Fights that never happened

Foggy · Post by **Foggy** » 20 Oct 2004, 08:36

Gunna need some help here fellas, i realise that James Toney and Roy Jones Jnr where in the Super Middleweight division when Benn & Eubank where still boxing, but would anyone have given the British boys any chance against either of these two, anybody also know why the fights where never arranged i.e. Benn V's Jones, Benn V's Toney, Eubank V's Jones, Eubank V's Toney. Just looking at these fights on paper is mouthwatering, shame it didn't happen.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 20 Oct 2004, 09:02

Benn was taylor made for Toney. toney called him out for years and Benn never took the fight. I remember reading that Toney wanted Benn so bad he said this "Nigel Benn's mother looks like the lockness monster! After I finish whooping him, she can suck my dick!" Word for word, no joke.

It speaks volumes that Benn never fought him after that.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 20 Oct 2004, 09:04

Eubank would have given Jones the toughest fight of that lot. I think Jones would have won on points primarily because of Eubanks poor footwork. I don't rule out the upset but it's highly unlikely.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Oct 2004, 09:09

Hohoho, oh boy that's funny. Benn never struck me as being scared of anyone, but I reckon his management might have taken him to one side and talked him out of considering the bout.

Benn was indeed tailor made for Toney. An Iron-Jawed, fearless, defensively astute, aggressive, skilfull and big punching natural super middleweight, againt an easily hurt, wild, porous but lion hearted puncher.

Toney would have whupped Benn, much as I respect Nigel, the only people Toney ever struggled with were movers, and most of them got whacked. Nigel would have been hurt repeatedly, and unlike McClellan, Toney was excellent on the inside, and would have broken Nigel up.

Toney v Collins might have been interesting, mainly because Collins took a hell of a shot and was an enormous super middlweight.

It's to the great detriment of boxing that on the whole the best of the UK never took on the best of the USA.

Toney, Jones Jr, McClellan, Nunn, Barkley, Hearns.

Eubank, Watson, Colins, Benn.

Imagine if a more of those matchups had been made. Eubank v Toney, would have loved to have seen those two egos clash. Benn v Hearns...don't blink.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 20 Oct 2004, 09:09

lirva33 wrote:Benn was taylor made for Toney. toney called him out for years and Benn never took the fight. I remember reading that Toney wanted Benn so bad he said this "Nigel Benn's mother looks like the lockness monster! After I finish whooping him, she can suck my dick!" Word for word, no joke.

It speaks volumes that Benn never fought him after that.

As much as I love Toney, what he said about Benn was way out of line.

I think Nigel is a stand up bloke. I'd like to have seen him starch Toney, but James would have outclassed him.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Oct 2004, 09:13

Oh come on, he was just trying to goad him into fighting him. I know Toney isn't everyone's cup of tea, but at least he backs up his cobblers in the ring.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 20 Oct 2004, 09:24

Herol Graham against Benn, Eubank, Watson or Collins.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Oct 2004, 10:26

Yep, add Herol into that mix. At Super Middleweight I think he might have struggled, mind you Sugar Boy Malinga gave Benn fits.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 20 Oct 2004, 10:32

Don't think I ever heard Benn & Eubank call out Jones or Toney.

Can't fault Nigel though, he took on The G Man, who was probably the scariest mother out there.
Even Jones gave McClellan a miss ( he beat Jones as an amateur too ).

I think it was on the Jonathan Ross show: Benn and Eubank had to sit there and take it, as Toney ranted and raved via satellite link up.
Benn was just rolling his eyes, but Chris looked shocked, close to tears even.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 20 Oct 2004, 10:36

As much as i despise that shit talking lard arse Toney i admit he is very talented and i think he would have dealt with Benn and probably most of the others as well...prime Eubank V Roy Jones would have been interesting.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 20 Oct 2004, 10:54

As much as i like Eubank , i couldn't see him being much of a problem for Jones Jnr.
Eubank struggled against Dan Sherry, Watson, Malinga, Close.
And lost to Collins at super middle.

Jones Jnr would have been to much of everything for Eubank.
Even Eubank admited as much in his book

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 20 Oct 2004, 10:56

topper123 wrote:Herol Graham against Benn, Eubank, Watson or Collins.

Graham beats the lot. His toughest fight would have been against Collins.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 20 Oct 2004, 11:05

knockout artist wrote:
topper123 wrote:Herol Graham against Benn, Eubank, Watson or Collins.
Graham beats the lot. His toughest fight would have been against Collins.

I see Eubank being his biggest problem, if it was at Supermiddle.
at Middle i think Benn would have stood a chance, if he caught Graham in the first few rounds. He didn't seem to carry the same punching power at Supermiddle.

