Head-To-Head --- Smokin' Joe & The Manassa Mauler?

[I Feel Fine]

Frazier gave his reasons, he felt that Ali was a wounded animal and that it would be dangerous to throw caution to the wind. I think Smokin' Joe knows a bit more about how to finish an opponent than you do. Joe Frazier, like Joe Louis, was a patient finisher, which is why they never got caught the way Castillo did against a hurt opponent. The notion that Joe was going to knock Ali down three times in one round is quite fanciful. It would be like me saying that Ali would have knocked Frazier down at all had what's his face not stepped in prematurely in the second round of the second fight; it is foolish because we will never know. And I wouldn't believe or even presume that Ali would have knocked Joe down, because I'm a bit more realistic. You apparently aren't. Not to mention that for all you know Ali would have caught Joe with a left hook and changed the momentum, and for all I know Joe would have done the same in the second round of the second fight; these were fights with constant ebb and flow. Ali and Frazier were both pretty good at surviving each other's rallies, and there is no basis for believing that one lapse in intensity is going to make the difference in either of the two fights. It is pointless speculation. What is not pointless speculation is the question of whether or not there was a knockdown that Mercante ruled a slip, this is a question that we can objectively view and judge; and the answer is that there wasn't. It was a slip. Look at Ali's back and look at their legs tangle. I know that you would like to keep repeating that there was a knockdown in order to plant a seed of doubt in the minds of those who are too lazy to re-watch the video, but that is not going to work on me, my friend.
You probably thought it was a knock down in round 14 of Manila when Ali stumbled there too. You must be Frazier's auntie.

[Collins2000]

Disliking Dempsey because you do not find his fights aesthetically pleasing and dislike some of his career moves which were mostly the choice of his manager and not of Dempsey himself is one thing, but suggesting that such an all time great puncher would not have at least a very good chance at a slow starter like Frazier is absolute madness.
Yancey... in regards to the notion that Mercante was wrong to call that a slip where Ali very clearly trips by a combination of his back bouncing off the ropes and his leg very visibly tripping over Frazier's leg (the video is on youtube of round 11 if anyone cares to see it) and in regards to the notion that Frazier could have actually managed a three knock down round against Ali, I can only ask, ala Barney Frank, "On what planet do you spend most of your time?"

Not a surprise that Frank would be your role model.

Listen, simpleton, if Frazier had followed up and Ali goes down for the 2nd time in round 15 with 1:28 left in the round, the three-knockdown rule most definitely comes into play.

If my aunty had a set of bollocks, she'd be my uncle.

[yancey]

Disliking Dempsey because you do not find his fights aesthetically pleasing and dislike some of his career moves which were mostly the choice of his manager and not of Dempsey himself is one thing, but suggesting that such an all time great puncher would not have at least a very good chance at a slow starter like Frazier is absolute madness.
Yancey... in regards to the notion that Mercante was wrong to call that a slip where Ali very clearly trips by a combination of his back bouncing off the ropes and his leg very visibly tripping over Frazier's leg (the video is on youtube of round 11 if anyone cares to see it) and in regards to the notion that Frazier could have actually managed a three knock down round against Ali, I can only ask, ala Barney Frank, "On what planet do you spend most of your time?"

Not a surprise that Frank would be your role model.

Listen, simpleton, if Frazier had followed up and Ali goes down for the 2nd time in round 15 with 1:28 left in the round, the three-knockdown rule most definitely comes into play.

If my aunty had a set of bollocks, she'd be my uncle.

deleted, I don't want to hurt Collins' feelings. DD

[yancey]

