The Top 20 All Time Heavyweights

[StingLikeABee]

THE TOP 20 HEAVYWEIGHTS OF ALL TIME


Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Jack Johnson
George Foreman
Larry Holmes
Jack Dempsey
Sonny Liston
Jim Jeffries
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Rocky Marciano
Joe Frazier
Riddick Bowe
Evander Holyfield
Sam Langford
Gene Tunney
James J. Corbett
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott
Max Schmeling

The Superior Talents:
Joe Louis is the best technician amongst all heavyweight punchers, the most complete fighter amongst all the heavyweight champions, the best in a combination of boxing skill and punching power. His punching accuracy is the best ever seen by a heavyweight on film. He has speed, power, and explosiveness, some of the best combination punching ever in any weight class of any time. Louis was the complete package. He holds the record for longest consecutive title reign at nearly 12 years and the most title defenses with 25, 21 of those are knockouts, 17 are ten counts, and 5 in the first round.

Muhammad Ali beat the highest class of competition in heavyweight history. He had incredible physical gifts, which were his phenomenal speed, a great chin and razor sharp reflexes. Fundamentally he was flawed having never learned the rudiments of boxing. Based on his athletic ability and quality of opposition I have no problem with Ali being # 1, although I prefer Louis for his superior technical skills and punching power.

Jack Johnson was the near equal of Ali as an athletic talent, the best defensive fighter amongst all heavyweight champions, particularly at glove blocking. He had speed, anticipation and athleticism on the level of Ali. He was dominant and rarely lost rounds in his prime. Nat Fleischer, founder of Ring Magazine, saw every heavyweight champion from Corbett to Ali. He wrote, (Black Dynamite Vol. 4 p. 6), “Jack Johnson boxed on his toes, could block from most any angle, was lightning fast on his feet, could feint an opponent into knots…he possessed everything a champion could hope for punch, speed, brains, cleverness, boxing ability and sharp-shooting." He also said, (50 Years at Ringside p. 84), that Johnson’s “mastery of ring science, his ability to block, counter, and feint, are still unexcelled.” He didn’t face the competition of Ali, but physically he was a marvel of the ring. Highly under-rated by many today.

Jim Jeffries: Jeffries is a bridge between the superior athletic talents and the super-heavyweights. He combined good size with excellent athletic ability. He possessed world-class sprinting speed and a 6-foot high jump. Although he was nearly big enough to be classified as a super-heavyweight he lacked the one shot punching power of most of the other big men. One look at his record shows that he was not a hitter in the class of Liston or Foreman. Stylistically he was a bit crude, but given enough rounds Jeffries might be the greatest heavyweight in history. If he survives the early rounds against any opponent he is a threat to win in the late rounds of any fight. He would be favored over most of the great heavyweights in a fight to the finish. He had an iron chin and was never knocked off his feet in his prime and had endurance to maintain a knockout punch past the 20th round. His best punch was his left hook to the head and body. In boxing matches 20 plus more rounds or to last man standing (fight to the finish) he would be favored against most of the top 20, but in a 15 round fight it is difficult to pick him against some of the men rated above him.


The BEST of the Super-Heavyweights:

George Foreman was a destroyer of the ring. The Foreman that annihilated an undefeated Frazier, crushed Norton, and cut the ring on Ali in Zaire was the most awesome heavyweight slugger in history. Ali did not defeat George by outboxing him. He beat him with his toughness. Ali in his autobiography said George had him out in his feet in Zaire and didn’t know it. If Ali took a punch an iota less than he did he doesn’t survive Foreman. I don’t think anyone else survives the ropes against the Foreman of 73-74. After losing to Ali he changed trainers and began to fight at a measured pace. This was a mistake for him. When he lost to Young he didn’t go after him and didn’t throw a meaningful punch until the 6th round. The Zaire Foreman crushes him inside a few rounds. It is a fallacy to say any clever boxer could beat him. The prime Foreman was a destroyer nonpareil. Very few men would beat the Foreman of 1974. Foreman was the greatest of the super-heavyweights, a freak of nature, he would crush Lennox Lewis inside 2 rounds in my opinion and the smaller swarming heavyweights would meet the same fate as Frazier. His power was such that he regained the heavyweight title at the elderly age of 45.

Larry Holmes: A master boxer, an outstanding ring general with good mobility for a big man and possessed a great left jab. He used his height and reach well and although not a huge knockout puncher, he possessed a strong right cross and uppercut. He also had a good chin and loads of heart. Larry was one of the best technicians in heavyweight history and he was solid defensively and had excellent footwork. His 20 title defenses are second only to Joe Louis.

