Junior Witter/Devon Alexander

[lefthook82]

That he meant it

That he would go into a 12 week training camp for the biggest and most dangerous fight in his career and expect his tariners to work for nothing and for him not to get paid. Not buying it for a sec

@ DG

He lost the belt at the prime opportunity for him. A comebacking Riky haton fighting two weeks later

And even if he didnt. We have seen the contempt hatton showed for the belts anyway. Talk it up, win it and when it doesnt suit him, bin it. He no doubt would have pulled a Bradley sooner or later when holdng the WBC belt so is it really an incentive

[Autobarn]

Witter v Hatton would have been the worst fight ever.

Complete speculation and a statement that to be fair wasnt worth you even wasting your time typing. The reality is nobody knows how a fight is gonna turn out until the fight actually takes place.

I think the needle between both fighters would have added some real spice.

ok but it would likely have been bad: messy, scrappy, falling into each other. would witter have been able to get out of hatton's clinches? it would have been ugly, it could have been horrendous.

if hatton could sell out a big arena v lazcano, who lost to the guy that witter destroyed (harris)...it just goes to show that witter didn't bring enough to that table of hatton's, a table that is filled with pork pies, booze, and rip off PPV money. what did witter bring - a world title, some gymnastic skills, british citizenship & a southpaw style that would have wicky hitting air at times. however Showtime hate Witter for spoiling the Judah fight, HBO were indifferent

for it to happen there has to be a strong reason. boxers these days are a savvy bunch, they know what they're worth and what they can get away with. witter just lacks the star quality. hatton was calling the shots whether we like it or not, so it was always going to be up to him.

[liamlion]

That he meant it

That he would go into a 12 week training camp for the biggest and most dangerous fight in his career and expect his tariners to work for nothing and for him not to get paid. Not buying it for a sec

Thats fair enough. Its your opinion and I can see the sense in what youre saying.

But look at it this way... Would Witter really prepare for 12 weeks for a fight without pay?... Well, If he was confident of winning he may do, and if there was no other way he could force the fight he might well do. Furthermore if he thought that success would bring greater financial rewards following the fights then effectively it would be seen as speculating to accumulate and in this respect I do believe Witter would have taken the fight on those terms.

To clarify, Witter stated clearly that although he didnt expect to be paid, he did require his training expenses to be met... and therefore, no he wasnt expecting his trainers to work for nothing.

[liamlion]

if hatton could sell out a big arena v lazcano, who lost to the guy that witter destroyed (harris)...it just goes to show that witter didn't bring enough to that table of hatton's...

No, youre wrong. Witter brought more to the table than Lazcano (and thats before we even mention the WBC title and that he had a higher profile than Lazcano). Witter was far more dangerous than Lazcano - Thats what Witter brought to the table and Hatton didnt fancy one bit of it! Thats the reality.

Selling a Hatton-Witter fight was never a concern to Hatton for he muted in the early years of this decade that a summer fight with Witter could have be staged at a sold out Maine Road.

hatton was calling the shots whether we like it or not, so it was always going to be up to him

Thats pretty much the situation. Cant really disagree with that.

[mortimeradler]

Show me where I said that.

I don't get involved in long drawn out debates on here because I have other things to do, like a job, and looking after my baby. Hence I make the, usually brief, points I want to make and get on with my day. Fact of the matter is I can't be ar$ed with debating the relative merits of individual opponents. Fair play if that's what you want to do, but it's not for me.

On this subject if my posts are irrelevant just ignore them and we'll both go about our day. And if it makes you feel better you can say your argument was better than mine and I cried off.

You said Witter wasn't "deserving" of a shot at Hatton. So that would lead us to believe that you think Aldo Rios was more "deserving". This has been beautifully exposed by me here and you are no deciding to cop out of the argument. In future, on a message board like this, be prepared to back up your statements.


Mortimer Adler

[mortimeradler]

What did/does Witter bring to the table?

What did Aldo Rios bring to the table?

[Counter-puncher]

You said Witter wasn't "deserving" of a shot at Hatton. So that would lead us to believe that you think Aldo Rios was more "deserving". This has been beautifully exposed by me here and you are no deciding to cop out of the argument. In future, on a message board like this, be prepared to back up your statements.


