Junior Witter/Devon Alexander

[Dioufy]

Of course he is. The Zoo win got in there in the first place, then the Castillo win kept him there, and wins over fellow world champions in Maussa, Urango, Collazo and Malignaggi solidified his position in British boxing history.

Two bad losses, but look who they came against.

[DG.]

He made legendary money but my main 2 memories of him are

1) holding onto opponents like a sailor holding onto a mast in a storm

2) getting so badly beaten on the big stage that you wonder how he got there in the first place

Exactly!

DD

[DG.]

Of course he is. The Zoo win got in there in the first place, then the Castillo win kept him there, and wins over fellow world champions in Maussa, Urango, Collazo and Malignaggi solidified his position in British boxing history.

Two bad losses, but look who they came against.

KT was a good win on paper, Castillo and the rest? Castillo was shot to shit and a lightweight to boot, but an ok win.

Urango etc means nothing and lok what SSM did to Collazo!

DD

[Dioufy]

Collazo fought with a broken hand from basically the start of the second round. And look what he did to Berto. To say that win means little is silly, because Hatton moved up in weight for that fight against a fairly solid world champion. Did Quitter ever do that?

[banjo]

Of course he is. The Zoo win got in there in the first place, then the Castillo win kept him there, and wins over fellow world champions in Maussa, Urango, Collazo and Malignaggi solidified his position in British boxing history.

Two bad losses, but look who they came against.

Who? Pacquiao and who else?

[Dioufy]

Of course he is. The Zoo win got in there in the first place, then the Castillo win kept him there, and wins over fellow world champions in Maussa, Urango, Collazo and Malignaggi solidified his position in British boxing history.

Two bad losses, but look who they came against.

Who? Pacquiao and who else?

Floyd Mayweather jr, at welterweight.

[banjo]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one

[Dioufy]

I'm thinking how ironic your location is, big man.

[DG.]

Collazo fought with a broken hand from basically the start of the second round. And look what he did to Berto. To say that win means little is silly, because Hatton moved up in weight for that fight against a fairly solid world champion. Did Quitter ever do that?

Berto is a work in prohress, a b level champ.


Hatton went up against the WEAKEST at Welter and a non puncher.


Wricky makes money thats why he gets the chances. The boy is a limited slugger - full stop.

[liamlion]

Who cares about that these days @ liam??

For what its worth, i do.

I remember the LMW debacle of 6 or so years ago, and teh similar welterweight shenanigans during the time of Khaliq/Hare etc. Many natural fights were not made and these werebwteen people where the upside was enormusly skewed in ne direction like it is with Khan and Hatton
. So if these fights by an large were not made why do we expect any differently years later

But because its happened previously, does that then mean that its okay? Personally i just love domestic show-downs involving two good fighters. Imagine the state British boxing would have been in if Michael Watson, Chris Eubank, Nigel Benn and Steve Collins had all decided to avoid each other.

I look at this way, you have to clear up the domestic landscape before you move onto European and World titles otherwise you havent deserved to get such a title shot.

Domestic showdowns between two contenders should be the gateway for bigger things, it shouldnt be so easily bypassed for easier to obtain riches... so when a fighter clearly does this I dont think there is any problem in highlighting exactly what they have done... Matt Macklin is another example. How can he possibly be the best middleweight in Europe when we dont even know if he is the best British middleweight. I know the system allows it and a fighter and promoter will want to take the opportunities that arise but it would be nice to see fighters buck the trend and chase glory (in the sense of being Britian's undisputed number 1) rather than bogus titles or prematurely earned title shots.

Macklin knocked out Elcock, and Elcock was the British champion. Elcock was probbaly above Barker in British top 10 middleweights, even if he isn't as good.

Barker could have fought Elcock, surely. Mick H said he was building up to it, a while ago. Macklin went for the jugular, stopped Elcock early, moved up rather than getting stuck on the domestic scene (something that hppened to his conqueror, Jamie Moore, for quite a long time).

