Witherspoon-Tyson?

[Rocky Balboa]

At the start of the HBO HW tournament, Jim Watt stated he felt Witerspoon would come out on top, beating Tyson in the final! Obviously, that was not the final & that fight did not happen at any time!

However, if Tyson-Witherspoon happened, what sort of fight do you anticipate? Tim was erratic to put it mildly! I mean, I would be surprised if anyone predicted he would lose to Smith in the manner he did?

I think Tyson would have had too much speed & power for Tim, but if he was in condition & focused, I reckon Witerspoon would put up a competent showing! Its all about what Tim shows up though?

[Counter-puncher]

agree mate, have said for a while, a fit and motivated witherspoon would be a naturally difficult matchup for tyson- he had the chin, power, size, movement, to give Tyson problems IMO. i don't think tim would get blown away agains tyson, actually think his main problem would be getting lazy and being outworked.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Tyson by dec, 7-5 or 8-4, Spoon would come on late. Agree with him being outworked here. Tyson's short stature would be a tough target for Spoon's bread and butter overhand right. Mike didn't use his jab much and that's a punch that Spoon takes away with the best of them.

I would bet the house on Tim against Wlad and would pick him over Lennox. But Mike's wrong for him.

He took a dive against Bonehugger.

[witherspoon]

At the start of the HBO HW tournament, Jim Watt stated he felt Witerspoon would come out on top, beating Tyson in the final! Obviously, that was not the final & that fight did not happen at any time!

However, if Tyson-Witherspoon happened, what sort of fight do you anticipate? Tim was erratic to put it mildly! I mean, I would be surprised if anyone predicted he would lose to Smith in the manner he did?

I think Tyson would have had too much speed & power for Tim, but if he was in condition & focused, I reckon Witerspoon would put up a competent showing! Its all about what Tim shows up though?

Wow. This is new to me. If you remember, during which broadcast did Jim make this wonderful statemant?
I would guess it was the Bruno fight in '86, I have not seen the full ITV broadcast of that, and i was only 8 years old at the time anyway.
For what it's worth, I would have backed Witherspoon, watching Tyson fail to blow out Mitch Green and Quick Tillis would have convinced me that my man would have been too smart for Tyson.
Hindsight is a bitch, though.

[Rocky Balboa]

At the start of the HBO HW tournament, Jim Watt stated he felt Witerspoon would come out on top, beating Tyson in the final! Obviously, that was not the final & that fight did not happen at any time!

However, if Tyson-Witherspoon happened, what sort of fight do you anticipate? Tim was erratic to put it mildly! I mean, I would be surprised if anyone predicted he would lose to Smith in the manner he did?

I think Tyson would have had too much speed & power for Tim, but if he was in condition & focused, I reckon Witerspoon would put up a competent showing! Its all about what Tim shows up though?

Wow. This is new to me. If you remember, during which broadcast did Jim make this wonderful statemant?
I would guess it was the Bruno fight in '86, I have not seen the full ITV broadcast of that, and i was only 8 years old at the time anyway.
For what it's worth, I would have backed Witherspoon, watching Tyson fail to blow out Mitch Green and Quick Tillis would have convinced me that my man would have been too smart for Tyson.
Hindsight is a bitch, though.

Dickie Davies & Watt go review thr scheduled bouts & Watt concludes that at that stage of his career, the only thing Tyson lacks is experience & that's why he tips both Tim & Mike to make the final, but Witherspoon to win because of his greater experience!

I have it on tape!

[witherspoon]

At the start of the HBO HW tournament, Jim Watt stated he felt Witerspoon would come out on top, beating Tyson in the final! Obviously, that was not the final & that fight did not happen at any time!

However, if Tyson-Witherspoon happened, what sort of fight do you anticipate? Tim was erratic to put it mildly! I mean, I would be surprised if anyone predicted he would lose to Smith in the manner he did?

I think Tyson would have had too much speed & power for Tim, but if he was in condition & focused, I reckon Witerspoon would put up a competent showing! Its all about what Tim shows up though?

Wow. This is new to me. If you remember, during which broadcast did Jim make this wonderful statemant?
I would guess it was the Bruno fight in '86, I have not seen the full ITV broadcast of that, and i was only 8 years old at the time anyway.
For what it's worth, I would have backed Witherspoon, watching Tyson fail to blow out Mitch Green and Quick Tillis would have convinced me that my man would have been too smart for Tyson.
Hindsight is a bitch, though.

Dickie Davies & Watt go review thr scheduled bouts & Watt concludes that at that stage of his career, the only thing Tyson lacks is experience & that's why he tips both Tim & Mike to make the final, but Witherspoon to win because of his greater experience!

I have it on tape!

So it was the Bruno fight?
We had no VCR in those days, we got one about six months after the fight, and my uncle furnished us with a tape of the fight.
My lasting childhood memory is of Dickie Davies and Jim Watt beginning this discussion which was cut short because my uncle did not record the entire show!