Frazier gave his reasons, he felt that Ali was a wounded animal and that it would be dangerous to throw caution to the wind. I think Smokin' Joe knows a bit more about how to finish an opponent than you do. Joe Frazier, like Joe Louis, was a patient finisher, which is why they never got caught the way Castillo did against a hurt opponent. The notion that Joe was going to knock Ali down three times in one round is quite fanciful. It would be like me saying that Ali would have knocked Frazier down at all had what's his face not stepped in prematurely in the second round of the second fight; it is foolish because we will never know. And I wouldn't believe or even presume that Ali would have knocked Joe down, because I'm a bit more realistic. You apparently aren't. Not to mention that for all you know Ali would have caught Joe with a left hook and changed the momentum, and for all I know Joe would have done the same in the second round of the second fight; these were fights with constant ebb and flow. Ali and Frazier were both pretty good at surviving each other's rallies, and there is no basis for believing that one lapse in intensity is going to make the difference in either of the two fights. It is pointless speculation. What is not pointless speculation is the question of whether or not there was a knockdown that Mercante ruled a slip, this is a question that we can objectively view and judge; and the answer is that there wasn't. It was a slip. Look at Ali's back and look at their legs tangle. I know that you would like to keep repeating that there was a knockdown in order to plant a seed of doubt in the minds of those who are too lazy to re-watch the video, but that is not going to work on me, my friend.
You probably thought it was a knock down in round 14 of Manila when Ali stumbled there too. You must be Frazier's auntie.

"Wounded animal", my ass. He was ready to go. Frazier could have blew him a kiss and he would have fell over.

[I Feel Fine]

Right, because that happened to Ali so many times in his career. He was KO'd all the time and had no survival instincts.
Tell it to Frazier, he's the one who said it, and he had a lot more experience with Ali in the ring than you do.
If only Perez hadn't stepped in, Ali would have had a second round knockout of Frazier... (yeah right)

[yancey]

Right, because that happened to Ali so many times in his career.
Tell it to Frazier, he's the one who said it, and he had a lot more experience than Ali in the ring than you did.
If only Perez hadn't stepped in, Ali would have had a second round knockout of Frazier... (yeah right)

No, it had never happened before to Ali.

That night was different than anything he had ever experienced.

He was ready to go at approximately 1:28 of that youtube video.

[I Feel Fine]

What delusion. Ali was hurt but his legs were there and Frazier was also very tired. Get serious.

That Perez, he was paid off by the Frazier industry. One more punch and Joe was out of there... if only...

[yancey]

What delusion. Ali was hurt but his legs were there and Frazier was also very tired. Get serious.

That Perez, he was paid off by the Frazier industry. One more punch and Joe was out of there... if only...

Out on his feet at 1:28. A followup hook and he is.....

OUTTA THERE!!!

TIMBER!!!

[Goodnight, Irene]

" "Wounded animal", my ass. He was ready to go. Frazier could have blew him a kiss and he would have fell over. " - Yancey

Come on, man. That is not reality. You are actually inadvertantly discrediting Frazier & his finishing ability with your words.

[I Feel Fine]

Yes, Frazier was one punch away from a knockout. And Frazier would have beaten Foreman if he had gotten one more chance. And Joe would have won in Manila had Futch let him continue. And Joe would beat Wlad right now at 66 if only Klitschko would stop ducking him. Claims made that cannot possibly be verified or disproven are always fun. Ali was one jab away from stopping Frazier in round two before Perez saved Joe, just remember that.

[yancey]

" "Wounded animal", my ass. He was ready to go. Frazier could have blew him a kiss and he would have fell over. " - Yancey

Come on, man. That is not reality. You are actually inadvertantly discrediting Frazier & his finishing ability with your words.

You do recognize hyperbole, don't you?

[Goodnight, Irene]

I wasn't criticising the hyperbole, but the sentiment behind it. I have to contend your point --- Ali more than proved his mettle against Frazier, & others.

What makes you feel so sure, given Ali's sterling survival record?

[yancey]

Yes, Frazier was one punch away from a knockout. And Frazier would have beaten Foreman if he had gotten one more chance. And Joe would have won in Manila had Futch let him continue. And Joe would beat Wlad right now at 66 if only Klitschko would stop ducking him. Claims made that cannot possibly be verified or disproven are always fun. Ali was one jab away from stopping Frazier in round two before Perez saved Joe, just remember that.

Here is what it is.

Frazier was a followup punch from an almost certain second knockdown of Ali with roughly 1/2 round to go. Dunphy knew what was happening and he was right there.

Depending upon the effectiveness of the followup punch that didn't happen, Ali (assuming he struggles up) might have been in such rough shape that a third knockdown might have quickly ensued.

Got to go, some yardwork to do before it gets dark.

[I Feel Fine]

Ahuh.
But you forget, Ali was only one punch away from a first round knockout of Frazier in Manila... the damned bell rang... the time keeper robbed Ali... Ali's wife paid the guy off to get back at him....

