how long will Manny Steward stay manager....

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 17 Oct 2004, 16:36

If Vivian Harris loses in Germany next Sat? Two hours tops?

Imagine it, Manny advises him to turn down 750K, go back to Germany for less money, and he ends up leaving, minus his belt.

The German camp must really fancy their chances, paying Harris’ price to get him back for Urkal.
The judges and ref will have been carefully picked. Probably staying in 5 star Berlin hotels as we speak. Robin Reid’s mate, Roger Tillerman, back in charge possibly?

Joking aside, this will probably be another distance fight. Good fight last time – will the cagey Urkal have a few surprises up his sleeve for Harris?

If he wins, FW should send Ricky over for a shot. Tough fight, but he’s not going to get knocked out: points loss at the worst, and no disgrace. Or maybe even a memorable win abroad??

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Oct 2004, 16:42

What I heard from guys in the know if the Harris is not liked by his own promotional company - they don't particularly care what happens to him and are there for the most money. They are after the biggest short term (i.e. most risk) deal as opposed to looking after his best interests and securing a longer term deal (i.e. less risky defences).

Not saying that Urkal is offering more money than Hatton, cause that seemed to be Harries' decision more than his management team. However, apparently you won't see team Harries to upset if their guy loses this weekend.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 17 Oct 2004, 18:24

From what i was told my my colleagues at maxboxing, Vivian is a nightmare to deal with, and has continually pissed off main events. He's been trying to get out of his contract with them almost since day 1, and is not exactly their favourite fighter.

Harris is a bit of a plonker, he spends ages calling out Hatton and badmouthing him, then when his demands are met, decides at the last minute that he wants out. I would have liked to see it go to purse bids, but I can understand allegedly's reasoning, why should he foot the bill to stage the promotion when Harris acts like such a tit?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Oct 2004, 18:31

jamesmcdonnell wrote:From what i was told my my colleagues at maxboxing, Vivian is a nightmare to deal with, and has continually pissed off main events. He's been trying to get out of his contract with them almost since day 1, and is not exactly their favourite fighter.

Yeah, thats what I heard aswell. Main events don't really mind who wins Saturday's fight because they just want to make a fast buck (and out) with Harris.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 18 Oct 2004, 08:32

jamesmcdonnell wrote:From what i was told my my colleagues at maxboxing, Vivian is a nightmare to deal with, and has continually pissed off main events. He's been trying to get out of his contract with them almost since day 1, and is not exactly their favourite fighter.

Harris is a bit of a plonker, he spends ages calling out Hatton and badmouthing him, then when his demands are met, decides at the last minute that he wants out. I would have liked to see it go to purse bids, but I can understand allegedly's reasoning, why should he foot the bill to stage the promotion when Harris acts like such a tit?

Hatton is the one who pussyed out of that fight. He bacame the first fighter to remove himself from a mandatory position. He took the cowardly way out, as he has a history of doing. Harris wanted the fight. The conditions weren't right.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 18 Oct 2004, 10:18

That is not quite true. Harris made certain demands, which as far as I can tell were met. He then ups the ante, and demands 1.6 million dollars!

Even Steve Kim, who isn't exactly a big fan of Hatton or allegedly, told me that he thought it was Manny Steward and Harris' fault.

Harris was so worried about what Hatton was getting instead of realising he was getting this biggest payday of his career.

Let's face it, Harris isn't a draw, if he was, he wouldn't be going to Germany to Urkal's back yard, for a rematch for less than half the money he was going to get against Hatton! Harris may be a good fighter, but he doesn't have star appeal and he isn't a draw, and in today's boxing climate, that is what matters, not titles.

You can argue that it should have gone to purse bids, personally I would have liked to have seen that happen, but belt or no belt, Harris was not worth 1.6 million, sounds to me like he wasn't that confident if he wanted that much. All that bitching about how his promoters were ripping him off etc.

Sounds to me that he wanted to avoid taking the fight against Hatton with Main Events, isn't this his last fight under contract.

If Harris was so keen on facing Hatton, why is he going to Germany for less money?

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 18 Oct 2004, 10:56

I agree with James here.

While Hatton and Warren have rightfully come under fire for previous matchmaking decisions, in this instance it really looks like Harris was the one who took a rain check.

