Who thinks Pro/Am cards are a good idea?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 02 Oct 2004, 08:22

Once again the idea of having Amateurs fighting on Professional cards is being talked about, partly due I assume to the fact of the recent sucsess of Amir Khan. Last night allegedly said on SKY he had been talking to the ABA's about this very subject.

Do you guys think this is a good idea?

I can see the benefits for the Amateur fighters as they would benefit from the exprience of mixing more with professional fighters etc. Also the wider exposure would increase interest in Amateur sport which can only be a good thing.

But, on the downside would many Pro fighters suffer because of this? Why should a promoter pay for several undercard fighters when he could fill his card with Amateur fighters for almost no cost?

I've heard that Pro/Am cards work well abroad, is this true? The more I think about this subject the more I realise how much this could change UK Boxing.

Any thoughts on this subject fight fans?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 02 Oct 2004, 08:27

I don't know how much cross over interest there is. In that I don't know how many pro fans would be that interested in watch amateur fights at a professional show. I barely watch them myself, but that might just be me.

Jedi Knight · Post by **Jedi Knight** » 02 Oct 2004, 08:28

Sounds good in principle but putting it into practice could be difficult. There may be resistance from existing pro's who may feel that they are loosing their exposure against lesser experienced fighters.

On the other hand it would prepare amatuers, looking to turn pro, in the pro game and would give them a better grounding in their early fights.

I've seen pro boxers still look like amatuers after 10-15 fights. This may nullify this..

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 02 Oct 2004, 08:32

Universum have had amateur fights on their cards which also have been shown on TV as a part of Universum sponsoring the german national team.

We have also amateurs here. Tv showed all (pro) undercard fights live so if a fight ends early they would show an amateur fights a filler.

chado · Post by **chado** » 02 Oct 2004, 11:06

I am going to a pro/am show next week in Namibia when Ali Nuumbembe fights, will let you know what I think, when I get back.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 02 Oct 2004, 17:01

Go Ali!!

tennessee · Post by **tennessee** » 02 Oct 2004, 17:13

here in the states we have them sometimes, i fought as a amatuer on some pro cards, the fans in general liked the event. the amatuers were going all out and the pros at their longer fight pace. it is a good match. we have also had wrestling matches mixed in some. (club events)

knightshadeau · Post by **knightshadeau** » 02 Oct 2004, 19:20

I went to a Pro-Am promotion recently here in OZ. Had a great time. Met most the amatures and took photos of most of them. They all boxed well and gave as much as the pro did, in entertainment value.

tea · Post by **tea** » 03 Oct 2004, 11:10

I like the idea because then i can show every one whos the best boxer from Huddersfield

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 03 Oct 2004, 12:03

The Tyson vs Saverese bill had some of Scotland's best amateurs on the show (including now proffesional prospect Barry Morrison). I thought it was a good idea, especially exhibition style contests that can be used as a filler.

Sometimes, exhibitions can provide the best results. I was at an amateur show in Tenby a few years ago and the catchweight exhibition bout won the fight of the night.

My only problem with sticking the amateurs on the pro shows is the potential for crowd trouble. The amateur game is completely different and rarely as exciting. I believe a crowd of half drunken fans might not appreciate the lack of knockdowns etc and trouble might kick off due to the boredom. Not for us enthuisiast, but for the type of fan who would prefer to start some action as opposed to watch the action unfold. Thats why I stress it should be only exhibtion style fillers.

Another problem is that, even in the Olympics we saw quite a lot of mismatches. Now, I don't know how many of you guys go to amateur shows on a regular basis - but mismatches happen at an even more frequent level in the amateur game as the in the pro's (and we have seen enough of them recently). Watching these mismatches on national TV and exposing the problems with amateur boxing to bigger audiences (both on TV and live audience) cannot be good for the game. Look what constant mismatches are doing to the proffesional game in the country.

If these problems can somehow be eradicated then I'm all for it, the more on these shows the better. But it would have to be good boxing.

maverick · Post by **maverick** » 03 Oct 2004, 16:27

stujones wrote:

My only problem with sticking the amateurs on the pro shows is the potential for crowd trouble. The amateur game is completely different and rarely as exciting.

