Classic American West Coast Boxing

Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Expug wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:A World Boxing Hall of Fame embarrassment . . .

Ted "Kid" Lewis

His name is listed by historian Tony Triem among Great Britain's ten top boxers. Few here will disagree.
In the 80's. the WBHOF wisely inducted Ted "Kid" Lewis into the Hall of Fame.

Sadly, for Ted "Kid Lewis and more than a dozen legendary WBHOF Inductees, the confused and disorganized WBHOF somehow "lost" track of their inductees, and many were either reinducted unknowingly, or forgotten altogether.

As the current WBHOF Historian, I was able to dig up many forgotten legends this year.
I had he help of two L.A.'s greatest boxing personalities, who wish to remain anonymous.

Ted "Kid" Lewis will return to the WBHOF "honor roll" this year. So will about twenty other names.
Hopefully they will remain there until the organization folds up.
There may not be a World Boxing Hall of Fame, but these boxers will always be Hall of Famers.
The embarrassing figures who have run the WBHOF into the ground cannot take this from the legends.


-Rick Farris

Thats a shame Rick.
Are there any missing members who are still alive?
If so, would they be included into reintroduction? That might be a bit awkward.

With your increased involvement Rick things will improve tremendously. You are a very committed person.
I hope however that you can get some good support around you.
Its a tough situation . Its difficult when you are serious and want to make a difference and others around you may be ..."less determined" to reach the same goal.

As I mentioned once before, Tony Triem is a real good guy. We spoke through PM a few times.
IfI ever get a chance to talk to him again, I might just mention that we gotta get Benny Lynch on that list. :wink:
Stepping out of a dark Hall . . .

No more involvment, Brian. Just Rog's art this year and I'll attend the banquet to spend time with my Boxrec amigos.
I've fulfilled everything I have promised this year, now it's about something I believe in, and that's Rog's art.
By the way, all the names are long dead. Chalie Goldman, Jake Shagrue, Jimmy Lennon Sr. and others I'll keep under my hat for awhile.
And to answer your question, had I found any living names I would just add them back on the list where they belong. (and do so quietly ;;-))
As for the dead, they can stop rolling in their graves :lol:

Once somebody has been inducted they should never be inducted twice, nor would that be necessary if somebody had done a simple job.
Sadly, several have been inducted twice, Tommy Burns in '91 & '2000. A Selection Commitee "Advisor" tried nominate Lily Rodriguez this year.
I told him we inducted her less than two years previous. Lily Rodriguez posthumously instead of Barbados Joe Walcott? Not on my shift.
Of course, she was already in, but Ad Wolgast, an all-time legend, lays a pile of dust in a pine box forgotten to the world. Ad who? They ask.

I'm part of a different movement with regard to a true boxing museum/hall of fame.
The World Boxing Hall of Fame will eventually be subject to complete renovation, or lost forever.
One too many a Jackanapes on the board of directors, a couple bad apples are spoiling the good work of others.
Something better is on the horizon, good for everybody.

I'll be with Mando thru this banquet, I wouldn't miss it for anything. Expect some ecitement! :oo
Have to tie up a couple loose ends


-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by bennie »

Rick Farris wrote:This was sent sent to me by my friend and fellow boxing historian, Tony Triem.
Tony wrote this awhile back, and like myself is a Yank.
Bennie, Rob, tellboy, Wildhawke, Brits, historians, regulars who would like to comment, please do.

-Rick Farris
_________________________________________________________________


THE TEN BEST BRITISH FIGHTERS EVER

After all, the British invented modern-day boxing, as we know it, in 1867 when John Graham Chambers and his friend, Sir John Sholto Douglas, the eighth Marquis of Queensbury, introduced rules to the game that changed it dramatically. They outlawed wrestling, required fighters to wear gloves, provided for a one-minute rest between rounds and gave a fighter 10 seconds to rise after getting floored.

In the ensuing 140 years, dozens of great fighters have emerged from the birthplace of the fight game, and what follows is one man's listing of the 10 best. It's never easy deciding who gets left off of a list like this, but not everybody can make the cut. If they could there would be nothing to fight about. These are the best of the best.

Jimmy Wilde
131-3-2 (99), 13 no-decisions
World Flyweight Champion 1916-'23

It's hard for fans of any era to properly appreciate a man who fought several generations before their own, but Wilde's greatness shouldn't be overlooked just because it occurred 90 years ago. A fighter's historical value is measured by how well he did against the best fighters of his era and in this regard Wilde has few peers in all of boxing, never mind British boxing.

Look at the record again: three losses in 149 fights, with 99 knockouts. Though Wilde rarely weighed more than 100 pounds he was among the best punchers ever. The Ring magazine placed him third among history's great punchers, behind only Joe Louis and Sam Langford, two icons of the sport. And his mammoth winning streaks are rivaled only by those compiled by Sugar Ray Robinson and Willie Pep. This is where he belongs and it's not close.

Freddy Welsh
73-5-7 (32), 82 decisions
World Lightweight Champion 1914-'17

It's unfortunate that when Welsh is remembered at all, it's as the man from whom the great Benny Leonard won the lightweight title in 1917. And it's true, there are worse ways to be remembered. But Welsh was a hell of a lightweight in his own right and his record against the best 135-pounders of the era proves it.

As his record suggests, Welsh was not the puncher Wilde was - few were. And stylistically he was at the other end of the spectrum, a quick-footed, fleet-fisted fighter who relied on his defense the way Wilde relied on his right hand. But because he wasn't a puncher doesn't mean Welsh wasn't great. He was a superb boxer in an age when the ranks were full of tough, angry little guys who could fight. Welsh was among the best.

Jim Driscoll
52-3-6 (35), 8 no-decisions
British Featherweight Champion 1907-'13

Like Welsh, Driscoll was more defensive than offensive and kept his opponents off-balance with superior footwork, speed, and science. He was a better puncher than was Welsh and to be frank you could swap their places in this ranking without too much argument. The primary difference is Driscoll lost to Welsh via disqualification in Cardiff in 1910, and never won a world title - officially.

Driscoll did everything to champion Abe Attell in their title fight in 1909 in New York that one fighter could do to another without knocking him out, and the so-called "newspaper decision" went his way unanimously. But this was the no-decision era, in which any fight that didn't end in knockout was a no-decision. Attell never gave him a rematch, and you couldn't blame him.

Lennox Lewis
41-2 (32)
Heavyweight Champion 1993-'94, 1997-'2001, 2001-'03

There are those who would put Lewis at the top of this list, but only as a result of a favorable bias toward heavyweights or modern fighters or both. Each of the fighters who rate higher than Lewis has more wins than he has total fights and the breadth of one's body of work, not just its visibility, must weigh heavily in these discussions.

That said, Lewis was a wonderful, mostly dominant heavyweight champion whose greatest strength was his versatility. When facing a big puncher, such as David Tua, he could move and box superbly. When confronted with a weaker man, say Andrew Golota or Frans Botha, he was no less destructive than was George Foreman or Joe Louis. And if this were a ranking of the greatest British heavyweights, there is little doubt he'd be at the top. As it is, there's no shame in coming in fourth.