Mortimer Adler

disappear up your own arse often? what's the view like from up there?

and you make an utterly illegitimate conclusion from matt w's argument. just because he thinks witter didn't deserve a shot at hatton, doesn't mean he has to justify EVERY SINGLE FIGHT HATTON
EVER HAD, Rios or anyone else.

cheerio

[lefthook82]

Thats the long and the short of it@ autobarn. No real upside for Hatton

Kind of getting this with Murray and Khan. Nothing in it for Khan.

Now if Murray fights Prscott and beats him Khan can have him come up in weight to 140lbs beat him and then be able to almost legitamtely cliam that he doesnt need to fight Prescott as he beat the man who beat him

Anyways, not trying to get this thread even more off topic

[lefthook82]

For those who have been following this, has Witter ever chased this fight respectfuly and then only ramped up his rudeness when he couldnt get the fight or has he always ben rude

[J]

shut up shut up shut up

WHO FECKIN CARES.

[liamlion]

Thats the long and the short of it@ autobarn. No real upside for Hatton

Kind of getting this with Murray and Khan. Nothing in it for Khan.

Really??... Credibility as Britain's premier fighter at the respective weight division perhaps??!!

[lefthook82]

Who cares about that these days @ liam?

I remember the LMW debacle of 6 or so years ago, and the similar welterweight shenanigans during the time of Khaliq/Hare etc. Many natural fights were not made and these were between people where the upside wasn't enormusly skewed in one direction like it is with Khan and Hatton
. So if these fights by an large were not made why do we expect any differently years later?

[liamlion]

Who cares about that these days @ liam??

For what its worth, i do.

I remember the LMW debacle of 6 or so years ago, and teh similar welterweight shenanigans during the time of Khaliq/Hare etc. Many natural fights were not made and these werebwteen people where the upside was enormusly skewed in ne direction like it is with Khan and Hatton
. So if these fights by an large were not made why do we expect any differently years later

But because its happened previously, does that then mean that its okay? Personally i just love domestic show-downs involving two good fighters. Imagine the state British boxing would have been in if Michael Watson, Chris Eubank, Nigel Benn and Steve Collins had all decided to avoid each other.

I look at this way, you have to clear up the domestic landscape before you move onto European and World titles otherwise you havent deserved to get such a title shot.

Domestic showdowns between two contenders should be the gateway for bigger things, it shouldnt be so easily bypassed for easier to obtain riches... so when a fighter clearly does this I dont think there is any problem in highlighting exactly what they have done... Matt Macklin is another example. How can he possibly be the best middleweight in Europe when we dont even know if he is the best British middleweight. I know the system allows it and a fighter and promoter will want to take the opportunities that arise but it would be nice to see fighters buck the trend and chase glory (in the sense of being Britian's undisputed number 1) rather than bogus titles or prematurely earned title shots.

[Matt W]

Domestic showdowns between two contenders should be the gateway for bigger things, it shouldnt be so easily bypassed for easier to obtain riches... I know the system allows it and a fighter and promoter will want to take the opportunities that arise but it would be nice to see fighters buck the trend and chase glory (in the sense of being Britian's undisputed number 1) rather than bogus titles or prematurely earned title shots.[/quote]

I agree with this, but as with many things it's best to deal with the world as it is rather than as it should be. The system is as it is, it can be criticised in many ways, and as you rightly say fighters and promoters will use the system to their advantage wherever they can. It's human nature - see the recent MPs' expenses furore as a case in point.

Given this system I won't overly condemn Hatton for using it to make a good amount of money for himself, win titles, and mix with the best fighters in the world. It's easy to pull apart a boxer's record - I prefer to focus on what a fighter did do, rather that what he didn't do. I fully understand that others don't share this view and will forever condemn Hatton for avoiding Witter, I've just tried to point out why I don't - I'm a glass-half-full kind of person.

I'd like to say I'm going back to sit in the sun but I live in Middlesbrough and you can't see it for the smog so I'll continue with my work instead...

[Dioufy]

In a few years no one will even remember Junior, apart from us lot. Hatton will be remembered forever.

[SOUTHPAW]

No your wrong his name will always be linked with fat lads because of the above reasons

[Dioufy]

Hatton is, and will always be a British boxing legend.

[liamlion]

Hatton is, and will always be a British boxing legend.

Rule Brittannia... God save our Ricky!

Fecking hell

[mickey1975]

ricky genuinely will be remembered as our most popular fighter ever,on both sides of the atlantic.unfortunately,its only us lot who will remember the witter saga

[Autobarn]

if hatton could sell out a big arena v lazcano, who lost to the guy that witter destroyed (harris)...it just goes to show that witter didn't bring enough to that table of hatton's...