After pounding his chest and calling out Hatton for around 2 years ( "I'll fight him in his own backyard!" ) he suddenly didn't seem to thrilled with the idea, when it came to the crunch.

FW even upped the offer to 750K - far more than Harris had previously made, and still he wasn't interested.

And after telling everyone he had NO interest in going over old ground in Germany again, he finds himself back there.....

Makes you wonder how motiviated he can really be.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 18 Oct 2004, 11:21

Yes indeed. I think Steward advised him to take a raincheck, and reminded him that his contract with main events was going to expire, just a hunch, but it does seem odd that as soon as Manny came on board, the fight went tits up.

And as MW pointed out, Harris was the one doing all the chest beating and saying he'd kick Ricky's ass in his own home town. So how come he turns down the biggest payday of his career then.

I'm sorry, but Harris was full of shit, if he'd wanted the fight so bad, he would have taken the offer rather than face Urkal in Germany (always a risky proposition) for less. No two ways about it.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 18 Oct 2004, 11:45

does seem a stupid decision to take (in my opinion) a harder fight for half the money...

I have long believed Urkal to be number 2 in the world, he is slipping know but came very close to beating a prime Kosta Tszyu

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 18 Oct 2004, 11:52

I wouldn't put him that high. He had the right style to give Tszyu problems, but I think there were other fighters our there who would have beaten him.

Harris could well come unstuck in this rematch, then where will he be?

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 18 Oct 2004, 12:07

Harris - 8/11
Oktay - 11/10

totlabet.com

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 18 Oct 2004, 12:14

Harris is a slight favourite then, hmm maybe worth a small punt. Mind you 11/10, hardly worth it unless you stick 500 quid down, and I certainly ain't got that much to lose.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 18 Oct 2004, 15:08

Well I've talked to a very close friend of Harris on another website (fightworld.us) who told me that he wanted the fight to go to purse bids so he could fight Hatton in America. There was NO showtime showing the fight as it was. Hatton was making more money than Harris and Harris is the type of guy who wouldn't agree to that. Some fighters are like that. mosley refused to fight DLH when DLH was getting more money than him, then he went and got beat by Wright. Hatton is a big name and harris wanted the WHOLE world to see him beat him. Hatton has made millions fighting the pedersons, vilches, smiths, etc. why can't he take a pay cut for 1 FIGHT? it's not like he'd make peanuts either.

Harris really wants to get out of his Main Events contract too. Granted thats nothing to do with Hatton but you have to understand his reasons for wanting purse bids. You honestly think that he thought Warren was gonna put up 1.6 million? lol. he knew what he was doing. he wanted the fight to go to purse bids. Urkal is just as tough a fight as the Hatton fight was in my opinion and its in GERMANY.

Hatton has been ducking Witter for years. He was WBO no.1 for ages, why didn't he force the title shot against Corley? Mitchell fights on his undercard and calls him out on Sky, like Witter did repeatedly, and Hatton pussys out of the fight. He wanted no part of judah when Judah challenged him. Do I need to go on?

Based on hattons proven cowardice, the benefit of doubt must go to Harris. If Hatton wanted to fight harris so bad, he would have taken purse bids. harris is fighting Urkal next while Hatton took the predictable easy option of Joke Stewart. Hatton is the joke.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 18 Oct 2004, 15:48

Barring a KO there is no chance in hell of Harris leaving Germany with any other belt than the one that holds up his baggy trousers....Urkal UD12....if Harris gets another decision i will post naked on Boxrec.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 18 Oct 2004, 17:16

lirva33 wrote:Well I've talked to a very close friend of Harris on another website (fightworld.us)

just out of interest,who was that (user-name wise), I used to post there for quite a while.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 18 Oct 2004, 18:09

jake. he talks to Harris on the phone quite a bit.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 18 Oct 2004, 19:36

oh him

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Oct 2004, 08:15

lirva33 wrote:Well I've talked to a very close friend of Harris on another website (fightworld.us) who told me that he wanted the fight to go to purse bids so he could fight Hatton in America. There was NO showtime showing the fight as it was. Hatton was making more money than Harris and Harris is the type of guy who wouldn't agree to that. Some fighters are like that. mosley refused to fight DLH when DLH was getting more money than him, then he went and got beat by Wright. Hatton is a big name and harris wanted the WHOLE world to see him beat him. Hatton has made millions fighting the pedersons, vilches, smiths, etc. why can't he take a pay cut for 1 FIGHT? it's not like he'd make peanuts either.