Bob Fitzsimmons
40-11 (32) 11 no-decisions, 1 no-contest
World Middleweight Champion 1891-'97
World Heavyweight Champion 1897-'99
World Light Heavyweight Champion 1903-'05

You could argue Fitzsimmons' inclusion here, as he fought entirely in Australia and the United States and never in Great Britain. Nevertheless, "Ruby Robert" was born in Helston, Cornwall , England , and that qualifies him in this book. You could argue too that his position as boxing's first triple-crown champion is overrated; the light heavyweight crown, which he won in 1903 by beating George Gardner, was mostly a publicity stunt by Gardner 's manager.

Still, Fitzsimmons was outweighed by 30 pounds when he knocked out Jim Corbett to win the heavyweight title, and was 40 years old when he stopped Gardner . His win over Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil) to win the middleweight crown in 1891 was huge, and, along with James J. Jeffries, who relieved him of the heavyweight belt, Fitzsimmons was one of the dominant fighters of his time.

Ted "Kid" Lewis
173-30-14 (71), 65 no-decisions
World Welterweight Champion 1915-'16, 1917-'19

Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali will be forever linked. That's how it is with Lewis and Jack Britton, who fought one another no less than 20 times between 1915 and 1921, many times with the world welterweight title on the line. They passed it back and forth like it was the plague but Britton wasn't the only great fighter with whom Lewis tangled. He fought all the best fighters at or around his weight including Benny Leonard (Lewis won the "newspaper" decision), and Maxie Rosenbloom (Lewis lost on a foul).

Lewis didn't stop there. He fought solid middleweights and light heavies too, most notably the brilliant Frenchman Georges Carpentier, who stopped Lewis in the first round. For Lewis, even heavyweights, such as South Africa 's Alec Storbeck, whom Lewis stopped in a round, were on the menu. And in addition to holding the welterweight world title, Lewis was, at varying times, the British welterweight champion, the British and European welterweight champion, and the British middleweight champion.

Ken Buchanan 61-8 (27) Lightweight Champion 1970-'72

Like Freddie Welsh before him, Buchanan had the great misfortune of competing in the same era with a physical phenomenon to whom he would lose the title. Welsh had Benny Leonard, Buchanan had Roberto Duran, who stopped Buchanan under dubious circumstances in their title match in New York in 1972. Much has been made in the ensuing years about how Duran never gave Buchanan a rematch, but no less a source than Hall of Fame manager and trainer Gil Clancy, who worked for Buchanan, owed it to lack of fan interest rather than any reluctance on Duran's part.

Either way, Buchanan was a fine boxer-puncher who might have enjoyed a long reign indeed had it not been for Duran's wild tenacity and charisma. As it was, he beat a fine fighter in Ismael Laguna for the title, and defended against Ruben Navarro and then Laguna again before running into Duran. He also beat the great Carlos Ortiz (albeit in the 36-year-old Ortiz' final fight), and future champion Jim Watt.

Randy Turpin 66-8-1 (45) World Middleweight Champion 1951

Turpin is best remembered for his shocking win over middleweight champion Sugar Ray Robinson in London in 1951and it's true that a good deal of it was owed to Robinson's partying and philandering in the days leading up to what he thought would be an easy defense. But there was no such alibi for the rematch, which took place two months later in New York , and it was no easy right for Robinson then, either. Turpin, with his awkward strength and heavy jab, troubled Robinson the way Ken Norton troubled Muhammad Ali and Robinson had to work mightily to regain the title from Turpin on a 10-round knockout.

Either way, Turpin was more than the sum of his bouts with Robinson. He'd won the British and European middleweight titles before facing Robinson, and afterward won the British Empire middleweight title, too. Losses to Carl "Bobo" Olson and Tiberio Mitri appeared to finish him as a top fighter by the end of 1954, but the next year he claimed the British light heavyweight title with a knockout of Alex Buton.

Naseem Hamed 36-1 (31) Featherweight Champion 1997-2001

Many fans scoff now at Hamed, so one-sided and humbling was his points loss to the great Marco Antonio Barrera in Las Vegas in 2001. It ruined him as a fighter and performer but it doesn't erase what he got done before that night; namely, whipping good solid fighters such as Tom Johnson, Manuel Medina, Wayne McCullough, Kevin Kelley, Wilfredo Vazquez and Paul Ingle. And losing to Barrera, who surely will be viewed by history as one of the great featherweights, is no embarrassment.

Hamed's highly unorthodox style and outrageous personality made him a target of the purists, but he made up for technical failings and hubris with astonishing athleticism and punching power. It took a fighter the caliber of Barrera to silence him and if not for the copious amounts of money his popularity and drawing power had made for him up to that point, he'd likely have returned and made some noise still at 125 pounds.

Owen Moran 67-16-5 (33), 19 no-decisions

Moran never officially won a world title, but it's hard to think of another guy who came so close so many times against top-tier fighters. Moran twice fought Jim Driscoll, once to a draw (in Driscoll's last fight) and another to a no-decision. He fought the great old champion Able Attell five times and Battling Nelson too, and Ad Wolgast and Packey McFarland, all the biggest names among the lighter guys in the early 1900s.

Moran had a hard time winning against the very top guys and that's reflected in his record and in his position during the time as perennial contender. But no one had an easy time of it against him. He was as relentless and scrappy as any fighter you could name that came before or after him and belongs among the great prizefighters of England .

A world class list by, obviously, a world class historian.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by bennie »

Britain’s best pound-for-pound current fighter, Carl Froch, defends his WBC super-middleweight title against unbeaten but untested American Andre Dirrell in October.
Froch, unbeaten himself at 25-0 (20), comes off a superb 12-round stoppage of the dangerous and established Jermain Taylor in defence of his title in America in April, climbing off the canvas in the third round to wear down and outlast the favoured home man, who was down himself in the fateful 12th. It was a typical Froch performance: all size, strength and stamina, all workrate, relentlessness and guts, all big right hands, hooks and uppercuts, along with a tantalisingly loose defence. Life with “The Cobra” is certainly never dull. At last the Americans know that.
Now back in his own fortress of Nottingham, Froch won the title with a thrilling decision over the gifted and previously unbeaten Jean Pascal last year, and then came Taylor, so Dirrell, a big, well-built southpaw from Flint in Michigan, will hardly instill any fear into the champion, although he does deserve respect.
Dirrell, 18-0 (13), a sharp boxer-puncher six years younger than the 32-year-old Froch, earned his shot with stoppages of Ohio’s Anthony Hanshaw and Russian puncher Victor Oganov last year. Hanshaw, however, had lost to old man Roy Jones and Oganov to Colombia’s Fulgencio Zuniga, and Dirrell has beaten nobody else of any note. Moreover, Dirrell has NEVER travelled as a pro, although he won Olympic bronze at the 2004 Olympics in Athens (where Amir Khan cruised to the silver). Dirrell still clearly has a lot to prove, and an injury-free Froch is not the kind of man to allow himself to be mentally or physically bullied by anyone, least of all an inexperienced challenger a long way from home.
A clash of unbeaten, ambitious fighters is always fraught with danger - for either man - but in Nottingham, in form, in charge of his division, Froch must be favoured to get to the visitor late on.
telboy66
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by telboy66 »

In my book it's next to impossible to rank the best from different eras all that can be said about a boxer is that he was the best of his time. Nurtrition & fittnes levels are so advanced from what they were in the early part of the last century,boxers of the early 1900s fought more often so did not train for as long between fights now boxers fight far less but the training is more high tec.
All the boxers on the list are most worthy for being called the best of their time.The list could be 100 long & it still would not cover all the British boxers who could lay claim to being the best of their time but it sure makes for some interesting posts
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Bert Gilroy should have been on that UK/Britain list.
Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Bert Gilroy . . .