Blimey Stu you aint been to one of my shows yet

and in the schools last year I thought I was going to have to hire a body guard.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 03 Oct 2004, 17:52

A few years back, 2001 i think, i went to the Scott Harrison v Steve Robinson Commonwealth/British title bout at Bellahouston. Prior to the pro show which started about 6.30 there was a full amateur international show of Scotland against Australia which began at 4.30. This was billed as a pro - am show and presumably had the backing of all the governing bodies concerned.

Admission to the amateur show was included in the price of the tickets to the pro show and because of this they had a very healthy crowd watcing them, certainly more than other international shows Ive been to. the whole thing worked well and everything went like clockwork. the amateurs done thoer thing and then the pros done theirs. Same ring, same set up, same seat numbers etc etc.

The only flaw was that for some reason or other once the amateur show was complete we all had to file out the arena and queue againt o get in for the pro show, having to go back tot he seats we were already sitting in. This did strike me and a lot of others there as a bit ridiculous.

However on the whole, as ive said, the thing was a raging success. I cant understand why its never been repeated

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 03 Oct 2004, 18:40

neil r wrote:A few years back, 2001 i think, i went to the Scott Harrison v Steve Robinson Commonwealth/British title bout at Bellahouston. Prior to the pro show which started about 6.30 there was a full amateur international show of Scotland against Australia which began at 4.30. This was billed as a pro - am show and presumably had the backing of all the governing bodies concerned.

Neil, was this the one with Barry Morrison on the card? I have both the Robinson vs Harrison and the Tyson vs Saverese bill on DVD and you've got me thinking if I have got my bills mixed up.

Definately, Scottish amateurs were telivised as part of a PPV event, but than Scott Harrison vs Steve Robinson was part of PPV bill aswell, so I might have got the bills a bit muduled.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 03 Oct 2004, 18:47

stujones wrote:
neil r wrote:A few years back, 2001 i think, i went to the Scott Harrison v Steve Robinson Commonwealth/British title bout at Bellahouston. Prior to the pro show which started about 6.30 there was a full amateur international show of Scotland against Australia which began at 4.30. This was billed as a pro - am show and presumably had the backing of all the governing bodies concerned.
Neil, was this the one with Barry Morrison on the card? I have both the Robinson vs Harrison and the Tyson vs Saverese bill on DVD and you've got me thinking if I have got my bills mixed up.

Definately, Scottish amateurs were telivised as part of a PPV event, but than Scott Harrison vs Steve Robinson was part of PPV bill aswell, so I might have got the bills a bit muduled.

Barry Morrison fought on the bill as an amateur beating the Aussie Jarrod Fletcher at light welter on points 13-7.

the cheif pro support was wayne alexander beating joe tonwsley in the second round. if i remember rightly joe suffred a broken nose in the knockdown.

Also on the pro bill, Alex Arthur beat Lazlo Bognar in the third round, the ref stopping the fight. willie limmond beating keith jones on points and laurence murphy getting the sme result against leigh wicks.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 03 Oct 2004, 18:51

I think it was Harrison vs Robinson bill after all, as a Welshman a very sad day.

Loynesy · Post by **Loynesy** » 03 Oct 2004, 18:52

If it is done well, surely it is a no brainer? Of course you wouldn't have a school boy 40 kilo fight as the prelude to a Ricky Hatton fight at the MEN but for the small hall/dinner show level they would add arses on seats and bring some atmosphere. Its great that Boxing News have raised it as an issue - if properly applied it can benefit greatly the sport we love

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 Oct 2004, 19:11

chado wrote:I am going to a pro/am show next week in Namibia when Ali Nuumbembe fights, will let you know what I think, when I get back.

Is ali having a fight back home then?

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 04 Oct 2004, 06:08

like loynsey said i think it can greatly benefit the boxing game...
however the ABA being the old tossers they are dont like the idea as it might make them less important!!!!!

A few years ago the Peacock ABC had an amateur show, then completely changed the officials etc and Peacock promotions started a pro show later in the day....

http://www.boxrec.com/date_search.php?y ... m=09&dd=22

The London ABA didnt like it at all and threatened to ban the Peacock ABC....
The event was free by the way

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Oct 2004, 12:18

All part of the reason why the amateur code is virtually invisible.

I think pro am shows are a cracking idea, possibly they are worried that the shows will give promoters the chance to try and sweet-talk amateurs after the shows?