[Collins2000]

Frazier gave his reasons, he felt that Ali was a wounded animal and that it would be dangerous to throw caution to the wind. I think Smokin' Joe knows a bit more about how to finish an opponent than you do. Joe Frazier, like Joe Louis, was a patient finisher, which is why they never got caught the way Castillo did against a hurt opponent. The notion that Joe was going to knock Ali down three times in one round is quite fanciful. It would be like me saying that Ali would have knocked Frazier down at all had what's his face not stepped in prematurely in the second round of the second fight; it is foolish because we will never know. And I wouldn't believe or even presume that Ali would have knocked Joe down, because I'm a bit more realistic. You apparently aren't. Not to mention that for all you know Ali would have caught Joe with a left hook and changed the momentum, and for all I know Joe would have done the same in the second round of the second fight; these were fights with constant ebb and flow. Ali and Frazier were both pretty good at surviving each other's rallies, and there is no basis for believing that one lapse in intensity is going to make the difference in either of the two fights. It is pointless speculation. What is not pointless speculation is the question of whether or not there was a knockdown that Mercante ruled a slip, this is a question that we can objectively view and judge; and the answer is that there wasn't. It was a slip. Look at Ali's back and look at their legs tangle. I know that you would like to keep repeating that there was a knockdown in order to plant a seed of doubt in the minds of those who are too lazy to re-watch the video, but that is not going to work on me, my friend.
You probably thought it was a knock down in round 14 of Manila when Ali stumbled there too. You must be Frazier's auntie.

"Wounded animal", my ass. He was ready to go. Frazier could have blew him a kiss and he would have fell over.

Your love of Frazier is blinding you.

[BoxBuzz]

And Joe decided to be cautious....if he had gone in, blown the kiss, it would have ended right there I guess. Bad decision on Joe's part I suppose.

[yancey]

Frazier gave his reasons, he felt that Ali was a wounded animal and that it would be dangerous to throw caution to the wind. I think Smokin' Joe knows a bit more about how to finish an opponent than you do. Joe Frazier, like Joe Louis, was a patient finisher, which is why they never got caught the way Castillo did against a hurt opponent. The notion that Joe was going to knock Ali down three times in one round is quite fanciful. It would be like me saying that Ali would have knocked Frazier down at all had what's his face not stepped in prematurely in the second round of the second fight; it is foolish because we will never know. And I wouldn't believe or even presume that Ali would have knocked Joe down, because I'm a bit more realistic. You apparently aren't. Not to mention that for all you know Ali would have caught Joe with a left hook and changed the momentum, and for all I know Joe would have done the same in the second round of the second fight; these were fights with constant ebb and flow. Ali and Frazier were both pretty good at surviving each other's rallies, and there is no basis for believing that one lapse in intensity is going to make the difference in either of the two fights. It is pointless speculation. What is not pointless speculation is the question of whether or not there was a knockdown that Mercante ruled a slip, this is a question that we can objectively view and judge; and the answer is that there wasn't. It was a slip. Look at Ali's back and look at their legs tangle. I know that you would like to keep repeating that there was a knockdown in order to plant a seed of doubt in the minds of those who are too lazy to re-watch the video, but that is not going to work on me, my friend.
You probably thought it was a knock down in round 14 of Manila when Ali stumbled there too. You must be Frazier's auntie.

"Wounded animal", my ass. He was ready to go. Frazier could have blew him a kiss and he would have fell over.

Your love of Frazier is blinding you.

The fact that you are an Ali cabana boy renders your thoughts worthless on this matter.

[I Feel Fine]

Yancey manages to be even more unrealistic about Frazier's fights with Ali than even Frazier is... I think that is the definition of a "cabana boy."

[Goodnight, Irene]

"The fact that you are an Ali cabana boy renders your thoughts worthless on this matter." - Yancey

He most certainly is, but, "Ali Cabana Boy" is one of the better quips of late

[Collins2000]

Yancey manages to be even more unrealistic about Frazier's fights with Ali than even Frazier is... I think that is the definition of a "cabana boy."

He does seem to be a total fanboi doesn't he?

It's unhealthy.

My prediction. He strikes up a 'relationship' with that Irene character, another gimp who is in need of a personality transplant.