Sonny Liston: Although only 6’1” Liston had the dimensions of a “super-heavyweight.” His 84” reach is tied for third longest in boxing history with Lennox Lewis. His fists are the largest of any heavyweight champion, 15” the size of ham hocks. Liston had a powerful shotgun jab to go along with his long reach, and he also possessed debilitating punching power with his powerful left hook and devastating uppercuts. Sonny had a strong chin, failing to last the distance only in the controversial Ali fights and towards the end of his career against Leotis Martin. His overall record of 50-4, 39 knockouts is quite good. He was a solid technician in the ring and one of the few heavyweight greats who fought well inside and outside. That cannot be said of too many fighters. Liston was highly avoided and should have been champ by 1960, if not for Ali he likely would have reigned as champion throughout the 1960's as there was no one to beat him until a peak Frazier.

Lennox Lewis: Was a good all around heavyweight champion who at 6’5” 240 pounds and an 84” reach knew how to use his size to advantage. He could box well outside with his long left jab and had a 1st tier right cross that was straight and extremely powerful. He had the size and punching power to knock out virtually anyone. Lennox could be more aggressive at times and was inconsistent in this manner. His chin was not at the highest level as he was twice knocked out as champion. Despite this flaw Lewis defeated every opponent he faced at least once.



The Great Swarmers

Jack Dempsey: The highest rated of the swarming heavyweights. The Manassa Mauler was not only one of the most exciting heavyweight champions in history he was also one of the ring's greatest all time pound for pound fighters. Dempsey has one of the best knockout records in history with a winning streak of 32-0 with 28 knockouts. His 25 first round knockouts are a record in the heavyweight division. Dempsey was a bob and weave swarmer who attacked violently from the opening bell. He could box inside, he could punch, and he could take a punch. He had excellent foot speed and could also maneuver around fairly well for his style. At 6’1” 190 pounds he might be considered smallish by today’s standards but he had the power and ability to knock out much larger opponents as his victories over Willard and Firpo aptly demonstrated.

Mike Tyson: The biggest, fastest, strongest and most powerful of the swarming type heavyweights. His speed and explosive power rate among the best ever. In his prime he also had fine defensive skills. Hank Kaplan wrote, that his “defense is the best seen in the heavyweight division in many years.” In his fights with Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker each man only landed one significant punch in their entire fights. Tyson’s perpetual motion bob and weave was designed to make an opponent miss while always being in position to punch. He was very elusive with his upper body. He was able to anticipate an opponent’s attack, slip their punches and counter perfectly. Tyson was one of those fighters who after winning the title could not stay on the top of his game mentally. While lacking the durability and mental toughness of many of the other great heavyweights his physical talent and punching power is enough to defeat many of them. But because he lost his legacy fights (Douglas, Holyfield 1 and 2, Lewis) he cannot rate higher in a historical sense. One has to wonder if he would freeze up and fold against other all time greats who were not afraid of him.

Rocky Marciano: Although small at 5’ 10 ¼ and 185 pounds Marciano was a tremendous puncher. He was also a non-stop slugger who wore down his opposition through attrition. A classic swarming style heavyweight who never stopped coming and never stopped punching until his opponents wilted. He was greatly conditioned and often set a relentless pace. Marciano’s tough chin and powerful right hand keep him a threat against most opponents. The only heavyweight champion to retire unbeaten and not come back. 49-0 is his legacy. Why he isn't higher: He never faced a 1st tier heavyweight puncher who weighed over 200 pounds. The two best punchers he faced in his career, Walcott and Moore- aged 38 and 42 at the time-had Rocky on the canvas. Joe Louis is not included since when he met Rocky, the Brown Bomber had long since lost his once devastating punch.

Joe Frazier: Frazier was a pressuring, swarming heavyweight who gave 3 minutes of work every round. “Smokin’ Joe” was one of the most aggressive pressure fighters of all time. His left hook was among the best in heavyweight history. Frazier was a willing fighter who knew how to get inside and go to work. He cut the ring as well as any fighter in history. His body punching was unrelenting. He had a heart that would not quit, although the quality of his chin has been questioned against the biggest punchers. His only losses are to Muhammad Ali and George Foreman.



Not Quite Top 10

Riddick Bowe: Bowe was a super-heavyweight at 6’5” 230 plus pounds and with a reach of 81inches. He was also the best infighter among the giants. He had an excellent jab, a strong uppercut, and worked the body very well. But he didn’t dedicate himself the way he should have and lacked proper conditioning except for his peak performance in the first Holyfield fight. The Bowe of that night (Holyfield 1) would be a threat to any heavyweight who ever lived. Beat Holyfield in 2 of 3 contests. Some critics have questioned his chin, but it was solid. His main weakness was lack of a proper work ethic and laziness, which keeps him from rating with the elite fighters.

