HW tournament.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 30 Aug 2009, 01:53

It is amusing seeing the Holmes people trying to stick it to Ali for a couple of gifts. Tell it to Carl Williams and Jesse Ferguson.
It is also amusing seeing gambler laugh at the possibility that one of the fighters that he selected could win. I agree that Moorer has little to no chance, but why make him a part of this exercise if that is the case...

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 30 Aug 2009, 01:57

IFF

I feel honored that you have me amongst the ranks of the "Holmes people".

That is the nicest thing you have said to me.
Thank you :)

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 30 Aug 2009, 02:48

I Feel Fine wrote:It is amusing seeing the Holmes people trying to stick it to Ali for a couple of gifts. Tell it to Carl Williams and Jesse Ferguson.
It is also amusing seeing gambler laugh at the possibility that one of the fighters that he selected could win. I agree that Moorer has little to no chance, but why make him a part of this exercise if that is the case...

IFF, you don't need to spend your time pulling down Holmes to try and biggy up Ali.

Both were the, by far, most dominant heavies of their era and BOTH were great fighters.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 30 Aug 2009, 03:05

I don't think it is fair to say that I pull down Holmes. I rate Holmes as a top three or four all time Heavyweight. But lets get serious here, some would have you believe that Ali got half a dozen gifts and that Holmes got none; in reality Ali got two or three as an old fighter and so did Holmes. The only difference is that Holmes got robbed against Spinks the second time.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 30 Aug 2009, 04:28

I Feel Fine wrote:I don't think it is fair to say that I pull down Holmes. I rate Holmes as a top three or four all time Heavyweight.

Come on, man. Almost every one of your defences of Ali involves a dig at Holmes.

Both were great fighters, The best heavyweights of their era. In Ali's case, the best of two eras.

To defend Ali shouldn't involve digs at Holmes.

In fact, why are you even wasting your time 'defending' Ali against clowns like BRR and Lard Arse Irene? Do you think haters like them are suddenly going to see the light?

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 30 Aug 2009, 05:52

I don't agree Collins, if you look at that other thread that BRR started a lot of my comments were in defense of Holmes. My reason for going at Holmes here is pretty obvious; it is unfair for Holmes to be in his prime and for Ali to be in what was really his last good year. A couple of people made comments about the judges, as though Ali didn't lose four decisions and as though Holmes never got a break, so obviously there was a reason to respond to that. I've seen most of Holmes' fights, I generally like watching Holmes, I rank Holmes as the best Heavyweight of all time next to Ali and Louis, so I don't think it is fair to say that I am unfair to Holmes. But when Ali gets criticized for something that has a parallel to Holmes' career I am probably going to mention it if Holmes does not get the same scrutiny, especially when the criticism is coming from Holmes die hards. That is only natural. If someone were to say, for instance, that Holmes sucks because he had a tough time with Norton... it would be only natural for a Holmes fan to respond that Ali did as well. Why would it be thought, then, that I wouldn't comment when seeing Ali criticized for something that could also be said of Holmes? I think it is worth mentioning, and I think it is worth mentioning that while 1975 Ali may lose to 1980 Holmes, that Ali was still better at 33 than Holmes was at that age.
I agree that the BRR discussion was a waste of time, probably more of an ego thing than an actual debate. I don't think it is fair to compare GI to BRR.

BroughtonRulesRefuge · Post by **BroughtonRulesRefuge** » 30 Aug 2009, 13:23

I Feel Fine wrote: I agree that the BRR discussion was a waste of time, probably more of an ego thing than an actual debate. I don't think it is fair to compare GI to BRR.

- Already well established that your Potty mouth was already the standard comparison to GI tract.

Probably more of a taste thing than an actual debate since you prefer the fudge of opinions than providing actual context and content to debate.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 30 Aug 2009, 14:01

I think our individual records for providing context and content speak for themselves.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 30 Aug 2009, 15:45

I Feel Fine wrote:I don't think it is fair to compare GI to BRR.

True. BRR doesn't resort to PMing the hell out of me now I have him on ignore. I can't say the same for Irene.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 30 Aug 2009, 16:09

Well I'm not going to get into that, but I don't think it is fair for you to pick that one sentence out of my post and not acknowledge everything else that I said. How can I be accused of not being fair to Holmes when I think he is a top three Heavyweight and when I said that I like his fights and when I have defended him from unfair criticism?

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 30 Aug 2009, 17:04

I Feel Fine wrote:Well I'm not going to get into that, but I don't think it is fair for you to pick that one sentence out of my post and not acknowledge everything else that I said. How can I be accused of not being fair to Holmes when I think he is a top three Heavyweight and when I said that I like his fights and when I have defended him from unfair criticism?

Top 3 now? Excellent. He was only "top 3 or 4" when you posted yesterday. He's moving up or, at least, consolidating his spot!

Then again, Lard Arse Irene claims to have Ali as #1 on her heavyweight list but loves nothing better than whining about all the gifts he got (and sending me PMs, of course).