[hhaehre]

A prime or near prime Tyson would have beaten Spoon like a bongo drum and stopped him within 5 or 6 rounds. When I hear people say "if Tim was motivated and in shape he woulda, coulda .." I have to smile because Whiterspoon was never in shape, not even against Holmes was he in truly great shape. We all know why the Tyson fight never happened, and that should clue the Spoon fans in somewhat as to what would transpire against Tyson. If a crude wild swinging fringe contender like Smith could whack Witherspoon out like he did I would bet the farm Tyson could and indeed would do the same.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

A prime or near prime Tyson would have beaten Spoon like a bongo drum and stopped him within 5 or 6 rounds. When I hear people say "if Tim was motivated and in shape he woulda, coulda .." I have to smile because Whiterspoon was never in shape, not even against Holmes was he in truly great shape. We all know why the Tyson fight never happened, and that should clue the Spoon fans in somewhat as to what would transpire against Tyson. If a crude wild swinging fringe contender like Smith could whack Witherspoon out like he did I would bet the farm Tyson could and indeed would do the same.

Witherspoon had a granite chin and an excellent defense. Jake LaMotta took a dive too, doesn't change how tough he was.

[hhaehre]

A prime or near prime Tyson would have beaten Spoon like a bongo drum and stopped him within 5 or 6 rounds. When I hear people say "if Tim was motivated and in shape he woulda, coulda .." I have to smile because Whiterspoon was never in shape, not even against Holmes was he in truly great shape. We all know why the Tyson fight never happened, and that should clue the Spoon fans in somewhat as to what would transpire against Tyson. If a crude wild swinging fringe contender like Smith could whack Witherspoon out like he did I would bet the farm Tyson could and indeed would do the same.

Witherspoon had a granite chin and an excellent defense. Jake LaMotta took a dive too, doesn't change how tough he was.

Whiterspoon threw the Smith fight did he ?

[Collins2000]

A prime or near prime Tyson would have beaten Spoon like a bongo drum and stopped him within 5 or 6 rounds. When I hear people say "if Tim was motivated and in shape he woulda, coulda .." I have to smile because Whiterspoon was never in shape, not even against Holmes was he in truly great shape. We all know why the Tyson fight never happened, and that should clue the Spoon fans in somewhat as to what would transpire against Tyson. If a crude wild swinging fringe contender like Smith could whack Witherspoon out like he did I would bet the farm Tyson could and indeed would do the same.

Witherspoon had a granite chin and an excellent defense. Jake LaMotta took a dive too, doesn't change how tough he was.

Whiterspoon threw the Smith fight did he ?

No. He took Smith lightly (having easily beaten him before) and came out of his corner unfocused and got caught with a thudding shot to the side of the head and went down. He wasn't badly hurt but couldn't regain his composure and went down twice more from what I recall as glancing blows. The ref stopped it on the 3 knockdown rule that was in effect. This happens in boxing.

It it on Youtube?

[hhaehre]

No. He took Smith lightly (having easily beaten him before) and came out of his corner unfocused and got caught with a thudding shot to the side of the head and went down. He wasn't badly hurt but couldn't regain his composure and went down twice more from what I recall as glancing blows. The ref stopped it on the 3 knockdown rule that was in effect. This happens in boxing.

It it on Youtube?

I've seen the fight and Spoon was tko'ed plain and simple. He was hurt and could not remain on his feet glancing blows or not. I think he was stopped on the 3 kd rule and it was nothing fishy about it.
BTW I agree that Witherspoon had a great chin but so did Pinklon Thomas and Tyson chopped him down. Whiterspoon would undoubtedly be more focused against Tyson than he was for Smith but I really see nothing in Whiterspoon that would lead me to pick him against a prime Tyson. In pure survival mode maybe he could last but he would probably be more ambitious against Tyson than the before-mentioned Smith was when he had his chance.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

A prime or near prime Tyson would have beaten Spoon like a bongo drum and stopped him within 5 or 6 rounds. When I hear people say "if Tim was motivated and in shape he woulda, coulda .." I have to smile because Whiterspoon was never in shape, not even against Holmes was he in truly great shape. We all know why the Tyson fight never happened, and that should clue the Spoon fans in somewhat as to what would transpire against Tyson. If a crude wild swinging fringe contender like Smith could whack Witherspoon out like he did I would bet the farm Tyson could and indeed would do the same.

Witherspoon had a granite chin and an excellent defense. Jake LaMotta took a dive too, doesn't change how tough he was.

Whiterspoon threw the Smith fight did he ?

Pretty much, it was his way out from under King. You don't have to believe him, but he has said as much in interviews. He certainly thrashed Smith in their first fight and was never so much as wobbled by a shot during a comprehensive shutout.