Would still agree with you that Graham would have beaten the lot though

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Oct 2004, 11:36

Don't agree. I don't see how anyone can say that, because what pedigree did Herol have at super middle? He got blasted out by blown up light middleweight Jackson with one shot, he got by an ageing Vinny Paz, which was his best performance at the weight.

Benn may have struggled to get to him, but he carried his power late into fights, and I think if he keeps Graham under pressure and tires him, he's got a shot.

Eubank was bigger and stronger than Benn, unorthodox and an underrated puncher, he was also a more adept boxer, but would also have struggled.

Collins was pretty straightforward in his approach, and may have just worn Graham down with superior aggression and strength.

The fact that Graham didn't pack much heat and wasn't strong at the weight negates a lot of his boxing ability, but they would have been good fights.

Jones Jr would have pissed on all of them, no doubt about it, he was at his magnificent best at that weight, shame he didn't stick around longer.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 20 Oct 2004, 13:18

Not that it means anything, but Benn-Jones was actually on the cards at one point. Or at least being talked about with some hope. Looking through my magazines the other day, boxing ones I hasten to add, one of the early 90s Yankee ones (KO?) had done an analysis of the potential outcome.

They plumped for Toney on a close points decision.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 20 Oct 2004, 13:21

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Not that it means anything, but Benn-Jones was actually on the cards at one point. Or at least being talked about with some hope. Looking through my magazines the other day, boxing ones I hasten to add, one of the early 90s Yankee ones (KO?) had done an analysis of the potential outcome.

They plumped for Toney on a close points decision.

What in a Benn - Jones fight, they went for Toney?

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 20 Oct 2004, 13:22

knockout artist wrote:
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Not that it means anything, but Benn-Jones was actually on the cards at one point. Or at least being talked about with some hope. Looking through my magazines the other day, boxing ones I hasten to add, one of the early 90s Yankee ones (KO?) had done an analysis of the potential outcome.

They plumped for Toney on a close points decision.
What in a Benn - Jones fight, they went for Toney?

Sorry pal, Benn-Toney, naturally. I'll be watching your posts... 8)

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 20 Oct 2004, 13:33

At middleweight IMO Toney and Jones Jnr would have comfortably beaten Eubank, Benn, Watson and Collins. They were all tough and respected boxers so I don't think there would have been a risk of complacency on the Amercians part and that would have decreased any chance any of them might have had. Herol Graham on the other hand may have caused them a lot of grief.

I'd also have picked Graham to trounce Eubank, Benn, Watson and Collins. The mental cruelty Herol would have put them through with his bag of tricks would have broken all of them.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 20 Oct 2004, 15:17

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
knockout artist wrote:
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Not that it means anything, but Benn-Jones was actually on the cards at one point. Or at least being talked about with some hope. Looking through my magazines the other day, boxing ones I hasten to add, one of the early 90s Yankee ones (KO?) had done an analysis of the potential outcome.

They plumped for Toney on a close points decision.
What in a Benn - Jones fight, they went for Toney?
Sorry pal, Benn-Toney, naturally. I'll be watching your posts... 8)

Good Man

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 20 Oct 2004, 15:24

lirva33 wrote:Benn was taylor made for Toney. toney called him out for years and Benn never took the fight. I remember reading that Toney wanted Benn so bad he said this "Nigel Benn's mother looks like the lockness monster! After I finish whooping him, she can suck my dick!" Word for word, no joke.

It speaks volumes that Benn never fought him after that.

I remember Toney being on the front of Boxing News saying something like "All British fighters are bums and all their women are ugly".

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Oct 2004, 16:12

Benn and Collins would have fought Jones FOR THE RIGHT MONEY. Unfortunately, the money they wanted would have possibily bankrupt the promoter. Collins went to the USA banged on Roy Jones' door, met up with the various people and then demanded 7 million to fight him.

This made Collins look like the good guy and Jones as the one running scared, but the match wasn't made because of Collins' demands.

Benn has never said what he was asking for, but later said in Boxing Monthly that had the Jones camp agreed to his asking price he would have fought him, even though he admitted Jones probably would have battered him at that stage in his career. So whilst no figures have been announced it was a similar situation as Collins'.

Whilst I believe Jones would have beaten all of the three (Eubank, Benn and Collins). I think EACH fight would have been intriguing. Jones never faced a one punch KO artist like Benn, never fought anyone with the stamina and intensity (and granate chin) of Collins. Jones never liked to dictate the action, this would also have played in Eubank's hand who never lost a fight in which he was fighting at his own pace.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 20 Oct 2004, 17:50

According to Eubanks autobiography there was talk of him fighting Roy Jones after Jones had beaten Toney but as far as Chris was concerned the this didnt happen du to the fact that "the sky deal was now very much back on track" and he was lined up to face Steve Collins next.

He states later on he had no desire whatsoever to face RJJ or for that matter Toney or Michael Nunn, claiming that he didnt dodge them, which he describes as a "cardinal sin"....