Harris really wants to get out of his Main Events contract too. Granted thats nothing to do with Hatton but you have to understand his reasons for wanting purse bids. You honestly think that he thought Warren was gonna put up 1.6 million? lol. he knew what he was doing. he wanted the fight to go to purse bids. Urkal is just as tough a fight as the Hatton fight was in my opinion and its in GERMANY.

Hatton has been ducking Witter for years. He was WBO no.1 for ages, why didn't he force the title shot against Corley? Mitchell fights on his undercard and calls him out on Sky, like Witter did repeatedly, and Hatton pussys out of the fight. He wanted no part of judah when Judah challenged him. Do I need to go on?

Based on hattons proven cowardice, the benefit of doubt must go to Harris. If Hatton wanted to fight harris so bad, he would have taken purse bids. harris is fighting Urkal next while Hatton took the predictable easy option of Joke Stewart. Hatton is the joke.

Yes, I agree in some senses, however. Hatton is the draw, and it appears that he is well aware of that, and isn't prepared to take the short end of money, he figures he has other options, and he is probably right, he is earning well in the meantime and other opportunities will probably present themselves soon, especially after the demolition job he just did on Stewart, and the fact he's likely to become the mandatory to Tszyu/Mitchell soon.

Harris wanted Showtime exposure, and there was none on offer, and yet he is fighting in Germany and will get no exposure outside of eastern europe and is earning comparitive peanuts for a guy with a belt. As a business decision it was a bad one not to take the offer. This is especially more so considering how tricky a customer Urkal is, home advantage and the fact that if Harris loses to Urkal, he will dissapear quicker than a cream cake at a fat farm, whereas a loss to Hatton would not have been so disastrous, especially if it had been a competitive fight.

I'm not saying that Vivian was scared of Hatton, I think he was just poorly advised not to take the fight, it was a big opportunity. Had he come over and beaten Hatton, he would have been big new, had he lost in a good fight, he wouln't have been too badly off.

If he beats Urkal again, he is still in the same position, a beltholder that nobody is interested in fighting.

We may not like that decision, but there it is.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 19 Oct 2004, 10:55

lirva33 wrote:Well I've talked to a very close friend of Harris on another website (fightworld.us) who told me that he wanted the fight to go to purse bids so he could fight Hatton in America. There was NO showtime showing the fight as it was. Hatton was making more money than Harris and Harris is the type of guy who wouldn't agree to that. Some fighters are like that. mosley refused to fight DLH when DLH was getting more money than him, then he went and got beat by Wright. Hatton is a big name and harris wanted the WHOLE world to see him beat him. Hatton has made millions fighting the pedersons, vilches, smiths, etc. why can't he take a pay cut for 1 FIGHT? it's not like he'd make peanuts either.

Harris really wants to get out of his Main Events contract too. Granted thats nothing to do with Hatton but you have to understand his reasons for wanting purse bids. You honestly think that he thought Warren was gonna put up 1.6 million? lol. he knew what he was doing. he wanted the fight to go to purse bids. Urkal is just as tough a fight as the Hatton fight was in my opinion and its in GERMANY.

Hatton has been ducking Witter for years. He was WBO no.1 for ages, why didn't he force the title shot against Corley? Mitchell fights on his undercard and calls him out on Sky, like Witter did repeatedly, and Hatton pussys out of the fight. He wanted no part of judah when Judah challenged him. Do I need to go on?

Based on hattons proven cowardice, the benefit of doubt must go to Harris. If Hatton wanted to fight harris so bad, he would have taken purse bids. harris is fighting Urkal next while Hatton took the predictable easy option of Joke Stewart. Hatton is the joke.

