of the film, but equally frustrated, as he is attempting to have the movie included in this year's Toronto International Film Festival. But as of yet, he has had no luck.
Near the end of the documentary, the camera focuses on Denny's wife, Sandy.
"He's living over there, but really he's dead," she says of her husband. "And nobody cares. Frankly, nobody ever will care. But I care."
Tom Moyer's reason for producing After the Last Round, and for pushing for its inclusion in this year's TIFF, is so more people will care.
[email protected]

[kikibalt]

http://californiaboxinghalloffame.com/

[kikibalt]

Speaking of old stuff, any of you guys remember saving the chicken fat and bacon grease in the fridge? I think Jeri and I still did that until the early 80's. That was before anyone had heard of words like , Lite, Lo-Cal, Lo-Fat, etc....

Randy

Randy, when we go camping we use bacon grease to fry eggs and potatoes, the bacon grease gives the eggs and potatoes that bacon flavor....

Btw, it looks like I might be going camping & fishing to the High Sierras for a few days next week,... .. wanna go?

[dagosd2000]

DAMAGED GOODS
Documentary exposes harsh reality of life after boxing

By STEVE BUFFERY

There is a scene in the documentary "After The Last Round" when an old man named Harry Moyer wanders over to his son Phil and begins to wipe Phil's face with a tissue, precisely as he would have done years earlier when Phil was boxing and Harry was his trainer.
Phil suffers from dementia and stares past his father, unfocussed and lost.
"You're all right," whispers Harry to his aging son.
Phil, however, clearly is not all right.
In his 90s, Harry is in much better shape than Phil and his other son Denny, who also was a world-ranked fighter out of Portland, Ore., in the 1950s and '60s.
The camera then pans out to show Denny and Phil sitting in adjoining chairs, starring blankly ahead, brothers bound by the brutal sport of boxing and the wretched consequences the so-called "sweet science" exacts on those who embrace it.
Everyone who has ever watched a round of boxing generally is aware that the sport is -- particularly at the professional level -- dangerous and potentially lethal. But what we don't see is what happens to these damaged fighters after they walk away from the ring.
Denny and Phil Moyer were legends in the Portland area, world-ranked middleweights, charismatic and handsome.
Now, they are broken, suffering from dementia, living together at a nursing home, in need of constant care, their conditions deteriorating.
Laura Moyer, Phil's daughter, describes how when they first took her father to the home, the tough ex-fighter, who fought the very best of his day, including Sugar Ray Robinson, began crying.
"He said: 'Please don't leave me here,' " said Laura, breaking down in tears. "But we couldn't take care of him anymore."
The executive producer of After The Last Round is Tom Moyer, a cousin of Denny and Phil.
Now a resident of Santa Barbara, Calif., Tom grew up in Portland, where the Moyers were the first family of boxing. Tom's father also trained Phil and Denny. But what was once a source of pride for the family has turned into tragedy. And not just because of Denny and Phil's dementia. Harry also is a victim, as he spends his remaining days dealing with the fact that he put his boys in the ring and is, in a way, the architect of their demise.
Decades later, having witnessed his cousins' downward spiral, Tom Moyer encouraged his own son Patrick and Patrick's friend, the filmmaker Ryan Pettey, to take put together a documentary, not just about the Moyer family, but on what happens to fighters after the final bell has sounded.
Patrick is the film's producer and Pettey the director.
The film shows that not only are many ex-professional fighters, perhaps even the majority, damaged goods, most are destitute, or nearly there -- cast away like broken toys, treated worse than greyhound dogs.
There is no pension for ex-fighters. Most walk away with nothing, in fact, less than nothing, because they leave boxing with less than what they had going in.
After The Last Round profiles boxers who are in the advanced state of dementia, or blind, or broke, but also examines why some fighters, including many who waged tremendous wars in the ring and absorbed untold punishment -- such as Canadian heavyweight legend George Chuvalo -- have survived seemingly unscathed, at least physically.
Tom Moyer is justifiably proud of the film, but equally frustrated, as he is attempting to have the movie included in this year's Toronto International Film Festival. But as of yet, he has had no luck.
Near the end of the documentary, the camera focuses on Denny's wife, Sandy.
"He's living over there, but really he's dead," she says of her husband. "And nobody cares. Frankly, nobody ever will care. But I care."
Tom Moyer's reason for producing After the Last Round, and for pushing for its inclusion in this year's TIFF, is so more people will care.
[email protected]

FIGHT TO THE FINISH

I remember Denny Moyer. I remember a lot of fighters like him that were fighting too long. But whether they needed the money or not they seemed not to care. I think they knew in the back of their minds that things would only get worse. They never talked about it because that would be sniveling and fighters don't snivel. Denny Moyer wasn't a sniveler. Nice enough guy sober. Get him drunk,which didn't take much doing,and you better be on his right side. But sniveling? Naw,how can you have fun complaining?