Evander Holyfield: A good all around performer, “The Real Deal” could punch well, box, move, counter, had loads of heart and durability and was a fine ring general. Not among the greatest punchers but he could finish a man when he was hurt. Holyfield mixed great performances with lackluster ones and his inconsistence performances keep him from ranking higher. Holyfield was a good boxer but tended to abandon defense and slug it out and this would hurt him against many of the best punchers. Holyfield also had a tendency to tire in some important fights including Holmes, Foreman, Bowe 1 and 3, and Michael Moorer fights. The fact that aged (40 plus) versions of Holmes and Foreman could do well with him leaves one to believe that the prime versions would have beaten him.

Sam Langford: Was never a champion nor was he truly a heavyweight at his peak, yet he knocked out nearly every top heavyweight of his era at least once. Perhaps Mike Silver described him best, “His short hook on the inside and his right cross and uppercut were particularly deadly. His punishing jab was also one of the best. He was a strategist who knew how to maneuver, with the ability to explode out of an offensive or defensive position. He could instantly stop when retreating, revert to the offensive, and in the blink of an eye render an opponent unconscious with trip-hammer blows thrown in four and five punch combinations. Langford's every move embodied the technique of a studied master boxer. During his prime he was rarely outfought, out-thought, or out-punched." Langford has more knockouts than Mike Tyson and George Foreman combined. The only reason he doesn’t rank higher is because he was at his peak as a light-heavyweight.



The Small But Clever Boxers

Gene Tunney: The “Fighting Marine” was an intelligent boxer with a nice jab, clever footwork, and solid punching. He also possessed a strong chin and was down only once in his career. Tunney was a master boxer who could find the weakness in any opponent's style and exploit it. Was at his peak at light-heavyweight, where I rate him # 2 amongst all 175 pounders, but he was also a very fine heavyweight boxer deserving a ranking among the 20 best ever.

James J. Corbett: Slick and quick Corbett was a master boxer who at an old age impressed Gene Tunney while sparring. Corbett had great stamina, mobility, and a fine jab. He weighed near or at 190 pounds. He was intelligent and innovative, Corbett is often credited as being the inventor of the left hook. Corbett was also an outstanding amateur winning a Golden Gloves Championship and Seven Silver Championship Cups in Amateur Boxing on the Pacific Coast. He frustrated his opposition with clever out boxing and counter-punching.

Ezzard Charles: The “Cincinnati Cobra” was an excellent boxer who looks very good on film. He had speed of and hand and foot, mobility, sharp accurate punching, flashy combinations, countering ability, and endurance. He was an expert technician. Ezzard possessed a knockout punch until the death of opponent Sam Baroudi, after that he was more content to outbox opponents than really hurt them. He was at his peak as a light-heavyweight defeating Archie Moore 3 of 3. He made 9 successful defenses of the heavyweight title. His chin is somewhat suspect as he was knocked out several times.

Jersey Joe Walcott: Crafty, cunning and possessor of a strong punch Walcott was a master at feinting and counter-punching who also possessed clever footwork. His slick moves, jukes, and perfectly timed counters would cause problems for many a great fighter. The oldest man in heavyweight history to win the title until George Foreman.

Max Schmeling: A very smart counter-puncher with a strong right hand. He knew how to feint and set his man up. He was a good all around performer in the ring. Nat Fleischer regarded Schmeling as the most under-rated of all the heavyweight champions that he saw in his lifetime. Hank Kaplan noted Schmeling had “the best straight right hand, down the pipe and between the gloves” that he had ever seen on film

[yancey]

You've got Frazier too low. He beats the others in the swarmer class with the possible exception of Tyson.

If he sees round 4 in decent shape with Tyson (a reasonable possibility), Tyson is looking for the nearest airport by round 10.

[yancey]

Oh yeah, can't see Jim Corbett beating Ezzard Charles or Jersey Joe Walcott.

[dempseyfire]

Bowe shouldn't be in the top 20 . . .one fight does not an ATG career make.

[I Feel Fine]

In my view... Louis shouldn't be ahead of Ali, technical skills and power are all well and good but different people use different tools and that is not how you rank fighters, Chavez hit harder than Whitaker and Toney had better technical skills than Jones; what matters is results, Foreman shouldn't be ahead of Holmes, Dempsey shouldn't be top ten as great as he was, Tyson ahead of Marciano, Holyfield, and Frazier is comedic, and their being out of the top ten is insulting. Bowe over Holyfield is one-dimensional thinking. Credit for putting Charles ahead of Walcott, but that's about it. Agree with dempseyfire that Bowe is not top 20, agree with yancey that Frazier is the best among those swarmers though I would rate Marciano higher based on accomplishments.
These lists are easier to criticize than they are to make so forgive the constructive criticism. These things are subjective.