Alias: Antonio Rea
Nationality: United Kingdom
Birthplace: Airdrie, Scotland
Hometown: Coatbridge, Scotland, United Kingdom
Born: 1918-05-10
Died: 1998-06-02
Age at Death: 80
Height: 5′ 8½″


Bert Gilroy was a Scottish Middleweight and Light Heavyweight boxer who fought between 1933 and 1950, compiling a record of 86 wins (44 KOs), 25 losses, and eight draws. Of the losses, twelve were suffered in his first four years, his novice years, and of the remain 13 losses, seven of them met with documented question or controversy in either decision or circumstances, as did three of his draws.

In his 1959 autobiography Box On, top international boxing referee Eugene Henderson (Randy Turpin vs. Sugar Ray Robinson I), wrote of Airdrie-born, but Coatbridge-based Gilroy: The Coatbridge stylist was, in my opinion the unluckiest champion that ever was. He was affected by the war more than any other boxer I knew, for just approaching his peak in 1939, he never recaptured it once he went into the services.

Gilroy was also one of the gamest boxers ever to enter a boxing ring, given that he was only 5 feet 9 inches tall, and weighed around 12 stones 3 pounds, yet still willing to challenge a peak form British heavyweight Champion like Bruce Woodcock, twice.

Born in Airdrie in 1918 of Italian Parentage (real name ?Rea?), Gilroy came steeped in boxing, with brother Ernie going on to become a successful local boxing promoter in western Scotland. Gilroy began boxing aged 15, in 1933 and soon won lots of fans due to his punching power and the stylish boxing methods that captured the admiration of top Scottish Boxing Referee Eugene Henderson. Inside the ropes too, the Gilroy ring trademarks of style and punch power soon brought dividends.

In 1938 Gilroy became Scottish middleweight Champion by out pointing tough, game, Tommy Smith over fifteen rounds. In his first Scottish title defence against fellow Coatbridge challenger Johnny Clements, on June 4, 1939, Gilroy won in the 13th round against his fellow townsman; and if it wasn't Gilroy's most satisfying victory the same couldn't be said of his next significant victory over Arthur (Ginger) Sadd of Norwich.


GilroyGinger Saad came to the contest against Gilroy in Newcastle in 1940 as a ten-round points conqueror of future World light-heavyweight Champion, the "Bournemouth Lion," Freddie Mills, who paid tribute to Saad's clever boxing skills after their 1939 ring joust. Yet in this British middleweight title eliminator, Gilroy proved himself the better boxer winning the bout over ten rounds to secure a title tilt at the crown then worn by famed Rochdale Thunderbolt Jock McAvoy.

However fate proved a fickle promoter for although a date was fixed for his title bout against fierce hitting McAvoy, Gilroy never kept his ring appointment due to an illness which seriously affected Gilroy, landing the Coatbridge ring stylist in a Military Hospital where it was confidently predicted that Gilroy would never box again.

However those Army medics reckoned without the famous Gilroy fighting spirit. For not only did Gilroy resume boxing in 1941, but he went on to win a second Scottish title in March 1945 by out pointing Jock McCusker for the vacant Scottish light-heavyweight title in Glasgow.

Again, when offered a bout with future French World middleweight Champion Marcel Cerdan in 1947, Gilroy didn't flinch (drying-out to make weight, 48 hours without food or water), and gave a typically game performance against the man who would take American great Tony Zale's World Crown. Gilroy lost by a 4th round kayo.

Gilroy was another of the have gloves fight anybody school, and further proof of this can be gleaned by Gilroy accepting an offer to box future World light-heavyweight kingpin, Freddie Mills at London's Queensberry Club in February 1944. Freddie Mills verdict on Gilroy: Bert proved to be a very game and clever opponent although, after opening his eye in the first round, I put him down for a count of nine. He came back full of heart, and try as I would, I just could not put him away he was just far too clever.


WBHOF PlaqueWhen he fought Freddie Mills that February evening in 1944 London, Gilroy was more used to victory than defeat. By the end of 1944, Gilroy had fought 93 contests of which he had lost only 18 against 67 victories and eight draws. Little wonder then, that Freddie Mills summed up his scrap with Coatbridge ace Gilroy thus: It was Gilroy who got the bigger share of applause and well he merited it. (Gilroy was ahead, pts at the close). Gilroy also fought big Ken Shaw twice in close battles for the Scottish Heavyweight Title. And in his last year was out-pointed by the top British heavyweight Champion Don Cockell, who would later challenge Rocky Marciano for the World heavyweight Title.

Style, gameness, punch, toughness Gilroy had them all, as a third place leading contender for Freddie Mills's British light-heavyweight title, by the now-defunct British boxing magazine Gladiator in 1950 (No.1 - 1939-48), seventeen years after turning pro in 1933.


Quotes
But for the second world war, Bert Gilroy could have well won a World Title! Eugene Henderson

Achievements
Scottish middleweight Champion, 1938-46 Scottish light-heavyweight Champion, 1945-50 No.1 contender UK, middle & light-heavyweight, 1939-48 official title challenge (10 years) - British middle & light-heavyweight titles, though he did not receive a title shot.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Rick Farris wrote:Bert Gilroy . . .


Alias: Antonio Rea
Nationality: United Kingdom
Birthplace: Airdrie, Scotland
Hometown: Coatbridge, Scotland, United Kingdom
Born: 1918-05-10
Died: 1998-06-02
Age at Death: 80
Height: 5′ 8½″


Bert Gilroy was a Scottish Middleweight and Light Heavyweight boxer who fought between 1933 and 1950, compiling a record of 86 wins (44 KOs), 25 losses, and eight draws. Of the losses, twelve were suffered in his first four years, his novice years, and of the remain 13 losses, seven of them met with documented question or controversy in either decision or circumstances, as did three of his draws.

In his 1959 autobiography Box On, top international boxing referee Eugene Henderson (Randy Turpin vs. Sugar Ray Robinson I), wrote of Airdrie-born, but Coatbridge-based Gilroy: The Coatbridge stylist was, in my opinion the unluckiest champion that ever was. He was affected by the war more than any other boxer I knew, for just approaching his peak in 1939, he never recaptured it once he went into the services.

Gilroy was also one of the gamest boxers ever to enter a boxing ring, given that he was only 5 feet 9 inches tall, and weighed around 12 stones 3 pounds, yet still willing to challenge a peak form British heavyweight Champion like Bruce Woodcock, twice.

Born in Airdrie in 1918 of Italian Parentage (real name ?Rea?), Gilroy came steeped in boxing, with brother Ernie going on to become a successful local boxing promoter in western Scotland. Gilroy began boxing aged 15, in 1933 and soon won lots of fans due to his punching power and the stylish boxing methods that captured the admiration of top Scottish Boxing Referee Eugene Henderson. Inside the ropes too, the Gilroy ring trademarks of style and punch power soon brought dividends.

In 1938 Gilroy became Scottish middleweight Champion by out pointing tough, game, Tommy Smith over fifteen rounds. In his first Scottish title defence against fellow Coatbridge challenger Johnny Clements, on June 4, 1939, Gilroy won in the 13th round against his fellow townsman; and if it wasn't Gilroy's most satisfying victory the same couldn't be said of his next significant victory over Arthur (Ginger) Sadd of Norwich.