Calling Hatton a coward is out of order. He is clearly no coward and is desparate to fight Harris. He has never taken an active role in his matchmaking until now. That has been the decision of his handlers. His first flexing of his muscles was to INSIST that Harris be offered more money. He was. That Harris' pride or whatever wouldnt allow him to take less money than Ricky, even though it would be the biggest purse of his career, is NOT Ricky's fault. The stuff about purse bids is a smokescreen. The most money on the table for Harris was from Hatton to fight Hatton. In the end he was the one that walked away.

Lets come back and talk about this in a years time or so. Because I think by then Harris will no longer be a world champ, will be fighting for 30 or 40 thousand dollars a time and will need the three hundred and fifty thousand he turned his back on.

And for your benefit - yes I blame the Warren camp for not getting the Corley fight when they could have and messing up the Mitchell fight. Both fights I think Ricky would have won easily. Witter, I couldn't care less about. He's a useful fighter who once got humiliated in a world title fight and has got nowhere close to a world title fight since then. He slags off Hatton, but if its so easy to get a title shot at 140 why doesnt he shut up and do it himself ? He's well into his thirties for godsakes.

And if the 'New' Witter fought Hatton - he'd run like a thief in the night just like the old witter.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 19 Oct 2004, 11:08

Fightnews: Isn’t quite unusual for a world champion to challenge a challenger? What were your reasons?
Harris: "The reason was that Ricky Hatton couldn’t beat me. I know that he has nothing to beat me. That’s why I wanted to give him the opportunity to fight for the championship. But when I gave him that chance he showed no respect. He wanted more and more. He wanted to be treated like a champion. That’s why I didn’t go ahead with this fight. I don’t think about Ricky Hatton anymore."

Good tactics by Steward recently. He's on a charm offensive with the German people, telling them he and Harris are going to by houses in Berlin.
They love Berlin. They love the German people. He's going to open a Kronk gym in Berlin etc etc...Also got Tommy Hearns with them ( good move too ).

Don't think it's going to mean much on fight night though. I think Urkal might nick it this time round, and goodbye Manny Steward.

Also -

Unbeaten jr. welterweight contender Andreas Kotelnik of the Universum boxing stable will attempt to become a major factor in the 140lb division when he takes on Souleymane M’baye on Thursday, Oct. 21, in the Palais de Sports in Levallois, France. The fight is a WBA world title eliminator with the winner getting a title shot at winner of Saturday's Vivian Harris vs Otkay Urkal clash in Berlin.

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 19 Oct 2004, 11:10

Harris actaully already talked about it the first time he fourght Urkal

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Oct 2004, 11:14

I have often thought the same. If Witter is so confident, why does he desperately want the crack at Hatton? Why doesn't he find his own route to a world title shot, instead of hoping to do it by beating Hatton, which I am not convinced he would at all.

Witter needs to get a move on, and forget Hatton. The problem is, nobody wants to fight him, and that doesn't seem likley to change. I am not saying Witter cannot fight, he obviously can, but beating the likes of Salvatore Battaglia doesn't help his cause, just as Eastman is not benefitting from fighting Tatevosyan and Jerry Elliot. Being a talented fighter is less than half the story.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 19 Oct 2004, 12:07

The fact is the Harris fight was there for hatton to force through purse bids and he became the first fighter in history to remove himself from a mandatory position for a major belt. He's clearly only interested in defending the WBUsless belt in front of a packed house and thats what most of the American boxing fans think too. I agree Witter needs to get a move on and fight better fighters. Hattons been ducking Junior for years, he's never going to fight him because he's scared of Witter. It will be interesting to see how they progress over the next year.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Oct 2004, 13:37

I don't think he's the first fighter in history to do that, I would be surprised anyway.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 19 Oct 2004, 14:12

lirva33 wrote:The fact is the Harris fight was there for hatton to force through purse bids and he became the first fighter in history to remove himself from a mandatory position for a major belt. He's clearly only interested in defending the WBUsless belt in front of a packed house and thats what most of the American boxing fans think too. I agree Witter needs to get a move on and fight better fighters. Hattons been ducking Junior for years, he's never going to fight him because he's scared of Witter. It will be interesting to see how they progress over the next year.

Witter is well past his 30th birthday. He has fought just four times in the last two years. A year from now he will be closing on 32, still talking about Hatton and closer to retirment than a world title shot.

Apart from Witter needing to get a move on....I totally disagree with every single sentence in your post above.