No, youre wrong. Witter brought more to the table than Lazcano (and thats before we even mention the WBC title and that he had a higher profile than Lazcano). Witter was far more dangerous than Lazcano - Thats what Witter brought to the table and Hatton didnt fancy one bit of it! Thats the reality.

Selling a Hatton-Witter fight was never a concern to Hatton for he muted in the early years of this decade that a summer fight with Witter could have be staged at a sold out Maine Road.

hatton was calling the shots whether we like it or not, so it was always going to be up to him

Thats pretty much the situation. Cant really disagree with that.

I'm never wrong, unless I am wrong on purpose!

If Hatton can get away with a relatively poor name (Lazcano) and STILL sell out, and still be on Sky PPV, then Witter wasn't relevant enough. Sadly, Wicky was a big name, a worthy champ due to Tszyu win, not a particularly good champion, just a big name. We can ask for it, Boxing News can ask for it, Witter can ask for it.

I wanted him to fight Witter, but what do I know, I even bought Wicky v Lazcano. So I in fact helped support the Hatton carte blanche run of fights. Afterwards I realised I'd paid £15 for a pisspoor world title fight, and they never even showed the Jamie Moore fight. That was the last time for me, buying a Hatton fight. I watched the Pac massacre on Youtube and had the HBO version sent to me a week later.

Witter sadly didn't get the fights when he needed them. This hurt his career and his earnings. But he HAS had opportunities, and ended up looking a reet plonker. He fought Kotelnik on ITVsomething, and spent as much time posing as fighting, even when the result was in doubt. He got the Bradley fight on ITV and Showtime (Showbox?) and stank it out again, losing his title. He even got another WBC title shot, and gave up (Alexander). And before that there was the Judah fight. Yeah, he got the fight too early, he had personal problems, he had an injury. But these WERE opportunities and an avoided man should perhaps take this chances better.

In all, I think this era of light welters has been horrible. I've enjoyed very few of Hatton and Witter's fights. Lots of greed, lots of mess, lots of waste. I don't think we missed owt.

[Autobarn]

Who cares about that these days @ liam??

For what its worth, i do.

I remember the LMW debacle of 6 or so years ago, and teh similar welterweight shenanigans during the time of Khaliq/Hare etc. Many natural fights were not made and these werebwteen people where the upside was enormusly skewed in ne direction like it is with Khan and Hatton
. So if these fights by an large were not made why do we expect any differently years later

But because its happened previously, does that then mean that its okay? Personally i just love domestic show-downs involving two good fighters. Imagine the state British boxing would have been in if Michael Watson, Chris Eubank, Nigel Benn and Steve Collins had all decided to avoid each other.

I look at this way, you have to clear up the domestic landscape before you move onto European and World titles otherwise you havent deserved to get such a title shot.

Domestic showdowns between two contenders should be the gateway for bigger things, it shouldnt be so easily bypassed for easier to obtain riches... so when a fighter clearly does this I dont think there is any problem in highlighting exactly what they have done... Matt Macklin is another example. How can he possibly be the best middleweight in Europe when we dont even know if he is the best British middleweight. I know the system allows it and a fighter and promoter will want to take the opportunities that arise but it would be nice to see fighters buck the trend and chase glory (in the sense of being Britian's undisputed number 1) rather than bogus titles or prematurely earned title shots.

Macklin knocked out Elcock, and Elcock was the British champion. Elcock was probbaly above Barker in British top 10 middleweights, even if he isn't as good.

Barker could have fought Elcock, surely. Mick H said he was building up to it, a while ago. Macklin went for the jugular, stopped Elcock early, moved up rather than getting stuck on the domestic scene (something that hppened to his conqueror, Jamie Moore, for quite a long time).

[DG.]

Hatton is, and will always be a British boxing legend.

You are kidding me?

[dondada]

Hatton is, and will always be a British boxing legend.

You are kidding me?

He definitely is, no doubt about it - and so is Calzaghe.

[Dioufy]

Precisely.

[Autobarn]

Hatton is, and will always be a British boxing legend.

You are kidding me?

He definitely is, no doubt about it - and so is Calzaghe.

Hatton?

He made legendary money but my main 2 memories of him are

1) holding onto opponents like a sailor holding onto a mast in a storm

2) getting so badly beaten on the big stage that you wonder how he got there in the first place