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 04 Oct 2004, 16:27

I don't agree. As an amateur boxer myself, I think the two codes should be split in terms of shows. Training and sparring yes. But not shows.

Apart from anything else why should the pros get paid and the amateurs get sod all for help filling a card up?

The ABAE may have many faults, but keeping the pros and amateurs apart from boxing on the same show is the best stand in giving the amateurs their own identity.

It will only create more pressure on the good amateurs to go pro.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Oct 2004, 16:35

Interesting argument, but how do you keep amateur boxing alive when nobody goes to watch it and it's never on television? amateur boxing numbers have been decline since the compulsory introduction of headguards, and other changes to the sport have made it more like fencing with gloves than fighting these days.

I've been a boxing fan for years, and have written about it for 3, yet most of the time would struggle to name 5 amateur boxers from this country.

I think that without coverage, amateur boxing is screwed, and surely it's better to have the occasional pro-am show, than no coverage at all for the sport?

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 04 Oct 2004, 17:10

interesting thing i heard about one of my local clubs recently. The Sparta Club in McDonald road are actively pursuing local firms and businesses to lend their sponsorship. the difference is that instead of sponsoring prizes for the senior fighters who win national championships etc ie the usual watch or canteen of cutlery type thing, they are seeking firms willing to put jobs or apprenticeships up for grabs as prizes.

cracking idea i thought.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Oct 2004, 18:57

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Interesting argument, but how do you keep amateur boxing alive when nobody goes to watch it and it's never on television? amateur boxing numbers have been decline since the compulsory introduction of headguards, and other changes to the sport have made it more like fencing with gloves than fighting these days.

That was my point, can you imagine the pissed up section of the crowd enjoying it, I cannot see them taking to it and this may lead to trouble.

The current scoring system (if indeed the computer scoring would be included in the pro-am shows) could also cause a rumble with these types of fans. There have been many instances in the televised events that without the scoring being shown or commentary I would give the fight to the wrong guy.

You don't the scoring or the commentary when live and you've got a completely different audience who might not agree with the decision - there is always a danger that things can kick off.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 31 Oct 2004, 10:28

From the BBC.

Looks like it may be happening, maybe??

Promoter allegedly has asked the English Amateur Boxing Association to consider allowing amateur fighters to appear on professional bills.
"The proposal would allow the ABA to keep stars like Amir Khan longer," Warren told the News of the World.

"It would also give exposure to amateur boxers who usually only get coverage at the Olympic and Commonwealth Games.

"I've put on mixed shows in Scotland before - so there shouldn't be a problem south of the border."

Warren also said he would like to see the British Boxing Board of Control, which governs the professional sport, and the ABA merge to bring boxing under the control of one body.

"(The proposal) may also increase the chance of an Olympic qualifying tournament being held in the UK," added Warren.

"Not one qualifier was put on here before the Athens Olympics and that could explain why only Khan got through to the final stages.

"Khan's success has improved the profile of the sport - now it is time to move amateur boxing into the 21st Century."

Warren has offered Khan the chance to sign with him and says he will not insist the 17-year-old turns professional straight away.

The Bolton fighter is also considering an offer from the ABA to remain amateur until the 2008 Olympics.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 31 Oct 2004, 10:43

stujones wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Interesting argument, but how do you keep amateur boxing alive when nobody goes to watch it and it's never on television? amateur boxing numbers have been decline since the compulsory introduction of headguards, and other changes to the sport have made it more like fencing with gloves than fighting these days.
That was my point, can you imagine the pissed up section of the crowd enjoying it, I cannot see them taking to it and this may lead to trouble.

The current scoring system (if indeed the computer scoring would be included in the pro-am shows) could also cause a rumble with these types of fans. There have been many instances in the televised events that without the scoring being shown or commentary I would give the fight to the wrong guy.

You don't the scoring or the commentary when live and you've got a completely different audience who might not agree with the decision - there is always a danger that things can kick off.

Amateur boxing's major problem is that it doesn't really resemble the professional game at all. The paranoia about injury and the ridiculous olympic scoring system, means that is has become fencing with gloves on.

Amateurs have to effectively re-learn the sport when they turn pro in many ways, as they are taught to go for single clean shots in the amateur sport, whereas in the pro game the crteria are completely different.

I cannot think of any other major sport where the amateur and professional codes are so different. Can anyone else?