GilroyGinger Saad came to the contest against Gilroy in Newcastle in 1940 as a ten-round points conqueror of future World light-heavyweight Champion, the "Bournemouth Lion," Freddie Mills, who paid tribute to Saad's clever boxing skills after their 1939 ring joust. Yet in this British middleweight title eliminator, Gilroy proved himself the better boxer winning the bout over ten rounds to secure a title tilt at the crown then worn by famed Rochdale Thunderbolt Jock McAvoy.

However fate proved a fickle promoter for although a date was fixed for his title bout against fierce hitting McAvoy, Gilroy never kept his ring appointment due to an illness which seriously affected Gilroy, landing the Coatbridge ring stylist in a Military Hospital where it was confidently predicted that Gilroy would never box again.

However those Army medics reckoned without the famous Gilroy fighting spirit. For not only did Gilroy resume boxing in 1941, but he went on to win a second Scottish title in March 1945 by out pointing Jock McCusker for the vacant Scottish light-heavyweight title in Glasgow.

Again, when offered a bout with future French World middleweight Champion Marcel Cerdan in 1947, Gilroy didn't flinch (drying-out to make weight, 48 hours without food or water), and gave a typically game performance against the man who would take American great Tony Zale's World Crown. Gilroy lost by a 4th round kayo.

Gilroy was another of the have gloves fight anybody school, and further proof of this can be gleaned by Gilroy accepting an offer to box future World light-heavyweight kingpin, Freddie Mills at London's Queensberry Club in February 1944. Freddie Mills verdict on Gilroy: Bert proved to be a very game and clever opponent although, after opening his eye in the first round, I put him down for a count of nine. He came back full of heart, and try as I would, I just could not put him away he was just far too clever.


WBHOF PlaqueWhen he fought Freddie Mills that February evening in 1944 London, Gilroy was more used to victory than defeat. By the end of 1944, Gilroy had fought 93 contests of which he had lost only 18 against 67 victories and eight draws. Little wonder then, that Freddie Mills summed up his scrap with Coatbridge ace Gilroy thus: It was Gilroy who got the bigger share of applause and well he merited it. (Gilroy was ahead, pts at the close). Gilroy also fought big Ken Shaw twice in close battles for the Scottish Heavyweight Title. And in his last year was out-pointed by the top British heavyweight Champion Don Cockell, who would later challenge Rocky Marciano for the World heavyweight Title.

Style, gameness, punch, toughness Gilroy had them all, as a third place leading contender for Freddie Mills's British light-heavyweight title, by the now-defunct British boxing magazine Gladiator in 1950 (No.1 - 1939-48), seventeen years after turning pro in 1933.


Quotes
But for the second world war, Bert Gilroy could have well won a World Title! Eugene Henderson

Achievements
Scottish middleweight Champion, 1938-46 Scottish light-heavyweight Champion, 1945-50 No.1 contender UK, middle & light-heavyweight, 1939-48 official title challenge (10 years) - British middle & light-heavyweight titles, though he did not receive a title shot.
Thanks Rick.... :TU:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by raylawpc »

telboy66 wrote:In my book it's next to impossible to rank the best from different eras all that can be said about a boxer is that he was the best of his time. Nurtrition & fittnes levels are so advanced from what they were in the early part of the last century,boxers of the early 1900s fought more often so did not train for as long between fights now boxers fight far less but the training is more high tec.
All the boxers on the list are most worthy for being called the best of their time.The list could be 100 long & it still would not cover all the British boxers who could lay claim to being the best of their time but it sure makes for some interesting posts
:TU: :TU: :TU: :TU: I agree, not just 100% but 1000% with the above sentiment. Head-to-head comparisons between boxers of different eras is - in a word - silly. How can you compare Jim Jeffries with Muhammad Ali? You can't. Its enough to say Jeffries was the greatest of his era and Ali the greatest of his, if that's what you believe. :TU: :TU: :TU: :TU:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by raylawpc »

Rick Farris wrote:
Expug wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:A World Boxing Hall of Fame embarrassment . . .

Ted "Kid" Lewis

His name is listed by historian Tony Triem among Great Britain's ten top boxers. Few here will disagree.
In the 80's. the WBHOF wisely inducted Ted "Kid" Lewis into the Hall of Fame.

Sadly, for Ted "Kid Lewis and more than a dozen legendary WBHOF Inductees, the confused and disorganized WBHOF somehow "lost" track of their inductees, and many were either reinducted unknowingly, or forgotten altogether.

As the current WBHOF Historian, I was able to dig up many forgotten legends this year.
I had he help of two L.A.'s greatest boxing personalities, who wish to remain anonymous.

Ted "Kid" Lewis will return to the WBHOF "honor roll" this year. So will about twenty other names.
Hopefully they will remain there until the organization folds up.
There may not be a World Boxing Hall of Fame, but these boxers will always be Hall of Famers.
The embarrassing figures who have run the WBHOF into the ground cannot take this from the legends.


-Rick Farris

Thats a shame Rick.
Are there any missing members who are still alive?
If so, would they be included into reintroduction? That might be a bit awkward.

With your increased involvement Rick things will improve tremendously. You are a very committed person.
I hope however that you can get some good support around you.
Its a tough situation . Its difficult when you are serious and want to make a difference and others around you may be ..."less determined" to reach the same goal.

As I mentioned once before, Tony Triem is a real good guy. We spoke through PM a few times.
IfI ever get a chance to talk to him again, I might just mention that we gotta get Benny Lynch on that list. :wink:
Stepping out of a dark Hall . . .

No more involvment, Brian. Just Rog's art this year and I'll attend the banquet to spend time with my Boxrec amigos.
I've fulfilled everything I have promised this year, now it's about something I believe in, and that's Rog's art.
By the way, all the names are long dead. Chalie Goldman, Jake Shagrue, Jimmy Lennon Sr. and others I'll keep under my hat for awhile.
And to answer your question, had I found any living names I would just add them back on the list where they belong. (and do so quietly ;;-))
As for the dead, they can stop rolling in their graves :lol:

Once somebody has been inducted they should never be inducted twice, nor would that be necessary if somebody had done a simple job.
Sadly, several have been inducted twice, Tommy Burns in '91 & '2000. A Selection Commitee "Advisor" tried nominate Lily Rodriguez this year.
I told him we inducted her less than two years previous. Lily Rodriguez posthumously instead of Barbados Joe Walcott? Not on my shift.
Of course, she was already in, but Ad Wolgast, an all-time legend, lays a pile of dust in a pine box forgotten to the world. Ad who? They ask.

I'm part of a different movement with regard to a true boxing museum/hall of fame.
The World Boxing Hall of Fame will eventually be subject to complete renovation, or lost forever.
One too many a Jackanapes on the board of directors, a couple bad apples are spoiling the good work of others.
Something better is on the horizon, good for everybody.

I'll be with Mando thru this banquet, I wouldn't miss it for anything. Expect some ecitement! :oo
Have to tie up a couple loose ends


-Rick Farris
You'll have to tell us more about this new venture. Perhaps the rest of us could get involved?
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

You'll have to tell us more about this new venture. Perhaps the rest of us could get involved?
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

That's the idea, Tom.
The regulars of this thread, we who have been here for many months, have far greater combined knowledge of boxing (not just "West Coast" boxing) than ANYBODY associated with the World Boxing Hall of Fame.
More important, we are not involved with boxing for our own self-promotion.
We are not front runners and don't live vicariously off the image of prizefighters.