No doubt beating Elcock was an impressive victory for Macklin, but their careers were at very different junctions. But be in no doubt Barker is far more younger, ambitious, hungrier and technically superior fighter than the game and tough but aged Elcock.

In reference to Jaime Moore, I don’t think he ever had a more obvious challenger to his status as the domestic division’s number 1 than Macklin has in the shape of Darren Barker.

Even so, Macklin has literally only just won the title, he hasn’t established himself like Moore did – Jesus, Macklin hasn’t even defended the title and yet he’s already ‘moving on’??

If Macklin were to fight and beat Barker, with Hatton as his promoter there is little chance of Macklin being left on the domestic level. In any event the fear of this happening isn’t the reason why Macklin has opted for the European title… the real reason is that if Macklin were to lose to Barker (which is a real possibility) Macklin’s career would appear to have no where really to go. However, if he loses to the European Champion he can always say that he lost to someone who was better than anyone domestically and will therefore be able to come back down to the domestic level.

They often say that defending the title is more difficult than winning it, and in Macklin’s case I think he is well aware of this.

Great shame, yet again for us British boxing fans.

[liamlion]

If Hatton can get away with a relatively poor name (Lazcano) and STILL sell out, and still be on Sky PPV, then Witter wasn't relevant enough.

I dont accept that. Sure, we all know that Witter wasnt wasnt Floyd Mayweather but we also know he was more relevant than the likes of Lazcano - to suggest otherwise is just plain stupid.

Dont kid yourself pal, the fact that Hatton constantly opted not to pick Witter as an opponent didnt signify that Witter wasnt relevant enough but merely that Witter posed far too much of a risk to Hatton and his career.

[Autobarn]

there's another saying:

if you're not moving up, you're moving down

[Autobarn]

If Hatton can get away with a relatively poor name (Lazcano) and STILL sell out, and still be on Sky PPV, then Witter wasn't relevant enough.

I dont accept that. Sure, we all know that Witter wasnt wasnt Floyd Mayweather but we also know he was more relevant than the likes of Lazcano - to suggest otherwise is just plain stupid.

Dont kid yourself pal, the fact that Hatton constantly opted not to pick Witter as an opponent didnt signify that Witter wasnt relevant enough but merely that Witter posed far too much of a risk to Hatton and his career.

i'm not kidding myself. witter brought nothing to appeal to hatton, didn't bring enouhg to make it an essential fight. ok he is british and he was a world title holder.

witter was a risk - notably his southpaw stance and the fact that hatton has never been able to avoid a right hook. the risk combined with the reward wasn't right.

as someone else has said, this wasn't like benn and eubank where each brought something intriguing to the fight. ppl wanted hatton and witter on principle. if hatton could make as much money fighting someone less dangerous lazcano (and nearly gets KO'd in the process), witter was never going to get his chance and probably wasn't going to bring any extra publicity or fans.

it's a reality - fascinating british vs british fights just don't "have to" happen any more because there are always other avenues. british boxers have been a cagey bunch when it comes to weighing up risk and reward: it took practically an undisputed title to get haye and maccarinelli in together, didn't it?...hatton had his "Ring" belt and therefore had carte blanche.

i'm not saying i like it. i'm just saying it's a reality and in the case of hatton v witter we probably didn't miss that much.

[banjo]

Hatton v Lazcano sold out for one reason - Hatton.

He could have been fighting me and drawn over 50,000 to the fight and sold countless PPV's.

[Autobarn]

yes and let's not forget the immortal line:

we could bring in mickey mouse and it would still sell out

greedy, cynical talk that takes the fans for granted. too cozy, too convenient - WBU, MEN, cash it in. makes you happy when these smug little partnerships eventually fall apart.

[DG.]

Hatton v Lazcano sold out for one reason - Hatton.