[actjac]

Its now hard for me to include Marciano, Dempsey and Tunney in the heavyweights though they fought in their era. They would be dominant today as cruisers but would not match up well with this top 10 heavyweight list:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Jack Johnson
6. Sonny Liston
7. Lennox Lewis
8. James J. Jefferies
9. Mike Tyson
10. Joe Frazier

[SaadOffTheDeck]

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Holmes
4. Holyfield
5. Foreman
6. J Johnson
7. Lewis
8. Frazier
9. Marciano
10. Liston

[Rossman]

EXCELLENT POST, StingLikeABee!!!!

[Goodnight, Irene]

You've got Frazier too low. He beats the others in the swarmer class with the possible exception of Tyson.

If he sees round 4 in decent shape with Tyson (a reasonable possibility), Tyson is looking for the nearest airport by round 10.

Very possible, as I see it, Frazier finishes dead-last in that category. Dempsey & Tyson are each a too-deadly combination of extreme hitting power, fast-starting & excellent finishers to let Frazier out of the early rounds.

Marciano was slower. A skirmish between he & Frazier is an absolute pick 'em.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Tyson would have an early shot against Joe, but it's far more likely he gets slaughtered late.

I don't think dempsey could beat frazier with loaded gloves.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Its now hard for me to include Marciano, Dempsey and Tunney in the heavyweights though they fought in their era. They would be dominant today as cruisers but would not match up well with this top 10 heavyweight list:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Jack Johnson
6. Sonny Liston
7. Lennox Lewis
8. James J. Jefferies
9. Mike Tyson
10. Joe Frazier

You under-estimate all three men.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Tyson would have an early shot against Joe, but it's far more likely he gets slaughtered late.

I don't think dempsey could beat frazier with loaded gloves.

Dempsey's power, speed, & quickness in his assault would overwhelm Frazier. Likewise, Tyson.

Not a class issue, as they're all greats. Just those two hit too hard, start too fast, & finish too well, IMO, to let Frazier off the hook.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Can't see Dempsey ever having Joe remotely close to being on the hook and if he did I have to laugh at him finishing him. Was Dempsey more powerful than Foreman?

[yancey]

Tyson would have an early shot against Joe, but it's far more likely he gets slaughtered late.

I don't think dempsey could beat frazier with loaded gloves.

Dempsey's power, speed, & quickness in his assault would overwhelm Frazier. Likewise, Tyson.

Not a class issue, as they're all greats. Just those two hit too hard, start too fast, & finish too well, IMO, to let Frazier off the hook.

Frazier would punch Jack Dempsey senseless.

[yancey]

You've got Frazier too low. He beats the others in the swarmer class with the possible exception of Tyson.

If he sees round 4 in decent shape with Tyson (a reasonable possibility), Tyson is looking for the nearest airport by round 10.

Very possible, as I see it, Frazier finishes dead-last in that category. Dempsey & Tyson are each a too-deadly combination of extreme hitting power, fast-starting & excellent finishers to let Frazier out of the early rounds.

Marciano was slower. A skirmish between he & Frazier is an absolute pick 'em.

Well, if it is an absolute pick 'em, give me Frazier. I think he would break Rock's face like he did Chuvalo's.

11 rounds at best.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Can't see Dempsey ever having Joe remotely close to being on the hook and if he did I have to laugh at him finishing him. Was Dempsey more powerful than Foreman?

Dempsey's knockout power was not what I would call a long way short of Foreman's (& most around here know what I think of Big George). However, Dempsey's punches were shorter, considerably faster, & more accurate. Look at Foreman-Frazier I. Notice how many punches Foreman actually misses? There's a tonne of shots Frazier avoids.

Shorter, faster, more accurate punches would be delivered by both Dempsey & Tyson. They'd each hit Frazier like a tonne of bricks, for mine. He's just too damn sluggish out of the blocks.

I don't really have a problem with someone disagreeing & stating Frazier could or even would win, but if someone thinks Dempsey's hitting power wouldn't traumatise Frazier, they're deluded, IMO.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Can't see Dempsey ever having Joe remotely close to being on the hook and if he did I have to laugh at him finishing him. Was Dempsey more powerful than Foreman?

Dempsey's knockout power was not what I would call a long way short of Foreman's (& most around here know what I think of Big George). However, Dempsey's punches were shorter, considerably faster, & more accurate. Look at Foreman-Frazier I. Notice how many punches Foreman actually misses? There's a tonne of shots Frazier avoids.