It sounds like a great undertaking, but it really is not.
All that is accomplished thru the WBHOF is a waste of time, punctuated by a disorganized event.
The sad part is that there are some very hard working, devoted and selfless people working for the WBHOF.
The intentions are good for most, and a passion for some.
However, the politicians and front runners have turned the true concept upside down.

The name "World Boxing Hall of Fame" is actually owned by an individual.
It would be nice to keep that name and logo, and go forward with the original plan related to a museum.
However, rather than attempt to "shake up" the WBHOF and eliminate the trouble makers, it would be best to start fresh.
The WBHOF is on a downward spiral. Too many chefs have spoiled the soup.
I no longer attend the board meetings after one of the trouble makers, tried to swing on me.
Things didn't work out for the guy, he bit off more than he could chew and ended up suspended for the rest of the year on top of it.
His action could have taken down the entire WBHOF had I chose to press charges.
You are an attorney, Tom. You are aware of my options in handling such a situation.

Since that day in June, he has threatened Armando Muniz, myself, and anybody attempting to set the WBHOF on track.
"We'll get rid of you two!" he threatened.

We have been tabbed a West Coast Hall of Fame. That is not accurate with regard to inductees, but is with regard to those involved with the organization.
In years past, The WBHOF has had opportunities to be set up within a major Las Vegas Hotel/Boxing venue (such as the MGM Grand).
The insecure board members shot that one down immediatly, knowing that their "boy's club" would be moved from their Los Angeles reach.
Today, I can't believe there is any location in which a true Hall of Fame/Museum could survive beyond Las Vegas. Not in Los Angeles, not today.

Here is a fact that very few are aware of, something that nobody involved with the WBHOF is aware.
The only reason the International Boxing HOF is able to survive is a due to a Federal Grant, that keeps them afloat. The Brophy group, etc. would have folded long ago without the grant.

Does anybody believe that an event held in Canastoga, N.Y. could survive on it's own?
Somebody pays these legends to show each year. Most retired legends are far removed from the fortune they once earned boxing.
Most love the attention and honor, but they can't just drop everything and fly to N.Y. each year just to sign autographs.
We can't expect the legends to do so, even if they are financially sound. We must bring them to the event and it can't be a disorganized mess, like the sport itself.

The WBHOF is a group that started under a very decent man, Everett Sanders. However, in the years that would follow personalities overpowered principles.
Board of Directors began inducting themselves as "administrators", etc.
These weren't boxing people, just fans, wanting to put themselves in the mix with the legends.

Here is the bottom line: It's about the Legends, not the egos of the Board of Directors.
The World Boxing Hall of Fame is best left to fate, and unless the person who "owns" that name is interested in a "new group" taking over, it can never reach it's potential.

After this years WBHOF event, a few of us will explore a new organization that will hopefully put things as they should be.
The World can have as many Halls of Fame as people wish to create, however, ONE should be the real deal.
Museum/historic research center/ gift shop- All close to today's boxing action and major fights.
Boxing fans come to Las Vegas for the big fights. They have a few bucks, while the wife plays the slots, her husband can visit the Museum, meet a few legends on hand, see the robe Willie Pep wore for a Saddler fight, talk to a historian, watch just about any filmed bout via flat screens, settle any arguments or doubts.

Nobody wil go out of there way to visit a Boxing museum in Los Angeles, we have too much here. In Vegas people come to watch boxing, we'll make it easy for them to visit our Hall.
Besides, the WBHOF has never made any serious attempt to create a true HOF. That would require maintenance, and the "good old boys" don't want to bother.


-
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by raylawpc »

Its interesting that we're discussing this because brian and I discussed the WBHOF when I was in Chicago a couple of weeks ago. The IBHOF actually has two things going for it that the WBHOF doesn't: (1) a true "hall" (museum), and (2) a full-time executive director. As you know, I'm a lawyer but my speciality is tax law and my subspecialty is charitable tax law. (I wrote the 800-page American Bar Association treatise on charitable tax planning.) I work with and advise a lot of charities. Based on my experience with charities, the organizations that always struggle are those that either can't or don't have a full-time executive director. The WBHOF will always struggle without a full-time executive director. Organizations run wholly by volunteers - no matter how well-meaning and good-intentioned - seldom succeed.

You are right about Vegas. It would be a terrific place for a boxing hall of fame.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Image

Gunboat Smith vs Jess Willard
San Francisco, May 20, 1913
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Image

WBC heavyweight champion Vitali Klitschko, left, poses with Cristobal Arreola during a media conference to announce their fight scheduled to take place on September 26. (Andrew Gombert / European Press Association / August 21, 2009)

BILL DWYRE
LATimes

Vitali Klitschko, heavyweight champ and Renaissance man, harbors dreams of world domination
The Ukrainian-born boxer speaks four languages and raises millions to help children in his homeland. He foresees a day when he or his brother own all four of the most coveted heavyweight titles.

Forget your preconceived notions, your visions of Mike Tyson-like characters, and meet Vitali Klitschko, World Boxing Council heavyweight boxing champion.

He lives with his wife and three children in Bel Air, speaks four languages, quotes French philosophers, has a doctorate in sports sciences and speaks passionately about the need to improve the lives of people in his childhood home of Kiev, Ukraine.

Klitschko has a foundation that has raised millions of dollars toward that goal and will be his main focus when his boxing days have ended.

He dotes on his little brother, an inch shorter at 6-feet-6 and a similar fighting weight of 255 pounds -- and who holds two other world heavyweight titles.

"He is the closest person in the world to me," Vitali, 38, says of Wladimir, 33.

Vitali says he won't ever fight his little brother, mainly because his mother, back home in Kiev, "might have a heart attack." Another reason, he says, smiling with much more pride than fear, is that Wladimir "is a dangerous opponent."

Right now, the heavyweight division in boxing is the Klitschko Division. That has served the sport well in Europe, especially Germany, where their fights sell out soccer stadiums and bring huge TV ratings. But in the good ol' USA, fans remember the Ali-Frazier-Foreman era and wonder whatever happened to Tyson. The Klitschkos are barely on the radar.

If they are at all, it is because of Vitali's 2003 battle with then-champion Lennox Lewis at Staples Center on June 21, 2003. Two rounds ahead on all three cards after six rounds, Klitschko lost the fight when the ring doctor took a long look at an ugly cut over his left eye and said no mas.

It took 63 stitches to close the cut. Today, Klitschko has no scar and only memories of what might have been, from a fight that created perhaps the most buzz of any heavyweight title fight since Tyson chomped on Evander Holyfield's ear in 1997. Klitschko says the cut had not caused him any vision problems, that his handlers had it under control by the sixth round, and that the doctor summoned to his corner by the referee had been called to look at a cut on his lip, not his eye.

Still, even Klitschko has to admit it was gruesome.

"When I looked at the film later," he says, "I said: 'Oh, my God.' "

He says his wife, Natalie, watching from ringside, was horrified.

"She was sitting next to Sylvester Stallone," Klitschko says, "and he told her this was bloodier than the movie."

When Klitschko fights again at Staples, that memory may actually sell some tickets. That will be Sept. 26, against local favorite Chris Arreola of Riverside, who is 10 years younger than Klitschko and has 24 knockouts in his 27-0 record.

It is a fight that has a chance to return some of the attention to boxing's heavyweights. It certainly has a chance to shine some light on the fascinating story and personality of Vitali Klitschko.