He could have been fighting me and drawn over 50,000 to the fight and sold countless PPV's.

But after you have had 2 stellas could he handle the Banjo?

Too much risk - not enough reward, someopne easier who will fall over eventually, Dioufy?

DD

[opticald]

[ if hatton could make as much money fighting someone less dangerous lazcano (and nearly gets KO'd in the process), witter was never going to get his chance.

That says something about Hatton as a fighter though, wouldn't you say? The top level fighters want to fight and prove themselves against the best and endevour to do that.

[Dioufy]

If hatton could make as much money fighting someone less dangerous lazcano (and nearly gets KO'd in the process)

Hatton nearly got KO'ed? Are you kidding me, Autobarn?

[opticald]

If hatton could make as much money fighting someone less dangerous lazcano (and nearly gets KO'd in the process)

Hatton nearly got KO'ed? Are you kidding me, Autobarn?

Well it is a bit of a stretch. I saw Hatton on rubbery legs and one stage and remember thinking it was a good thing that the ref was giving him a bit of time (I think to fix the gloves or something?). Who knows what would have happened. But Hatton was never even down in the fight.

[Dioufy]

I don't even remember him on rubbery legs. My recollection of it was that Hatton was buzzed a few times. Some of the Yanks say that Hatton was lucky that the referee didn't step in at one point. And everytime Hatton was buzzed, he fought back aggressively.

[opticald]

I don't even remember him on rubbery legs. My recollection of it was that Hatton was buzzed a few times. Some of the Yanks say that Hatton was lucky that the referee didn't step in at one point. And everytime Hatton was buzzed, he fought back aggressively.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQFHos5jBoA

The 8th and 10th round there.

At 1.14 of the 8th Hatton is on very rubbery legs and takes some shots but comes back strong at the end of the round.

At 1.13 of the 10th round he is hurt again and holding on and looks to the ref to give him time by fixing his shoes, and he gets it.

I think he was definitely on rubber legs there and possibly in the 10th round, MIGHT have gone down if Lazcano was allowed to continue.

[Dioufy]

Thanks for the link. Yeah, it's clear that Hatton's legs do buckle a little bit, but it's he's hardly on Enzo-Macc-legs. I still feel that Hatton was never nearly KO'ed though. Buzzed heavily doesn't equate to nearly knocked out IMO.

[opticald]

Thanks for the link. Yeah, it's clear that Hatton's legs do buckle a little bit, but it's he's hardly on Enzo-Macc-legs. I still feel that Hatton was never nearly KO'ed though. Buzzed heavily doesn't equate to nearly knocked out IMO.

Yeah, I have to agree.

He still had presence of mind to hold and was firing back.

[hitman_hatton1]

he was hurt by lazcano.

no more than that.

certainly not on the verge of being stopped ffs.

[superpunchout]

Bottom line isn- if Hatton fought Witter all those uyears ago there would be no big pay days and the humilating knock out (Headbutting the ring post against PBF and Sleeping for 5 minutes agaisnt Pacman)against PBF and Pacman.


Haton knew it - his team knew it.

Mininmum risk and most money until you hit the big time and get exposed as a limited slugger!


Hatton Vs Witter 2009 - both past it and the gloss has gone from both.

But surely if team Hatton felt that way about Witter ( in that a potential loss would seriously jepordize both his earning potential and public profile) then it wasn't it a brilliant move not to take the fight?

Okay so most of the public now know that Hatton isn't an elite fighter, but he's made so much money en route to demonstrating this fact that he could live off the interest without ever denting the capital.

Retrospectively, wouldn't it have been foolhardy to risk throwing that all away just to appease a minority of critics? Especially as he was (as I'm sure you'll agree) in possession of natural ability that was of a distinctly finite quantity.

Personally I have a lot of respect for Ricky Hatton because he didn't foolishly offer his head to the chopping block at a point where a setback could have done irreparable damage to his future prospects.