The stories we read about the Moyers back to the Langfords,and recently the Gatti's and Arguellos,and the recent HBO documentary on the Resto/Collins fight-it's part of the world of boxing. We feel for them,but what can we do? Boxing isn't one of those sports where kids are honed like Little League. (Remember that Walt Disney series,'Moochie And The Little League?).Can you imagine Walt Disney putting together a kids' show called "Moochie And The Boxing Ring?" Society would push The Society For The Prevention Of Cruelties To Animals to the back burner.

Big venues for boxing are Vegas and Atlantic City. Gamblers are on it like flies on sh-t. There'll never be a world or even a national commission to control it because the leeches would have to move on.The leeches are in control. Congress won't do anything except ask basesball players about steroids.

If Denny is coherent I don't think he'd want anyone to feel sorry for him.It's good that he has his wife. I've always thought fighters' wives are the best. Their bridge to heaven is their suffering watching their husbands engage in the ring. But wherever Denny is,I think he's still trying to find a good time.Too bad we all cry watching him struggle.

[kikibalt]

Thanks Roger for your story on Denny Moyer, Its posted on my web site and also at the CBZ

[dagosd2000]

Thanks Roger for your story on Denny Moyer, Its posted on my web site and also at the CBZ

Thanks Frank. BTW. Is everything still on for me and Maria the 26th?

[kikibalt]

Thanks Roger for your story on Denny Moyer, Its posted on my web site and also at the CBZ

Thanks Frank. BTW. Is everything still on for me and Maria the 26th?

Hell Yes! you. the Ricks, the Randys, the Ed Hernandezs and the Renes are all a done deal, I have the tickets for you all.

[Randyman]

DAMAGED GOODS
Documentary exposes harsh reality of life after boxing

By STEVE BUFFERY

There is a scene in the documentary "After The Last Round" when an old man named Harry Moyer wanders over to his son Phil and begins to wipe Phil's face with a tissue, precisely as he would have done years earlier when Phil was boxing and Harry was his trainer.
Phil suffers from dementia and stares past his father, unfocussed and lost.
"You're all right," whispers Harry to his aging son.
Phil, however, clearly is not all right.
In his 90s, Harry is in much better shape than Phil and his other son Denny, who also was a world-ranked fighter out of Portland, Ore., in the 1950s and '60s.
The camera then pans out to show Denny and Phil sitting in adjoining chairs, starring blankly ahead, brothers bound by the brutal sport of boxing and the wretched consequences the so-called "sweet science" exacts on those who embrace it.
Everyone who has ever watched a round of boxing generally is aware that the sport is -- particularly at the professional level -- dangerous and potentially lethal. But what we don't see is what happens to these damaged fighters after they walk away from the ring.
Denny and Phil Moyer were legends in the Portland area, world-ranked middleweights, charismatic and handsome.
Now, they are broken, suffering from dementia, living together at a nursing home, in need of constant care, their conditions deteriorating.
Laura Moyer, Phil's daughter, describes how when they first took her father to the home, the tough ex-fighter, who fought the very best of his day, including Sugar Ray Robinson, began crying.
"He said: 'Please don't leave me here,' " said Laura, breaking down in tears. "But we couldn't take care of him anymore."
The executive producer of After The Last Round is Tom Moyer, a cousin of Denny and Phil.
Now a resident of Santa Barbara, Calif., Tom grew up in Portland, where the Moyers were the first family of boxing. Tom's father also trained Phil and Denny. But what was once a source of pride for the family has turned into tragedy. And not just because of Denny and Phil's dementia. Harry also is a victim, as he spends his remaining days dealing with the fact that he put his boys in the ring and is, in a way, the architect of their demise.
Decades later, having witnessed his cousins' downward spiral, Tom Moyer encouraged his own son Patrick and Patrick's friend, the filmmaker Ryan Pettey, to take put together a documentary, not just about the Moyer family, but on what happens to fighters after the final bell has sounded.
Patrick is the film's producer and Pettey the director.
The film shows that not only are many ex-professional fighters, perhaps even the majority, damaged goods, most are destitute, or nearly there -- cast away like broken toys, treated worse than greyhound dogs.
There is no pension for ex-fighters. Most walk away with nothing, in fact, less than nothing, because they leave boxing with less than what they had going in.
After The Last Round profiles boxers who are in the advanced state of dementia, or blind, or broke, but also examines why some fighters, including many who waged tremendous wars in the ring and absorbed untold punishment -- such as Canadian heavyweight legend George Chuvalo -- have survived seemingly unscathed, at least physically.
Tom Moyer is justifiably proud of the film, but equally frustrated, as he is attempting to have the movie included in this year's Toronto International Film Festival. But as of yet, he has had no luck.
Near the end of the documentary, the camera focuses on Denny's wife, Sandy.
"He's living over there, but really he's dead," she says of her husband. "And nobody cares. Frankly, nobody ever will care. But I care."
Tom Moyer's reason for producing After the Last Round, and for pushing for its inclusion in this year's TIFF, is so more people will care.
[email protected]