The son of a Soviet air force colonel and a schoolteacher, he moved to Kiev in 1985. It was the year before the nuclear accident at Chernobyl, 100 miles to the north. He and Wladimir were the family's only two children. Vitali was 14 when the accident took place. He recalls his father, as a member of the military, having more information and a better idea of how serious it was, calling home and telling the family not to open their mouths, to breathe through their noses.

"He said to wash our hands a lot, to stay inside," Klitschko says.

The accident happened April 26, and the sacrosanct Soviet May Day celebration on May 1, with children parading through the streets of Kiev, went on as planned.

"We had to go," Klitschko says. "There was no choice." Four years later, one of his friends who seemed completely healthy, suddenly became ill and died within a week. "It was leukemia . . . the radiation," Klitschko says.

He says when he and his brother are together they often get teased for being so big. He says he just tells people they are products of the radiation, that they are "a Chernobyl side effect."

More seriously, he says his father, now 62, has cancer.

In addition to his home in Bel Air, he lives part of the year in Hamburg, Germany, site of many of his fights, and another part of the year in Kiev. All three children -- Egor Daniel, 9; Elizabeth, 7, and Max, 4 -- were born in the United States and so are U.S. citizens. Max was born several days after the death of Max Schmeling, the former German heavyweight champion and Klitschko's friend, and was named for him.

It is Schmeling's influence that brings Klitschko to his third fight at Staples, more than any other boxing headliner there, including one whose statue is out front, Oscar De La Hoya.

"Max told me one time," Klitschko says, "if you want to be a real world champion, you need to fight in the United States."

Tyson had an influence too.

"I was 15," Klitschko says, "and we would find a TV to watch Tyson's fights. In those days of the Soviet Union, fighting professionally was not allowed. Everything was for the state and for the Olympics. But we would watch, and when I saw Tyson win the heavyweight title [at age 20, over Trevor Berbick] and I saw how young he was, I stood up in front of my friends and told them I would one day win that title. I was just a skinny kid and they laughed at me.

"Then, when I won the title, I went home to Kiev and called up all those same friends who were there the night I said that. I invited them to a restaurant. They got there, we sat down, and I took out the same belt that Tyson had won and put it on the table.

"I have a memory like an elephant."

Klitschko fought three more times after the Lennox Lewis fight, then was out for nearly four years after rotator-cuff shoulder surgery. He returned to take back his title with an eight-round technical knockout of Samuel Peter, Oct. 11, 2008, in Berlin. His most recent fight was March 21 in Stuttgart, where he beat Juan Carlos Gomez with a TKO in the ninth.

Of the four most-sought heavyweight belts in a sea of alphabet soup sanctioning groups, the Klitschko brothers have three -- Wladimir the International Boxing Federation and World Boxing Organization and Vitali the WBC. The fourth, the World Boxing Assn., is held by Russian Nikolay Valuev.

"My dream is for the Klitschko brothers to hold all four at the same time," Vitali says.

Klitschko avoids predictions for his match with Arreola, other than one that befits a boxer who has never been knocked down, never taken a standing count and whose 37-2 record includes 36 knockouts.

"I promise one thing," he says. "I do not know who the winner will be, but the fight won't go 12 rounds."

That's as much trash-talking as you'll get from a man who plays chess, ran for mayor of Kiev in 2006 and was once honored by the United Nations for his work as a humanitarian.

[email protected]
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Image

Mike Tyson(revised)

I'm going for the Prozac
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 21 Aug 2009, 20:39, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

BEING ANAL

I've been diagnosed as obsessive compulsive and anal retentive. I've also been called an ass hole. But this compulsive anal thing can drive a guy nuts. Always straightening things out. Arrainging over and over again.Getting it just right. Double and triple checking. Ritual after ritual. Unless you can put this disease to a usefull purpose,you're headed for the loony bin.

I may still be headed for the Hotel Silly,but now that I paint I can channel my sickness into something worthwhile. My painting has to be "perfect." Most of the time after touching and retouching and re re touching,I'm satisfied. In fact I get a little high. I even get horny. Painting is healthy for the ego and the libido. No Viagra for me yet.

But sometimes I'll walk away from the easel with an uneasiness. I'm thinking about something on that canvas that's not right. I think about it at night lying in bed. Driving home from work. Eating a sausage and pepper sandwich. I know the worry will not go away. It's compulsive. I feel like an ass hole.

Today after work I knew I had to look at my painting of Mike Tyson again. Yeah,there's something wrong. What didn't I see? So when I hit the door,it was back to Mike drying on the back porch. I couldn't wait to open that tube of paint. I daubed and dabbed until I could feel at ease.That's much better. The worry went away. I was horny again. So I took another picture of the "revised" Mike Tyson and posted it on the thread.

My wife better not say she has a headache tonight.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

dagosd2000 wrote:BEING ANAL

I've been diagnosed as obsessive compulsive and anal retentive. I've also been called an ass hole. But this compulsive anal thing can drive a guy nuts. Always straightening things out. Arrainging over and over again.Getting it just right. Double and triple checking. Ritual after ritual. Unless you can put this disease to a usefull purpose,you're headed for the loony bin.

I may still be headed for the Hotel Silly,but now that I paint I can channel my sickness into something worthwhile. My painting has to be "perfect." Most of the time after touching and retouching and re re touching,I'm satisfied. In fact I get a little high. I even get horny. Painting is healthy for the ego and the libido. No Viagra for me yet.

But sometimes I'll walk away from the easel with an uneasiness. I'm thinking about something on that canvas that's not right. I think about it at night lying in bed. Driving home from work. Eating a sausage and pepper sandwich. I know the worry will not go away. It's compulsive. I feel like an ass hole.

Today after work I knew I had to look at my painting of Mike Tyson again. Yeah,there's something wrong. What didn't I see? So when I hit the door,it was back to Mike drying on the back porch. I couldn't wait to open that tube of paint. I daubed and dabbed until I could feel at ease.That's much better. The worry went away. I was horny again. So I took another picture of the "revised" Mike Tyson and posted it on the thread.

My wife better not say she has a headache tonight.
Here's the secret, Rog, learned from many years of experience, and it's so easy you'll think "Why didn't I think of that!"

When you go to bed tonight, take two aspirins and a glass of water with you and say to your wife "Honey, here's the aspirin and water for your headache" to which she'll reply with a question mark over her head "I ain't got no headache, what's wrong with you?" The rest is up to you!!

Randy :lol:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

dagosd2000 wrote:Image

Mike Tyson(revised)

I'm going for the Prozac
:TU: :TU: :TU:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by raylawpc »

Randyman wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:BEING ANAL

I've been diagnosed as obsessive compulsive and anal retentive. I've also been called an ass hole. But this compulsive anal thing can drive a guy nuts. Always straightening things out. Arrainging over and over again.Getting it just right. Double and triple checking. Ritual after ritual. Unless you can put this disease to a usefull purpose,you're headed for the loony bin.

I may still be headed for the Hotel Silly,but now that I paint I can channel my sickness into something worthwhile. My painting has to be "perfect." Most of the time after touching and retouching and re re touching,I'm satisfied. In fact I get a little high. I even get horny. Painting is healthy for the ego and the libido. No Viagra for me yet.

But sometimes I'll walk away from the easel with an uneasiness. I'm thinking about something on that canvas that's not right. I think about it at night lying in bed. Driving home from work. Eating a sausage and pepper sandwich. I know the worry will not go away. It's compulsive. I feel like an ass hole.

