Could Mike Tyson have been the greatest heavyweight ever?

[Robinson]

I think Tyson does pretty well in head to head prime for prime match ups.

The word 'Greatest' to many does not really take into account how a
fighter would fare in such a comparison though.

I have found people take into account, legacy, historical context, character
and contributions to the sport as such.

Me personally a fighter is some one that works his trade in the ring, so I
look for the head to head game. And I personally feel a peak Tyson is hard
to beat...by any 'great' of the game.

[Collins2000]

No one saw a heavyweight fighter move like Tyson and hit as hard as he did. No one had upper body movement and use the peek-a-boo style before so how would Ali or Foreman possibly adapt to that before they were KO'd

Probably the same way Buster Douglas did.

[Goodnight, Irene]

"Then this wouldn't be a discussion. No one saw a heavyweight fighter move like Tyson and hit as hard as he did. No one had upper body movement and use the peek-a-boo style before so how would Ali or Foreman possibly adapt to that before they were KO'd..." - Slug

Those men were no Bonecrusher Smith or Blood Green, so I agree it's difficult to see them, "adapting" to avoid the KO, as the above-mentioned fellows miraculously did.

Foreman obliterates him & Ali humiliates him. Those are two pairings with ring legends I give Tyson minimalist opportunity to win in.

[slugadore]

"Foreman obliterates him & Ali humiliates him. Those are two pairings with ring legends I give Tyson minimalist opportunity to win in.

Foreman hit very hard but his punches were wide and he had horrible form. If you view his prime to be around the time he fought Ali and Frazier, then Tyson would have slipped those wide punches (Which he was known for doing) and crushed Foreman who stood straight up, putting him on the floor, just like Lyle did but Mike has ten times the power that Lyle had. I wouldn't say either would demolish the other but you can't say he would obliterate tyson. Many might think Ali was the best but he wouldn't humiliate Tyson by any means. Both men were beaten so no one can say who would win.

[Robinson]

Young Foreman matches up badly against a prime Tyson in my opinion.

Ali has the goods, size, speed and ability to recover to beat any
HW. Tyson vs Ali is a close thing. Either could win in it in my opinion,
but I do not see either stopping the other.

[foxdog1923]

Tyson is not the greatest heavyweight ever my opinion is based on historical context and his legacy compared to, whom I think is the greatest, Muhammad Ali. I would put him im my top 5.
Tyson at the age of 20 was the best Mike Tyson. 20yr old Tyson could have been the greatest but he would have had to stay at that age throughout his whole career IMO.

[Ezzard]

This "he could have been the best ever" topic pops up once every 12 months... I stand firm. Tyson could never have been the greatest. A great fighter, yes, but not the greatest...not even in the debate...but a formidable oppoent who would take some scalps from the greats list.

Tyson's problems were documented way back. The ridiculous fist fight with Mitch Green being a great example. Tyson was unhinged. This gave him his ferocity and his terrifying ring presence. It made him a top fighter but it also made him psychologically vulnerable to someone who could step back and see him as a man and not some unbeatable mythical monster.

Tyson was not messed up by King and Givens. They didn't help but he was always messed up, as the incident with Green (plus countless others) proves. Tyson was built up so much in the public's collective imagination (just as Liston was) that it's impossible to separate the man in the ring from the perception of him as person.

Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Holmes, etc... all got dropped and got up to win in fights. They all overcame tough fights to win. Mike couldn't do this. Even if he'd have not gone to prison, trained like a maniac 25 hours a day and lived like a monk he'd still have not had 30 defences because he was mentally fragile. Boxing is a lot more than simply who punches hardest and fastest.

[BoxBuzz]

Sugadore points out to all of us that Tyson "has ten times the power" of Ron Lyle.

I must admit I was unaware of this bit of data.

[BoxBuzz]

[ Mike has ten times the power that Lyle had. Both men were beaten so no one can say who would win.

I assume this means that Tyson could not defeat an undefeated champion.

[Djanders]

No, Mike could not have been the greatest heavyweight ever...in my opinion.

[Controversial]

To those who said no, I ask the question, why ?

Tyson in his prime had excellent hand speed, knockout power in both hands, very good head movement, and a solid chin.

Because it transpired through his career that he couldn't turn around a fight he was losing, surely essential if we're talking GOAT.

Thats the point though. The reason he got beat by Douglas was because he wasn't training. He was too busy partying etc... and he totally under estimated him. The question was if Tyson was a dedicated trainer and lived the life of a fighter he would have beaten Douglas no problem.

The reason he couldn't turn fights around was because he lost the dedication and interest in the sport. What if he didn't?

[Flump]

To those who said no, I ask the question, why ?

Tyson in his prime had excellent hand speed, knockout power in both hands, very good head movement, and a solid chin.

Because it transpired through his career that he couldn't turn around a fight he was losing, surely essential if we're talking GOAT.

Thats the point though. The reason he got beat by Douglas was because he wasn't training. He was too busy partying etc... and he totally under estimated him. The question was if Tyson was a dedicated trainer and lived the life of a fighter he would have beaten Douglas no problem.

The reason he couldn't turn fights around was because he lost the dedication and interest in the sport. What if he didn't?

Longevity is another factor if we're talking GOAT, at some stage, even if Tyson never lost his mojo, he would have been tested. The next generation (Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe) were better than the fighters Tyson steamrollered in the 80's and I don't agree that the only reason he couldn't turn fights around was because he lost his dedication, there was something lacking in his mentality. The obvious demonstration of that is the Holyfield rematch, things weren't going his own way, and mentally he lost it.

[Controversial]

[/quote]

Longevity is another factor if we're talking GOAT, at some stage, even if Tyson never lost his mojo, he would have been tested. The next generation (Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe) were better than the fighters Tyson steamrollered in the 80's and I don't agree that the only reason he couldn't turn fights around was because he lost his dedication, there was something lacking in his mentality. The obvious demonstration of that is the Holyfield rematch, things weren't going his own way, and mentally he lost it.

Tyson wasn't the same fighter when he fought Holyfield. His head movement had stopped and he stopped throwing combos. He had been out the sport for 4 years and fought 4 fights lasting a total of 8 rounds. Hardly great preparation for someone of Holyfields calibre.

[muskie85]

I personally believe Mike Tyson could of easily been the greatest of all time, however, he blew it. He had power, speed, could take a hit, knew how to fight fast and hard, easily disposed many of his opponents. He was the unified champ. He was the youngest champ ever as well. But after his coach Cus D'Amato died, he went south. Cus was the greatest thing for him. He kept Mike focused, and would of never allowed Mike to get as bad as he did. But no, Mike had to marry Robin Givens, he got cocky and goot humiliated in Tokyo by a 42-1 underdog Buster Dogulas, goes and rapes Desiree Washington, loses time out of the ring and never could recover. The man bit Evander's ear!!!! Mike Tyson made his decisions, and to me, I hope it cost him the hall of fame. He doesn't deserve it. His stupidity, his arrogance, being niave, his mouth, he's not a role model and definitely doesn't have the class to be a hall of famer!!!