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 30 Aug 2009, 17:08

This is silly Collins, I defended Holmes a lot in the other thread, I don't need to hear this.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 30 Aug 2009, 17:12

I Feel Fine wrote:This is silly Collins, I defended Holmes a lot in the other thread, I don't need to hear this.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 30 Aug 2009, 17:14

Why is that funny? Are you saying that I didn't defend Holmes? I stated that Holmes was robbed against Spinks the second time, that Holmes was old and inactive when Tyson beat him and that the win says little, that Holmes in his prime would have probably beaten Tyson and that Holmes was better in later fights against Mercer and Holyfield where he was more active. I also stated that Holmes' title reign was better than Tyson's or Ali's in the 60s. I also said in another thread that I thought that Holmes beat Witherspoon legitimately. I have simply pointed out that there is a double standard in this thread for Holmes when being compared to Ali.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 30 Aug 2009, 18:07

I Feel Fine wrote:Why is that funny? Are you saying that I didn't defend Holmes? I stated that Holmes was robbed against Spinks the second time, that Holmes was old and inactive when Tyson beat him and that the win says little, that Holmes in his prime would have probably beaten Tyson and that Holmes was better in later fights against Mercer and Holyfield where he was more active. I also stated that Holmes' title reign was better than Tyson's or Ali's in the 60s. I also said in another thread that I thought that Holmes beat Witherspoon legitimately. I have simply pointed out that there is a double standard in this thread for Holmes when being compared to Ali.

I have noted what you are saying; no need to keep repeating the same thing. (That's Lard Arse Irene's job).

I'll keep an eye out for your next post defending Ali and we can continue our chat then.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 30 Aug 2009, 19:00

Yes, as we can all clearly see, I'm obsessed with Collins, not the other way around. See who mentions who in every second posting

I don't like to see BS posted about myself (or anyone) on the site. Blatant lies against people have no place. No one gives a sh!t, obviously, so I'll leave it at this --- I have sent Collins four PM's in the past six months. I don't know how often my name is (poorly) parodied in his most recent postings.

Give it a rest, Collins. As you're beginning to see, I'm not the only one tired of it.

gambler49 · Post by **gambler49** » 31 Aug 2009, 07:07

I Feel Fine wrote:It is amusing seeing the Holmes people trying to stick it to Ali for a couple of gifts. Tell it to Carl Williams and Jesse Ferguson.
It is also amusing seeing gambler laugh at the possibility that one of the fighters that he selected could win. I agree that Moorer has little to no chance, but why make him a part of this exercise if that is the case...

Cos Moorer matches up very well wiv the bottom half of the draw. Cooney, Morrison, Patterson.
And all matches are very interesting even Holmes vs 1975 Ali. But really there can only be 2 winners of the tournament... Holmes or Ali.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 31 Aug 2009, 09:07

They are all talented HWs...anyone really can win.

Otherwise why watch the sport ?

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 31 Aug 2009, 13:53

We're not "watching" anything, this is a poll, not a real tournament. In a real tournament there might be upsets, but this is a fake tournament where we can only go on probabilities and no one is going to pick Morrison, for instance.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 31 Aug 2009, 19:08

And people like yourself lack the imagination to envision
say...an Ali losing.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 31 Aug 2009, 21:43

Ha. I picked Holmes to beat '75 Ali and win the tournament. Fail.
How did you score Holmes-Williams, by the way? 11-4 like two of the judges?

BroughtonRulesRefuge · Post by **BroughtonRulesRefuge** » 31 Aug 2009, 22:11

I Feel Fine wrote:We're not "watching" anything, this is a poll, not a real tournament. In a real tournament there might be upsets, but this is a fake tournament where we can only go on probabilities and no one is going to pick Morrison, for instance.

- Funny, but no one was picking Morrison over Big George, Leon over Ali, Douglas over Tyson, or Ali over Foreman.

Upsets are what happen in real boxing, and yet, there are real people who study the matchups and get the inside info going into a fight that often determines the winner, like Marg having detached retina repair a week before Mosley and fighting like a deadman walking, or Wlad being spiked against Brewster. Huge sums were made in these beyond the pale upsets.

In the Morrison/Foreman case, who knew one of the era's premiere sluggers not only would move and box, but do it so well? Not many.

In Leon/Ali, few were surprised that the shot to smithereens Ali got beat, since he'd already been beat in the public eyes a few fights before, but to lose to Leon? I thought it impossible for any champ no matter how shot could lose against someone so stupid. Leon schooled us all.

In Douglas/Tyson, many knew as soon as he signed with King and ditched his team, Tyson was toast. Nobody to guarantee Buster to actually be the one, but not surprised Tyson upset by a talented Buster.

In Ali/Foreman, being over in Africa for over month before the fight, info was scarce, but those in the know knew George couldn't spar properly the month leading up to the fight, and therefore wouldn't be sharp. Still, his last few fights Ali had looked like an old rust bucket, so it was hard to imagine that upset. Gene Kilroy of his team picked it perfectly, KO 8th in the informal writer's poll passed around before the start.

So the jeering dismissal of a prime 1994 Moorer in this so called tournament that I had to provide the first final results for pretty much sums up the limited acumen of this board. He not only retired a prime Mr. Field, but is the only fighter to ever able trade with Big George in ring center for 8 rds.

The other fighters have more deficiencies in the assigned time frames than does he, period.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 31 Aug 2009, 22:17

That is exactly the point. In real life there are upsets that play out, as I acknowledged, but we unfortunately will not be able to see if that can happen here since this is not a real tournament. This is a poll, and it is a very slanted poll towards one particular fighter. "Who wins between prime Ray Robinson, Ricardo Mayorga, an old Leonard and a prime Hector Camacho." It is a pointless experiment, we all know who the favorite is. That there could be an upset is something that we can't know.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 31 Aug 2009, 22:37

I Feel Fine wrote:How did you score Holmes-Williams, by the way?

That is yet to be scored here.

You are welcome to join in.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 31 Aug 2009, 23:03

IFF,

"Fail" OMFG ROFLMAO LOL !!!

good talk.

HW tournament.

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