FIGHT TO THE FINISH

I remember Denny Moyer. I remember a lot of fighters like him that were fighting too long. But whether they needed the money or not they seemed not to care. I think they knew in the back of their minds that things would only get worse. They never talked about it because that would be sniveling and fighters don't snivel. Denny Moyer wasn't a sniveler. Nice enough guy sober. Get him drunk,which didn't take much doing,and you better be on his right side. But sniveling? Naw,how can you have fun complaining?

The stories we read about the Moyers back to the Langfords,and recently the Gatti's and Arguellos,and the recent HBO documentary on the Resto/Collins fight-it's part of the world of boxing. We feel for them,but what can we do? Boxing isn't one of those sports where kids are honed like Little League. (Remember that Walt Disney series,'Moochie And The Little League?).Can you imagine Walt Disney putting together a kids' show called "Moochie And The Boxing Ring?" Society would push The Society For The Prevention Of Cruelties To Animals to the back burner.

Big venues for boxing are Vegas and Atlantic City. Gamblers are on it like flies on sh-t. There'll never be a world or even a national commission to control it because the leeches would have to move on.The leeches are in control. Congress won't do anything except ask basesball players about steroids.

If Denny is coherent I don't think he'd want anyone to feel sorry for him.It's good that he has his wife. I've always thought fighters' wives are the best. Their bridge to heaven is their suffering watching their husbands engage in the ring. But wherever Denny is,I think he's still trying to find a good time.Too bad we all cry watching him struggle.

That was great Roger. I posted this on my site too. Along with Manuel Ortiz and many others written about here on this thread, I've learned a lot, sort of "The Rest of the story" on Denny Moyer.

Thanks
Randy

[Randyman]

Thanks Roger for your story on Denny Moyer, Its posted on my web site and also at the CBZ

Thanks Frank. BTW. Is everything still on for me and Maria the 26th?

Hell Yes! you. the Ricks, the Randys, the Ed Hernandezs and the Renes are all a done deal, I have the tickets for you all.

[Randyman]

Speaking of old stuff, any of you guys remember saving the chicken fat and bacon grease in the fridge? I think Jeri and I still did that until the early 80's. That was before anyone had heard of words like , Lite, Lo-Cal, Lo-Fat, etc....

Randy

Randy, when we go camping we use bacon grease to fry eggs and potatoes, the bacon grease gives the eggs and potatoes that bacon flavor....

Btw, it looks like I might be going camping & fishing to the High Sierras for a few days next week,... .. wanna go?

Frank, I still use bacon grease when I go camping too. The eggs taste so much better. Every once in a while I'll use bacon grease for the eggs at home. Jeri and girls give me hell when I do. Then they snitch on me and tell my mother.

Sadly, I'll have to take a rain check on the camping, Frank. For the time being I need to have my nose to the grindstone.

Randy

[Randyman]

Rog, have you ever painted Denny Moyer? Or did I miss it?

Randy

[kikibalt]

Speaking of old stuff, any of you guys remember saving the chicken fat and bacon grease in the fridge? I think Jeri and I still did that until the early 80's. That was before anyone had heard of words like , Lite, Lo-Cal, Lo-Fat, etc....

Randy

Randy, when we go camping we use bacon grease to fry eggs and potatoes, the bacon grease gives the eggs and potatoes that bacon flavor....

Btw, it looks like I might be going camping & fishing to the High Sierras for a few days next week,... .. wanna go?

Frank, I still use bacon grease when I go camping too. The eggs taste so much better. Every once in a while I'll use bacon grease for the eggs at home. Jeri and girls give me hell when I do. Then they snitch on me and tell my mother.