Shorter, faster, more accurate punches would be delivered by both Dempsey & Tyson. They'd each hit Frazier like a tonne of bricks, for mine. He's just too damn sluggish out of the blocks.

I don't really have a problem with someone disagreeing & stating Frazier could or even would win, but if someone thinks Dempsey's hitting power wouldn't traumatise Frazier, they're deluded, IMO.

We couldn't be further off on this one. I think frazier would take Dempsey's absolute best punch and when he finished laughing he would hit Jack harder than he has ever been hit in his life.

I can see an argument for Tyson over frazier. Frazier/Dempsey is a sad mismatch imv. Not only do i think dempsey couldn't hurt him, I think he would get starched pretty quickly.

I honestly don't think Dempsey punched harder than Ali in real terms.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Then you simply don't understand what you're looking at.

I don't mean to come off as rude, but you don't understand how Dempsey hit. No one ever laughed. They grimaced, they howled, they crumpled to the canvas.

No Heavyweight champion in history laughs off Jack Dempsey's best punch. Punched no harder than Ali? Get real

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Then you simply don't understand what you're looking at.

I don't mean to come off as rude, but you don't understand how Dempsey hit. No one ever laughed. They grimaced, they howled, they crumpled to the canvas.

No Heavyweight champion in history laughs off Jack Dempsey's best punch. Punched no harder than Ali? Get real

Maybe after I watch another 33 years of Boxing I will be able to grasp the sport as well as you do. I strive to learn half of what you've forgotten.

Quite a few Light heavyweights stood up to his best shots. I'd like to see how they handled Joe Frazier's. The only thing in a ring Dempsey had on Frazier was the ability to start fast and eye sight. It wouldn't be nearly enough.

Jack was certainly a bigger puncher than Ali comparable to their eras. I doubt it would bother Frazier in the slightest.

[Goodnight, Irene]

"Maybe after I watch another 33 years of Boxing I will be able to grasp the sport as well as you do..." - Saad

That's the last fact you want to advertise on the back of claiming Dempsey couldn't hurt Frazier with his best punch, or, considerably worse, Dempsey, "hit no harder than Ali, in real terms."

[I Feel Fine]

I don't think anyone has to vouch for me as an Ali fan... Ali when he was flat footed was an average puncher, and most of the time he was dancing and moving away which took something out of his punch. Dempsey's power was anything but average. It is true that Gibbons went the distance with Dempsey, but he was moving and holding a lot. If you stood in front of Dempsey you were going down.
Yancey... maybe you didn't intend to, but comparing Marciano to Chuvalo is crazy.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I don't think anyone has to vouch for me as an Ali fan... Ali when he was flat footed was an average puncher, and most of the time he was dancing and moving away which took something out of his punch. Dempsey's power was anything but average. It is true that Gibbons went the distance with Dempsey, but he was moving and holding a lot. If you stood in front of Dempsey you were going down.
Yancey... maybe you didn't intend to, but comparing Marciano to Chuvalo is crazy.

Saad isn't overstating Ali's power, though, he's obscenely under-estimating Dempsey's. In a manner I don't know I've ever seen before

If, if Frazier defeats Marciano, he's going through as much hell to do so as Marciano would to beat him in turn.

In a million fights over a million years, I don't think Frazier or Marciano ever walk over each other.

[I Feel Fine]

I think people today see Dempsey as a smaller guy, as someone above noted, and so they don't understand what a puncher he was. They are perhaps under the same delusion that Jess Willard was under. He and others were afraid that he would kill Dempsey.
I agree about Frazier-Marciano, I think it is a toss up. It is another case where maybe Rocky might land something early, otherwise it will be a battle down the stretch. Maybe Rocky wins a close decision on an early knock down.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Marciano a better two-handed puncher (upstairs, at least), but Frazier with quicker gloves &, I dare say it, a greater output on the back of a faster tempo overall. Marciano dirtier, with a better chin. One cuts, the other swells. You'd never see quit from either man.

How anyone can see this as a blow-out for either guy is beyond my reckoning.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It's no delusion, I think Dempsey is among histories most overrated fighters. He came around at the perfect time and faced very little in terms of opposition. I'm not calling him a bum, I'm saying Joe Frazier is too much for him.

Dempsey's power is comparable to Foreman's and his speed will bother a fighter that fought Ali 3 times and I'm the delusional one?

Hardly, Dempsey has zero chance against Joe. Wouldn't win one out of 100.

The real question is how would Dempsey react to Frazier's shots, not the other way around. And the answer is flat on his back.