hopkins v jones

beduff · Post by **beduff** » 28 Sep 2004, 09:42

would it be a competion?the way roy fought bernard would take him to bits inside 5

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 28 Sep 2004, 09:49

Well isn't this just the kind of well-thought of post/question this site has been missing...

Jeez

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 28 Sep 2004, 09:49

In a way Hopkins has gone some way to proving he's a superior fighter overall to Jones. This year Jones has lost his strength and conditioning, and what remains isn't even good enough to prevent Glen Johnson from knocking him out. On the other hand Hopkins, despite getting older and less busy, is still strong and tough enough to dominate anyone in his division.

I have no problem with anyone who believes the above to be absolute bollocks. I'm a bit suspect myself.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 28 Sep 2004, 10:06

Jones was the ultimate speed machine, everyone is aware that speed and reflexes are the first thing to "go"...

so really we cannot be TOO surprised Jones isnt the man anymore

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 28 Sep 2004, 10:16

When Jones threw punches they still looked very fast to me. The problem was that he couldn't even remotely sustain anything like he used to, and didn't have the strength to work hard when defending himself either.

Workrate, whether attacking or while being attacked, was always one of his best attributes. Now it's gone.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 28 Sep 2004, 11:40

Today, at 160 Jones would be like a skeleton.

Hopkins would walk through him inside 3 rounds, although the fight will never happen.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 28 Sep 2004, 11:48

That's not quite true. Jones was never a high volume puncher in that sense, he never wasted or threw that many shots, except in his early career. However, what he was good at doing was making sure his shots landed, whilst making his opponents miss. Prior to the Johnson fight, Hopkins was the most successful at landing against Jones, and he lost by a country mile! Certainly his work rate has dropped off, but I don't think that's his biggest problem.

Jones has lost the movement which made him elusive, he was like a statue against Johnson, even worse than in the tarver fight. The shot which knocked him out, was one which even 2 years ago he would have anticipated and evaded, you saw him try and move his head, but he left it too late and took it flush. Anticipation is what goes most with reflex based fighters, having relied on exquisite timing for their whole careers, they instinctively break the rules by trying to pull away from shots instead of under or blocking them, and that's the result, they get knocked out. Jones is no different.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 28 Sep 2004, 12:00

Yes but to move the way Jones used to move required exceptional conditioning. To unleash furious combinations on the ropes (which we didn't see once against Johnson) required exceptional conditioning.

Jones was one of the few top flight boxers in recent times who could repeatedly chuck salvos of power punches and not get tired. Now he looks completely burnt out.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 28 Sep 2004, 12:27

Jones Jr is shot like others have already said, he is a fighters that relies on reflexes and timing, for both offencive and defencive moves.

The one foe that no fighter can beat father time has caught up with Jones and his reflexes have dulled.

Hopkins however for whatever reasons wether through training, lifestyle or just great genetics is still near his peak.

If there was a Hopkins - Jones Jr rematch, IMO Hopkins would be very 'up' for the fight and give the faded Jones a beating.

I have no interest in seeing this, 2 years ago yes, but not now.

It's time for Roy to hang up the gloves.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 28 Sep 2004, 12:35

KOJOE90 wrote:Jones Jr is shot like others have already said, he is a fighters that relies on reflexes and timing, for both offencive and defencive moves.

It is my firm belief that the inability of Jones to reproduce anything like his peak level of conditioning is the main cause for him ending up in a position to be KO'd by a fighter with average offensive ability.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 28 Sep 2004, 12:36

jamesmcdonnell wrote:That's not quite true. Jones was never a high volume puncher in that sense, he never wasted or threw that many shots, except in his early career. However, what he was good at doing was making sure his shots landed, whilst making his opponents miss. Prior to the Johnson fight, Hopkins was the most successful at landing against Jones, and he lost by a country mile! Certainly his work rate has dropped off, but I don't think that's his biggest problem.

Jones has lost the movement which made him elusive, he was like a statue against Johnson, even worse than in the tarver fight. The shot which knocked him out, was one which even 2 years ago he would have anticipated and evaded, you saw him try and move his head, but he left it too late and took it flush. Anticipation is what goes most with reflex based fighters, having relied on exquisite timing for their whole careers, they instinctively break the rules by trying to pull away from shots instead of under or blocking them, and that's the result, they get knocked out. Jones is no different.

Do you really think that Jones beat Hopkins by a country mile?

I watched the fight again the other day. I had it 115-113 for Jones.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 28 Sep 2004, 13:30

Hopkins would win now i think, he could purely outwork Jones....but it aint happening, i'm positive Roy will retire.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 28 Sep 2004, 15:35

knockout artist wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:That's not quite true. Jones was never a high volume puncher in that sense, he never wasted or threw that many shots, except in his early career. However, what he was good at doing was making sure his shots landed, whilst making his opponents miss. Prior to the Johnson fight, Hopkins was the most successful at landing against Jones, and he lost by a country mile! Certainly his work rate has dropped off, but I don't think that's his biggest problem.

Jones has lost the movement which made him elusive, he was like a statue against Johnson, even worse than in the tarver fight. The shot which knocked him out, was one which even 2 years ago he would have anticipated and evaded, you saw him try and move his head, but he left it too late and took it flush. Anticipation is what goes most with reflex based fighters, having relied on exquisite timing for their whole careers, they instinctively break the rules by trying to pull away from shots instead of under or blocking them, and that's the result, they get knocked out. Jones is no different.
Do you really think that Jones beat Hopkins by a country mile?

I watched the fight again the other day. I had it 115-113 for Jones.

Thats a crazy scorecard, I thought the judges in that fight where generous in scoring it 116-112. I think I had it scored 9 rounds to 3, which is also the score Larry Merchant also had. Seriously, I can't for the life of me understand how you gave Hopkins so many rounds. Roy was utterly comfortable and even fought with a damaged hand for most of the fight. He was the guy with the power shots. It was a bit like Morales/Hernandez to me in that it was never massively one-sided but their was always a pretty clear winner to the rounds. Bernard himself is not as genorous as you in scoring this fight, he himself said he lost it and you'd think he would score many more of those close rounds to himself.

People always say about that fight Hopkins was not as good as he is today but never mention also that Roy himself was pre-prime. Up until that point in his career Roy was blowing guys out quickly and only went the distance once before, with Jorge Castro.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 28 Sep 2004, 15:49

Well isn't this just the kind of well-thought of post/question this site has been missing...

I'd like to add that it is probably something to do with Roy Jones losing at the weekend.