Sadly, I'll have to take a rain check on the camping, Frank. For the time being I need to have my nose to the grindstone.

Randy

Well ok. I'll think of you when I catch my first trout of the trip....

[Randyman]

Well ok. I'll think of you when I catch my first trout of the trip....

:( :(

[Rick Farris]

DAMAGED GOODS
Documentary exposes harsh reality of life after boxing

By STEVE BUFFERY

There is a scene in the documentary "After The Last Round" when an old man named Harry Moyer wanders over to his son Phil and begins to wipe Phil's face with a tissue, precisely as he would have done years earlier when Phil was boxing and Harry was his trainer.
Phil suffers from dementia and stares past his father, unfocussed and lost.
"You're all right," whispers Harry to his aging son.
Phil, however, clearly is not all right.
In his 90s, Harry is in much better shape than Phil and his other son Denny, who also was a world-ranked fighter out of Portland, Ore., in the 1950s and '60s.
The camera then pans out to show Denny and Phil sitting in adjoining chairs, starring blankly ahead, brothers bound by the brutal sport of boxing and the wretched consequences the so-called "sweet science" exacts on those who embrace it.
Everyone who has ever watched a round of boxing generally is aware that the sport is -- particularly at the professional level -- dangerous and potentially lethal. But what we don't see is what happens to these damaged fighters after they walk away from the ring.
Denny and Phil Moyer were legends in the Portland area, world-ranked middleweights, charismatic and handsome.
Now, they are broken, suffering from dementia, living together at a nursing home, in need of constant care, their conditions deteriorating.
Laura Moyer, Phil's daughter, describes how when they first took her father to the home, the tough ex-fighter, who fought the very best of his day, including Sugar Ray Robinson, began crying.
"He said: 'Please don't leave me here,' " said Laura, breaking down in tears. "But we couldn't take care of him anymore."
The executive producer of After The Last Round is Tom Moyer, a cousin of Denny and Phil.
Now a resident of Santa Barbara, Calif., Tom grew up in Portland, where the Moyers were the first family of boxing. Tom's father also trained Phil and Denny. But what was once a source of pride for the family has turned into tragedy. And not just because of Denny and Phil's dementia. Harry also is a victim, as he spends his remaining days dealing with the fact that he put his boys in the ring and is, in a way, the architect of their demise.
Decades later, having witnessed his cousins' downward spiral, Tom Moyer encouraged his own son Patrick and Patrick's friend, the filmmaker Ryan Pettey, to take put together a documentary, not just about the Moyer family, but on what happens to fighters after the final bell has sounded.
Patrick is the film's producer and Pettey the director.
The film shows that not only are many ex-professional fighters, perhaps even the majority, damaged goods, most are destitute, or nearly there -- cast away like broken toys, treated worse than greyhound dogs.
There is no pension for ex-fighters. Most walk away with nothing, in fact, less than nothing, because they leave boxing with less than what they had going in.
After The Last Round profiles boxers who are in the advanced state of dementia, or blind, or broke, but also examines why some fighters, including many who waged tremendous wars in the ring and absorbed untold punishment -- such as Canadian heavyweight legend George Chuvalo -- have survived seemingly unscathed, at least physically.
Tom Moyer is justifiably proud of the film, but equally frustrated, as he is attempting to have the movie included in this year's Toronto International Film Festival. But as of yet, he has had no luck.
Near the end of the documentary, the camera focuses on Denny's wife, Sandy.
"He's living over there, but really he's dead," she says of her husband. "And nobody cares. Frankly, nobody ever will care. But I care."
Tom Moyer's reason for producing After the Last Round, and for pushing for its inclusion in this year's TIFF, is so more people will care.
[email protected]

FIGHT TO THE FINISH

I remember Denny Moyer. I remember a lot of fighters like him that were fighting too long. But whether they needed the money or not they seemed not to care. I think they knew in the back of their minds that things would only get worse. They never talked about it because that would be sniveling and fighters don't snivel. Denny Moyer wasn't a sniveler. Nice enough guy sober. Get him drunk,which didn't take much doing,and you better be on his right side. But sniveling? Naw,how can you have fun complaining?

The stories we read about the Moyers back to the Langfords,and recently the Gatti's and Arguellos,and the recent HBO documentary on the Resto/Collins fight-it's part of the world of boxing. We feel for them,but what can we do? Boxing isn't one of those sports where kids are honed like Little League. (Remember that Walt Disney series,'Moochie And The Little League?).Can you imagine Walt Disney putting together a kids' show called "Moochie And The Boxing Ring?" Society would push The Society For The Prevention Of Cruelties To Animals to the back burner.

