Mutual injury fightAutobarn wrote:
In their mutual injury fight, I had Cotto losing to Clottey.
good points. Brook has looked good/great against the domestic equivalents of Limond/ Gomez etcdanfoster wrote:
In my view, he has shone brightly against domestic level opponents and shown no clear weakness (unlike Amir against similar or lower level opponents). he has looked as good against this type of opponent as anyone i can remember bar Naz.
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All mixed frequently in world class, and had multiple world title shots, that to me leads me to believe they are world class, in that they mix(ed) frequently on the world stage.danfoster wrote:
one observation i would make about your very well argued post though - are all of the fighters you listed (abellos, Martinez, N'dou, Maussa, Sosa, Bailey, Corley, Abdulev, Torres & Branco) 'world class'? I haven't seen them all, i admit. Those i have are all tough, high quality opponents (no doubt) but to me 'world class' demands perhaps a higher standard. A number of those guys had they been European would be categorised as 'Euro level', in my view. The win against N'dou certainly stands out (but equally he had a life-and-death with Torres)
do you think maybe you're vastly overrating cotto?Wales wrote:Interesting Dan, considering Cotto beat Mosley in a humdinger not so long back... and before the term "old mosely" is used lets not forget his performances just before (Vargas & collazo) and just after (Margarito) were superb.
**EDIT** sorry Dan, didnt see you say mosley was "borderline". **EDIT**
I agree with Ian in we cannot judge until Brook has gone through euro class, but he's had 20 fights spanning 5 years. At exactly the same stage in his career cotto was fighting Pinto for a world title. he'd already proven himself world class by beating Cabellos, Martinez, N'dou, Maussa & Sosa. In his next 5 he'd defeat Bailey, Corley, Abdulev, Torres & Branco. And he'd looked pretty electric in beating nine of those ten fighters at WORLD CLASS (not domestic class), as good as many propects I can remember. He demolished Pinto, and avenged Abdulev in fantastic fashion.
I suppose Kell will one day be ready for cotto if he carries on upwards, and cotto will start declining! but he will never be as good as the Puerto Rican was, or is now. Cotto is being unfairly bashed down to one defeat against Margarito. Everyone is forgetting how he accelerated into the Judah fight, or ground down mosley.
If brook does end up that good, well done for seeing something special that I dont. Cotto is a once ten years fighter.
re Torres. a great fight. however, how about Cotto's cheating, the blatant low blows when he's in danger of getting stopped?Wales wrote:All mixed frequently in world class, and had multiple world title shots, that to me leads me to believe they are world class, in that they mix(ed) frequently on the world stage.danfoster wrote:
one observation i would make about your very well argued post though - are all of the fighters you listed (abellos, Martinez, N'dou, Maussa, Sosa, Bailey, Corley, Abdulev, Torres & Branco) 'world class'? I haven't seen them all, i admit. Those i have are all tough, high quality opponents (no doubt) but to me 'world class' demands perhaps a higher standard. A number of those guys had they been European would be categorised as 'Euro level', in my view. The win against N'dou certainly stands out (but equally he had a life-and-death with Torres)
He did go life and death with torress, but it was the first time we'd all seen torress who, it has transpired, is a murderous puncher. torress was Cottos Bredis Prescott, I think a combination of the unknown and the weight led to cotto struggling there. Shame nobody talks of his nads to get up and win, as appose to the fact he was knocked down.
Pinto is an underated win, seem to remember Junior Witter crying off from a fight with pinto.
aye agreed. whilst offensively Cotto has a little of the JCC to him, i think we should remember that neither his defence, chin or overal ring skills are at that level, which is where i would have a 'once in a decade fighter' meself, like.Autobarn wrote:do you think maybe you're vastly overrating cotto?Wales wrote:Interesting Dan, considering Cotto beat Mosley in a humdinger not so long back... and before the term "old mosely" is used lets not forget his performances just before (Vargas & collazo) and just after (Margarito) were superb.
**EDIT** sorry Dan, didnt see you say mosley was "borderline". **EDIT**
I agree with Ian in we cannot judge until Brook has gone through euro class, but he's had 20 fights spanning 5 years. At exactly the same stage in his career cotto was fighting Pinto for a world title. he'd already proven himself world class by beating Cabellos, Martinez, N'dou, Maussa & Sosa. In his next 5 he'd defeat Bailey, Corley, Abdulev, Torres & Branco. And he'd looked pretty electric in beating nine of those ten fighters at WORLD CLASS (not domestic class), as good as many propects I can remember. He demolished Pinto, and avenged Abdulev in fantastic fashion.
I suppose Kell will one day be ready for cotto if he carries on upwards, and cotto will start declining! but he will never be as good as the Puerto Rican was, or is now. Cotto is being unfairly bashed down to one defeat against Margarito. Everyone is forgetting how he accelerated into the Judah fight, or ground down mosley.
If brook does end up that good, well done for seeing something special that I dont. Cotto is a once ten years fighter.
well Clottey might be a moaner, but he couldn't walk or stand properly. it messed up his balance and his ability to throw a right hand. both men were held back by injuries.Wales wrote:Mutual injury fightAutobarn wrote:
In their mutual injury fight, I had Cotto losing to Clottey.
I know which I'd take, a smashed up eye from round 3 (was it 3) or some fake hip limp from being bundled over in the 5th. Limp Limp fine again afterwards. Clottey was looking for low blows and points taken off on more than one occassion, to coin a phrase, "he's a moaning bitch"