Today after work I knew I had to look at my painting of Mike Tyson again. Yeah,there's something wrong. What didn't I see? So when I hit the door,it was back to Mike drying on the back porch. I couldn't wait to open that tube of paint. I daubed and dabbed until I could feel at ease.That's much better. The worry went away. I was horny again. So I took another picture of the "revised" Mike Tyson and posted it on the thread.

My wife better not say she has a headache tonight.
Here's the secret, Rog, learned from many years of experience, and it's so easy you'll think "Why didn't I think of that!"

When you go to bed tonight, take two aspirins and a glass of water with you and say to your wife "Honey, here's the aspirin and water for your headache" to which she'll reply with a question mark over her head "I ain't got no headache, what's wrong with you?" The rest is up to you!!

Randy :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's great, Randy!! Very funny!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

raylawpc wrote:Its interesting that we're discussing this because brian and I discussed the WBHOF when I was in Chicago a couple of weeks ago. The IBHOF actually has two things going for it that the WBHOF doesn't: (1) a true "hall" (museum), and (2) a full-time executive director. As you know, I'm a lawyer but my speciality is tax law and my subspecialty is charitable tax law. (I wrote the 800-page American Bar Association treatise on charitable tax planning.) I work with and advise a lot of charities. Based on my experience with charities, the organizations that always struggle are those that either can't or don't have a full-time executive director. The WBHOF will always struggle without a full-time executive director. Organizations run wholly by volunteers - no matter how well-meaning and good-intentioned - seldom succeed.

You are right about Vegas. It would be a terrific place for a boxing hall of fame.

Tom . . . Very good point regarding the Executive Director.


-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

World Boxing Hall of Fame Tickets . . .

Guys, any of the regulars who plans to attend the WBHOF Banquet on October 24 and would like to sit at our table, please let me know.
A good table was set aside for us and the tickets are $100 each.
I have the tickets now, contact me via private message or my e-mail: [email protected]


-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Image

Untitled
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

A DOUBLE DOUBLE

Pete the Cop trains the bomb sniffing dogs for the San Diego Police Department.When they screen the trainers,the most important pre requisite is that they're dog lovers. The dogs that work with the policemen also live with them inside kennels in the back yards. Because of the one on one training the dogs are not allowed to integrate with people or other dogs. The dogs are very close to their trainers.Any moves that might be construed by the dogs as unfriendly gestures towards the trainers can trigger a violent reaction.

The kennel in Pete the Cop's backyard is the home for his German Shephard ,Chief. About a year ago Chief retired. Pete was brought another German Shephard,Link,to begin his training. In the meantime Chief was settled in his kennel enjoying a deserved retirement.

Pete told me that dogs are like human beings in the fact that they are either born fighters or not. You can give them all the training in the world,but you can't instill the courage. The dogs either possess it or they are not allowed to continue to work in the department.

From what Pete told me about Chief was that he was one tough son of a bitch,literally. Chief responded in a whisp and fought to the death. To see him in his kennel with his back legs giving way to dysplacia was bitter sweet. He seemed harmless and happy,but there was no way Pete would let him out of the kennel. Chief still had that instinct to attack when he thought his master was in harm's way.

About a month ago Pete told me Chief was diagnosed with cancer of the pancreas. It was un operable. I'd see Chief in his kennel. Aside from the gimpiness,he looked fine,but Pete told me it was only a matter of time. Pete said ,with dogs the end, will come on suddenly. Then it would be time to take Chief to the Police Department Vet and put him down. Pete said that he would handle that matter with his old partner when the time came.

Last night Pete the Cop had his annual Reno Casino Night Party in his back yard. i noticed Chief wasn't in his kennel. I asked Pete the obvious. I didn't know any other way to pose the question. Pete told me over the weekend Chief went blind. It was his time. Pete said that he did what he always does when one of his long eared pals is starting to let go.He put Chief in the back of the squad car before taking him to the Vet and took him to the drive thru window at In N Out Burger. Chief's last supper was a Double Double with the works.

Pete told me everytime he has to take one of his old partners to the Vet he stops at the In N Out. Pete said he always breaks down.

I'm sure where Chief is now ,in Dog Heaven ,there's plenty of In N Out Burgers.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by JABARDELLI »

raylawpc wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:
This was sent sent to me by my friend and fellow boxing historian, Tony Triem.
Tony wrote this awhile back, and like myself is a Yank.
Bennie, Rob, tellboy, Wildhawke, Brits, historians, regulars who would like to comment, please do.

-Rick Farris
_________________________________________________________________


THE TEN BEST BRITISH FIGHTERS EVER

After all, the British invented modern-day boxing, as we know it, in 1867 when John Graham Chambers and his friend, Sir John Sholto Douglas, the eighth Marquis of Queensbury, introduced rules to the game that changed it dramatically. They outlawed wrestling, required fighters to wear gloves, provided for a one-minute rest between rounds and gave a fighter 10 seconds to rise after getting floored.

In the ensuing 140 years, dozens of great fighters have emerged from the birthplace of the fight game, and what follows is one man's listing of the 10 best. It's never easy deciding who gets left off of a list like this, but not everybody can make the cut. If they could there would be nothing to fight about. These are the best of the best.

Jimmy Wilde
131-3-2 (99), 13 no-decisions
World Flyweight Champion 1916-'23

It's hard for fans of any era to properly appreciate a man who fought several generations before their own, but Wilde's greatness shouldn't be overlooked just because it occurred 90 years ago. A fighter's historical value is measured by how well he did against the best fighters of his era and in this regard Wilde has few peers in all of boxing, never mind British boxing.

Look at the record again: three losses in 149 fights, with 99 knockouts. Though Wilde rarely weighed more than 100 pounds he was among the best punchers ever. The Ring magazine placed him third among history's great punchers, behind only Joe Louis and Sam Langford, two icons of the sport. And his mammoth winning streaks are rivaled only by those compiled by Sugar Ray Robinson and Willie Pep. This is where he belongs and it's not close.

Freddy Welsh
73-5-7 (32), 82 decisions
World Lightweight Champion 1914-'17

It's unfortunate that when Welsh is remembered at all, it's as the man from whom the great Benny Leonard won the lightweight title in 1917. And it's true, there are worse ways to be remembered. But Welsh was a hell of a lightweight in his own right and his record against the best 135-pounders of the era proves it.

As his record suggests, Welsh was not the puncher Wilde was - few were. And stylistically he was at the other end of the spectrum, a quick-footed, fleet-fisted fighter who relied on his defense the way Wilde relied on his right hand. But because he wasn't a puncher doesn't mean Welsh wasn't great. He was a superb boxer in an age when the ranks were full of tough, angry little guys who could fight. Welsh was among the best.

Jim Driscoll
52-3-6 (35), 8 no-decisions
British Featherweight Champion 1907-'13

Like Welsh, Driscoll was more defensive than offensive and kept his opponents off-balance with superior footwork, speed, and science. He was a better puncher than was Welsh and to be frank you could swap their places in this ranking without too much argument. The primary difference is Driscoll lost to Welsh via disqualification in Cardiff in 1910, and never won a world title - officially.

Driscoll did everything to champion Abe Attell in their title fight in 1909 in New York that one fighter could do to another without knocking him out, and the so-called "newspaper decision" went his way unanimously. But this was the no-decision era, in which any fight that didn't end in knockout was a no-decision. Attell never gave him a rematch, and you couldn't blame him.