He says that if a fighter was in the position as he was of being...

"champion of the world for one body, they couldnt be the No 1 contender for another belt. Unless someone was officially the recognised No1 contender, I had no obligation to face them. With Roy Jones, he was fortunately (and I use that word with the utmost respect) never No1 contender. Had he been, I would not have dodged. I would have taken the fight. Would I have won the fight? Highly unlikely. what would have been for sure was that he would have come away from the fight and got hurt, and I would have been hurt probably far more than he was. It would have been a war. Technically we would have been well matched, so our pure grit would have come into play. I beleive we both had powerful wills, so I feel that fight would have been fought on pure instinct. That can be an exceptionally violent occurence. Interestingly, I was told that Roy Jones was romoured to have said that the only fighter he had reservations about facing was me. I dont remember my critics saying much about that."

So there you go. Eubank fancied his chances but reckoned Jones would beat him. Regardless of belts, TV deals, contender status, it seems the real reason Eubank didnt ake the fight is that he thought RJJ had the beating of him. Easier money on Sky. Can we really blame him? And of course as it turned out Collins pretty much finished Eubanks career anyhow. I wonder if he'd be any happier with the fact that it was Jones?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Oct 2004, 20:13

stujones wrote:Benn and Collins would have fought Jones FOR THE RIGHT MONEY. Unfortunately, the money they wanted would have possibily bankrupt the promoter. Collins went to the USA banged on Roy Jones' door, met up with the various people and then demanded 7 million to fight him.

This made Collins look like the good guy and Jones as the one running scared, but the match wasn't made because of Collins' demands.

Benn has never said what he was asking for, but later said in Boxing Monthly that had the Jones camp agreed to his asking price he would have fought him, even though he admitted Jones probably would have battered him at that stage in his career. So whilst no figures have been announced it was a similar situation as Collins'.

Whilst I believe Jones would have beaten all of the three (Eubank, Benn and Collins). I think EACH fight would have been intriguing. Jones never faced a one punch KO artist like Benn, never fought anyone with the stamina and intensity (and granate chin) of Collins. Jones never liked to dictate the action, this would also have played in Eubank's hand who never lost a fight in which he was fighting at his own pace.

I think Jones' movement and handspeed would have been far too much for Eubank. Eubank was a counterpuncher by nature, but jones was too quick and movile. I think Eubank would have been the one forced to try and initiate things.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 21 Oct 2004, 06:04

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
stujones wrote:Benn and Collins would have fought Jones FOR THE RIGHT MONEY. Unfortunately, the money they wanted would have possibily bankrupt the promoter. Collins went to the USA banged on Roy Jones' door, met up with the various people and then demanded 7 million to fight him.

This made Collins look like the good guy and Jones as the one running scared, but the match wasn't made because of Collins' demands.

Benn has never said what he was asking for, but later said in Boxing Monthly that had the Jones camp agreed to his asking price he would have fought him, even though he admitted Jones probably would have battered him at that stage in his career. So whilst no figures have been announced it was a similar situation as Collins'.

Whilst I believe Jones would have beaten all of the three (Eubank, Benn and Collins). I think EACH fight would have been intriguing. Jones never faced a one punch KO artist like Benn, never fought anyone with the stamina and intensity (and granate chin) of Collins. Jones never liked to dictate the action, this would also have played in Eubank's hand who never lost a fight in which he was fighting at his own pace.
I think Jones' movement and handspeed would have been far too much for Eubank. Eubank was a counterpuncher by nature, but jones was too quick and movile. I think Eubank would have been the one forced to try and initiate things.

Agreed. But Chris would last the distance in my opinion. He would have given a respectable account of himself.

Can someone summarise the 2 Eubank fights with Collins and Collins 2 fights with Benn. I was to young to really know what was going on.

Was Collins just too good for them?
Did Eubank really have Collins out on his feet?
What happened to Benns power in the fight?

PS, Bravo showed Eubank vs Sherry the other night... lol Sherry was hilarious after he took the headbutt falling all over the place.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 21 Oct 2004, 06:30

The 2 fight Collins had with Benn , were right at the end of Benns career, he gave it a go for a few rounds in both. In the first fight Benn twisted his ankle and couldn't go on, it did look like Collins was begining to get to him anyway.

The second one, Benn came out firing, landed some good shots in the first and second round, but once Collins started coming on , then Benn pulled out of the fight.

It was kind of a sad way for Benn to Finish, i think he probaly took the second fight knowing that it would end this way if he didn't catch Collins early. but you can't blame him for taking a last payday.

Benn did get slagged off a bit after, people seemed to forget all the other great nights of excitment that he had given us.
Luckily the 2 Collins fights have been largely forgotten when people recall Benns career now