[Ezzard]

I think we all expected a Tyson-Witherspoon final. It would have been Tyson’s biggest test.

Up until the Smith fight Spoon’s chin looked like granite. He had the jab and the skill to keep Tyson off and to take rounds off him.

I’ve heard it said that Spoon threw the fight. I love a good conspiracy…

There were claims that King told Spoon to lose otherwise he’d be testing positive for something. It has also been said that Spoon threw the fight to get away from King.

You might want to say that King wanted the Tyson gravy train and got Spoon out of the picture because he was a real threat.

It was a big shock result at the time. It looks like Spoon gets caught early (it happened to Emile Griffith once). Then he gets clubbed back down 3 times and it’s over. Had the fight continued I’d have backed Spoon to go on to win. I doubt it was a thrown fight but there’s a small chance it could have been.

As to the fight itself. I’d imagine Tyson would outwork Witherspoon to a close but clear decision. It’s hard to say because Spoon liked to work just hard enough to win and no more than that. Tyson on the other hand liked to go flat out against everyone. So stats and common opponents wouldn’t tell the whole picture.

[Collins2000]

Just watched Witherspoon - Smith (2) again after a long time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rN8jL3ylPU

I'd be interested in any thoughts.

[BoxBuzz]

You might not be all that interested in mine...but I'm not shy or thin skinned.

I see this now as I saw it then. A fluke based on a highly motivated determined powerful puncher and a nearly foolishly overconfident superior skilled opponent. Could it happen again? it seems so unlikely. But I know some folks will say this defines the difference between these two...and who can argue with the empirical evidence?

[Collins2000]

I see this now as I saw it then. A fluke based on a highly motivated determined powerful puncher and a nearly foolishly overconfident superior skilled opponent.

Sounds about right to me, Buzzy.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That could very well be the case. I just can't dismiss Tim's words, he beat the same guy 12-0 earlier and never touched the canvas during the relevant parts of his career.

[Collins2000]

That could very well be the case. I just can't dismiss Tim's words, he beat the same guy 12-0 earlier and never touched the canvas during the relevant parts of his career.

Post the quote from Tim and we will discuss it.

[Robinson]

Smith is a big, strong powerful guy. When you have a guy like that
on form coming after you. Hitting the deck is not out of the question/

[Collins2000]

Smith is a big, strong powerful guy. When you have a guy like that
on form coming after you. Hitting the deck is not out of the question/

Especially as Witherspoon loked like he thought he could turn up in any shape and in any mind frame and still win againt a man he had already handled easily.

He got away with a lacksadaisical approach when he fought the predictable and robotic Bruno.

But, as he found out, Smith was no Bruno.

Great win for Bonecrusher.

[Robinson]

Agreed and a guy like Tim always has that power shot.
You could see him hoping to time it, hoping to catch
Smith with it.

Alas, Smith was the better fight that day and sweet
redemption for him.

It is an ashame he did not have the same aggression
or lack of respect as such for tyson some months later.
He may not have won it, but boy it would have been
fun to watch and earned him some fans.

[witherspoon]

That could very well be the case. I just can't dismiss Tim's words, he beat the same guy 12-0 earlier and never touched the canvas during the relevant parts of his career.

Post the quote from Tim and we will discuss it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vapRarmj2rQ

2:30, couple of comments from 'spoon regarding fight in question.
This is a pretty good documentary by Jack Neufield about Don King which features Witherspoon prominently.
There is more of Tim discussing the Bonecrusher fight and the circumstances surrounding it, I cannot be bothered
to look for it now. The documentary is well worth watching.

[witherspoon]

Smith is a big, strong powerful guy. When you have a guy like that
on form coming after you. Hitting the deck is not out of the question/

Especially as Witherspoon loked like he thought he could turn up in any shape and in any mind frame and still win againt a man he had already handled easily.

He got away with a lacksadaisical approach when he fought the predictable and robotic Bruno.

But, as he found out, Smith was no Bruno.

Great win for Bonecrusher.

Don't forget also Witherspoon was preparing for a fight with Tony Tubbs, who he had already beaten (without training seriously, by the look of things). It could be argued that Witherspoon would have got himself in better shape if he knew from the beginning that he would be fighting a big puncher on an impressive streak. It's not likely, though

[Ezzard]

There really ought to be a thread on how Witherspoon could have been the greatest ever HW.

We all agree he was highly skilled but was hampered by poor self-discipline outside the ring. It's a line that seems to work for Tyson...

[The Great John L]

There really ought to be a thread on how Witherspoon could have been the greatest ever HW.

We all agree he was highly skilled but was hampered by poor self-discipline outside the ring. It's a line that seems to work for Tyson...

I think his lack of foot speed is also being over looked. Having said that, I think a well prepared, focused Spoon would have been a very tough opponent for Tyson, but how many times in his career was Spoon well prepared and focused?