Big venues for boxing are Vegas and Atlantic City. Gamblers are on it like flies on sh-t. There'll never be a world or even a national commission to control it because the leeches would have to move on.The leeches are in control. Congress won't do anything except ask basesball players about steroids.

If Denny is coherent I don't think he'd want anyone to feel sorry for him.It's good that he has his wife. I've always thought fighters' wives are the best. Their bridge to heaven is their suffering watching their husbands engage in the ring. But wherever Denny is,I think he's still trying to find a good time.Too bad we all cry watching him struggle.

Roger . . . Very poweful story. During the past few years with the WBHOF, I see these guys and remember when they were young & fresh. I grew up seeing this with the older guys, but it was different as they were adults and I was a kid. Now, I see my old friends struggling, and all I can see is how the once were, when on top of their game. How else can I look at it, without ittaking me down?


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Well ok. I'll think of you when I catch my first trout of the trip....

:( :(

Frank . . . The ref is going to penalize you for "unneccessary roughness." I know Randy will be suffering when he visualizes you catching that damn fish.
Have a great trip.


-Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

Well ok. I'll think of you when I catch my first trout of the trip....

:( :(

Frank . . . The ref is going to penalize you for "unneccessary roughness." I know Randy will be suffering when he visualizes you catching that damn fish.
Have a great trip.


-Rick Farris

Am I hittting below the belt Rick....

[Rick Farris]

Am I hittting below the belt Rick....
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________-


"Make him a land owner . . . "

I have a feeling Randy will remember something that Mel Epstein once told me.
On occasion, Mel would would "suggest" I slow a fast opponent down by slipping a shot a little south of the border.
As you know Frank, when your in the corner of a televised fight, you can't tell your fighter to to hit the other guy in the balls.

So Mel Epstein came up with a code he could use in the event Jim Healy was sticking the TV mike into the corner between rounds.
Mel said, "If I want you to hit the guy low, I'll tell you to make him a land owner." I didn't get it.
He explained, "That means I want you to give the bastid a couple of acres (achers). Got it now?"


-Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

Am I hittting below the belt Rick....
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________-


"Make him a land owner . . . "

I have a feeling Randy will remember something that Mel Epstein once told me.
On occasion, Mel would would "suggest" I slow a fast opponent down by slipping a shot a little south of the border.
As you know Frank, when your in the corner of a televised fight, you can't tell your fighter to to hit the other guy in the balls.

So Mel Epstein came up with a code he could use in the event Jim Healy was sticking the TV mike into the corner between rounds.
Mel said, "If I want you to hit the guy low, I'll tell you to make him a land owner." I didn't get it.
He explained, "That means I want you to give the bastid a couple of acres (achers). Got it now?"


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Hey guys . . .

Something is different about posting on this thread. Is it possible we have too much information on this forum?
Are we running out of space? Is that possible?
There is something different about the format.
Has anybody else noticed?
We are just four posts short of 21,000. Lots of copy.


-Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

Hey guys . . .

Something is different about posting on this thread. Is it possible we have too much information on this forum?
Are we running out of space? Is that possible?
There is something different about the format.
Has anybody else noticed?
We are just four posts short of 21,000. Lots of copy.


-Rick Farris

I know that I have problems posting at times, when I click on "quote" the window jumps up and down and I can't see what I'm typing.

[dagosd2000]

Rog, have you ever painted Denny Moyer? Or did I miss it?

Randy

I can't remember,but I recall someone commenting on a painting of Moyer. I'll look. May paint another one tomorrow.

[Rick Farris]

Hey guys . . .

Something is different about posting on this thread. Is it possible we have too much information on this forum?
Are we running out of space? Is that possible?
There is something different about the format.
Has anybody else noticed?
We are just four posts short of 21,000. Lots of copy.


-Rick Farris

I know that I have problems posting at times, when I click on "quote" the window jumps up and down and I can't see what I'm typing.

Yes Frank, that's the problem. I'm curious what's causing this. I don't want to sound paramoid, but as a Cyber Boxing Zone vet, I know our thread can be lost forever.
Our friend, John Bardelli, has already saved the first year of this thread for history, and we regulars all will have a copy. Hope the second isn't in jeopardy?


-Ricardo

[Randyman]

Jeri and I took a break today and drove down to Balboa Island in Orange County. It's nice place to spend an afternoon. We stopped at Ciao's Italian restaurant for dinner. It was worth the drive.