Lennox Lewis
41-2 (32)
Heavyweight Champion 1993-'94, 1997-'2001, 2001-'03

There are those who would put Lewis at the top of this list, but only as a result of a favorable bias toward heavyweights or modern fighters or both. Each of the fighters who rate higher than Lewis has more wins than he has total fights and the breadth of one's body of work, not just its visibility, must weigh heavily in these discussions.

That said, Lewis was a wonderful, mostly dominant heavyweight champion whose greatest strength was his versatility. When facing a big puncher, such as David Tua, he could move and box superbly. When confronted with a weaker man, say Andrew Golota or Frans Botha, he was no less destructive than was George Foreman or Joe Louis. And if this were a ranking of the greatest British heavyweights, there is little doubt he'd be at the top. As it is, there's no shame in coming in fourth.

Bob Fitzsimmons
40-11 (32) 11 no-decisions, 1 no-contest
World Middleweight Champion 1891-'97
World Heavyweight Champion 1897-'99
World Light Heavyweight Champion 1903-'05

You could argue Fitzsimmons' inclusion here, as he fought entirely in Australia and the United States and never in Great Britain. Nevertheless, "Ruby Robert" was born in Helston, Cornwall , England , and that qualifies him in this book. You could argue too that his position as boxing's first triple-crown champion is overrated; the light heavyweight crown, which he won in 1903 by beating George Gardner, was mostly a publicity stunt by Gardner 's manager.

Still, Fitzsimmons was outweighed by 30 pounds when he knocked out Jim Corbett to win the heavyweight title, and was 40 years old when he stopped Gardner . His win over Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil) to win the middleweight crown in 1891 was huge, and, along with James J. Jeffries, who relieved him of the heavyweight belt, Fitzsimmons was one of the dominant fighters of his time.

Ted "Kid" Lewis
173-30-14 (71), 65 no-decisions
World Welterweight Champion 1915-'16, 1917-'19

Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali will be forever linked. That's how it is with Lewis and Jack Britton, who fought one another no less than 20 times between 1915 and 1921, many times with the world welterweight title on the line. They passed it back and forth like it was the plague but Britton wasn't the only great fighter with whom Lewis tangled. He fought all the best fighters at or around his weight including Benny Leonard (Lewis won the "newspaper" decision), and Maxie Rosenbloom (Lewis lost on a foul).

Lewis didn't stop there. He fought solid middleweights and light heavies too, most notably the brilliant Frenchman Georges Carpentier, who stopped Lewis in the first round. For Lewis, even heavyweights, such as South Africa 's Alec Storbeck, whom Lewis stopped in a round, were on the menu. And in addition to holding the welterweight world title, Lewis was, at varying times, the British welterweight champion, the British and European welterweight champion, and the British middleweight champion.

Ken Buchanan 61-8 (27) Lightweight Champion 1970-'72

Like Freddie Welsh before him, Buchanan had the great misfortune of competing in the same era with a physical phenomenon to whom he would lose the title. Welsh had Benny Leonard, Buchanan had Roberto Duran, who stopped Buchanan under dubious circumstances in their title match in New York in 1972. Much has been made in the ensuing years about how Duran never gave Buchanan a rematch, but no less a source than Hall of Fame manager and trainer Gil Clancy, who worked for Buchanan, owed it to lack of fan interest rather than any reluctance on Duran's part.

Either way, Buchanan was a fine boxer-puncher who might have enjoyed a long reign indeed had it not been for Duran's wild tenacity and charisma. As it was, he beat a fine fighter in Ismael Laguna for the title, and defended against Ruben Navarro and then Laguna again before running into Duran. He also beat the great Carlos Ortiz (albeit in the 36-year-old Ortiz' final fight), and future champion Jim Watt.

Randy Turpin 66-8-1 (45) World Middleweight Champion 1951

Turpin is best remembered for his shocking win over middleweight champion Sugar Ray Robinson in London in 1951and it's true that a good deal of it was owed to Robinson's partying and philandering in the days leading up to what he thought would be an easy defense. But there was no such alibi for the rematch, which took place two months later in New York , and it was no easy right for Robinson then, either. Turpin, with his awkward strength and heavy jab, troubled Robinson the way Ken Norton troubled Muhammad Ali and Robinson had to work mightily to regain the title from Turpin on a 10-round knockout.

Either way, Turpin was more than the sum of his bouts with Robinson. He'd won the British and European middleweight titles before facing Robinson, and afterward won the British Empire middleweight title, too. Losses to Carl "Bobo" Olson and Tiberio Mitri appeared to finish him as a top fighter by the end of 1954, but the next year he claimed the British light heavyweight title with a knockout of Alex Buton.

Naseem Hamed 36-1 (31) Featherweight Champion 1997-2001

Many fans scoff now at Hamed, so one-sided and humbling was his points loss to the great Marco Antonio Barrera in Las Vegas in 2001. It ruined him as a fighter and performer but it doesn't erase what he got done before that night; namely, whipping good solid fighters such as Tom Johnson, Manuel Medina, Wayne McCullough, Kevin Kelley, Wilfredo Vazquez and Paul Ingle. And losing to Barrera, who surely will be viewed by history as one of the great featherweights, is no embarrassment.

Hamed's highly unorthodox style and outrageous personality made him a target of the purists, but he made up for technical failings and hubris with astonishing athleticism and punching power. It took a fighter the caliber of Barrera to silence him and if not for the copious amounts of money his popularity and drawing power had made for him up to that point, he'd likely have returned and made some noise still at 125 pounds.

Owen Moran 67-16-5 (33), 19 no-decisions

Moran never officially won a world title, but it's hard to think of another guy who came so close so many times against top-tier fighters. Moran twice fought Jim Driscoll, once to a draw (in Driscoll's last fight) and another to a no-decision. He fought the great old champion Able Attell five times and Battling Nelson too, and Ad Wolgast and Packey McFarland, all the biggest names among the lighter guys in the early 1900s.

Moran had a hard time winning against the very top guys and that's reflected in his record and in his position during the time as perennial contender. But no one had an easy time of it against him. He was as relentless and scrappy as any fighter you could name that came before or after him and belongs among the great prizefighters of England .


Its a great list . . . as long as its not in any particular order.

All I see is names, not numbers. He listed ten he thought were the best, but I see no particular order or reason for such.

-Rick

Rick and Tom --- This list is a ranking of the Ten Greatest Fighters from the British Empire. Tony Triem reveals that it was so intended when he writes within the Lennox Lewis coverage -- "And if this were a ranking of the greatest British heavyweights, there is little doubt he'd be at the top. As it is, there's no shame in coming in fourth."

Trying to come up with any list is a daunting task and the writer who does so is saying ---"I'm not afraid to lay it on the line. How about you, reader?"

However, in examining Tony Triem's challenging list and seeing what might constitute some omissions, one has to ask --- Where does he place Jem Mace --- Peter Jackson --- Len Wickwar --- Joe Calzahge ---. Food for thought gents!

John A. Bardelli
Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Len Wickwar . . .

Name: Len Wickwar
Nationality: United Kingdom
Hometown: Leicester, Leicestershire, United Kingdom
Born: 1911-03-11
Manager: George Biddles

Wickwar is believed to have had more bouts than any boxer in history (465). At the very least he has more than any boxer in the BoxRec database. With 337 wins, he has more victories than any boxer that can be found in the database as well.

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