Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Expug]

Yep Rick.
Those are the kind of lessons that are hard but fair.
What would we do without all the great sparring? Thats the time to learn.
Somebody asked me recently how sparring and an actual fight are different.
To citizens , they see two guys banging on each other they dont know whats what.
I explained that in sparring you hit a guy with a big shot, you back off a little bit. You dont jump on him and finish the guy.
In a fight you do.
Of course, that sounds good and reasonable, but the truth is at times things can get a little heated and knockin a guy out in the gym happens on occasion.
What do you guys think? Sound like a decent explanation?

[Randyman]

Jeri and I stopped at an antique store earlier today and I found this classic photo of Jack Dempsey and Babe Ruth. Naturally I had to get it.


Jack Dempsey and Babe Ruth
Belmont Hotel, Day after Firpo fight, September 15, 1923

[Expug]

Randy,
That picture is fantastic. . Its a classic. Outstanding !

[raylawpc]

Yep Rick.
Those are the kind of lessons that are hard but fair.
What would we do without all the great sparring? Thats the time to learn.
Somebody asked me recently how sparring and an actual fight are different.
To citizens , they see two guys banging on each other they dont know whats what.
I explained that in sparring you hit a guy with a big shot, you back off a little bit. You dont jump on him and finish the guy.
In a fight you do.
Of course, that sounds good and reasonable, but the truth is at times things can get a little heated and knockin a guy out in the gym happens on occasion.
What do you guys think? Sound like a decent explanation?

I think that's true for the most part. There are exceptions: Jack Dempsey famously destroyed sparring partners.

[raylawpc]

Randy,
That picture is fantastic. . Its a classic. Outstanding !

Indeed!!

[Randyman]

Randy,
That picture is fantastic. . Its a classic. Outstanding !

Brian, thanks, historically, Dempsey is my favorite fighter. The Babe is the icing on the cake!!

Randy

[dagosd2000]

I remember when Jose Napoles lost his title on a cut to Billy Backus in Syracuse. I thought they stopped the fight early,but Jose was in Billy's neck of the woods and the ref figured he'd stop it before Napoles would let it all hang out and finish Bily off.

There was a rematch clause,but Napoles wanted a tune up fight before the return. It turned out to be a wise move. Jose was put in with the tough veteran Manuel Gonzalez. The fight was held in the Arena Coliseo in Mexico City. A good tune up in the most famous arena in Mexico.

However Gonzalez was pretty slick that night. I don't know whether Jose wanted the work or Gonzalez was that crafty,but the fight was pretty close up to the sudden ending. There were a few chifles being heard in that tall oval structure because Jose hadn't put him to sleep yet. Then Napoles cornered the Tejano. BAM. A short left hook to Manuel's side and he went down like a busted roll of nickles.Jose was Mexico's "maestro" again.

Question for Rick
The heavy weight that caught me just right that day in the gym was a tall blond guy that used to train at a gym out at the beach in San Diego. He'd won a couple of pro fights and was in training to fight a main event at the Coliseum down here. This was in the early 80's. I don't remember his name,but I do remember he was knocked out in the 1st round of his fight at the Coliseum. Any idea who I'm talking about?

[dagosd2000]

To anyone out there. Anything on Manuel Gonzalez. I always liked him. A real bread and butter guy.

[Randyman]

Yep Rick.
Those are the kind of lessons that are hard but fair.
What would we do without all the great sparring? Thats the time to learn.
Somebody asked me recently how sparring and an actual fight are different.
To citizens , they see two guys banging on each other they dont know whats what.
I explained that in sparring you hit a guy with a big shot, you back off a little bit. You dont jump on him and finish the guy.
In a fight you do.
Of course, that sounds good and reasonable, but the truth is at times things can get a little heated and knockin a guy out in the gym happens on occasion.
What do you guys think? Sound like a decent explanation?

I think that's true for the most part. There are exceptions: Jack Dempsey famously destroyed sparring partners.

From what Rick tells us, Jerry Quarry used to bully Mike when they sparred. Mike, in turn, took it out on me for three days of sparring. I ain't complaining though. it was a hell of an experience. A good experienced fighter, if he has a level head and a decent temperament, will use the sparring to not only get a workout but to teach. Renato Garcia was that way. Never took advantage of his experience. He would have made a great trainer. The best sparring though is between two closely experienced fighters. The best sparring session I ever saw was Danny "Little Red" Lopez and Bobby Chacon. It was heated and competitive, but controlled. Later, they were talking and laughing. Two class acts.

[Rick Farris]

I remember when Jose Napoles lost his title on a cut to Billy Backus in Syracuse. I thought they stopped the fight early,but Jose was in Billy's neck of the woods and the ref figured he'd stop it before Napoles would let it all hang out and finish Bily off.

There was a rematch clause,but Napoles wanted a tune up fight before the return. It turned out to be a wise move. Jose was put in with the tough veteran Manuel Gonzalez. The fight was held in the Arena Coliseo in Mexico City. A good tune up in the most famous arena in Mexico.

However Gonzalez was pretty slick that night. I don't know whether Jose wanted the work or Gonzalez was that crafty,but the fight was pretty close up to the sudden ending. There were a few chifles being heard in that tall oval structure because Jose hadn't put him to sleep yet. Then Napoles cornered the Tejano. BAM. A short left hook to Manuel's side and he went down like a busted roll of nickles.Jose was Mexico's "maestro" again.

Question for Rick
The heavy weight that caught me just right that day in the gym was a tall blond guy that used to train at a gym out at the beach in San Diego. He'd won a couple of pro fights and was in training to fight a main event at the Coliseum down here. This was in the early 80's. I don't remember his name,but I do remember he was knocked out in the 1st round of his fight at the Coliseum. Any idea who I'm talking about?

Sory, Rog. Don't know?

[kikibalt]

Two weeks and counting "CBHOF"

[kikibalt]

To anyone out there. Anything on Manuel Gonzalez. I always liked him. A real bread and butter guy.

Rog, I seen Gonzalez fight on tv a few times, live, once, when he fought Mando Muniz down in Tucson, AZ. (1973), I was the fouth men in the corner, which meant I couldn't get in the ring, I could only work on the floor. Mando won a hard fight, Gonzalez was at that time on the down slide of his career, on his best days I think he would have beaten Mando. Gonzalez was a very very good boxer that could also whack some.

The amateur portion of the card was made up of nothing but SoCal amateur fighters, Johnny Jensen, Frankie Duarte, Frankie Baltazar, et al. it was a fun trip, if you ever get a chance ask Mando about our trip back....

[kikibalt]

A LEFT HOOK TO THE LIVER

Like I was mentioning ,I would once in a while watch the fighters train at the various gymnasiums in Tijuana when I was living down there. Just about every colonia had a little gym where the neighborhood aspirants would come in and see if they had what it takes.

Not until recently, most Mexican fighters were pure bangers. There were exceptions. Miguelito Canto and Baby Vasquez pop into my mind,but I remember the big left hookers. Especially throwing that shot to the liver. You'd get two Mexican fighters with the same approach against each other ,winding up throwing those left handed body shots, and the fan was in for plenty of action.

Gato Gonzalez will always talk about his left hook,"su gancho",to the liver. A man's"higado." It took the legs away from many of his opponents.

I was watching a workout at the CREA gym one in Tijuana a few years ago. An old guy standing next to me said something I'll never forget. We were watching two of these left hook artists going at it . He turned to me and shook his head.
"You know," he said,"the Mexican diet is made to order for a fighter to attack another's liver."

I often think about that remark. What came first, the diet or the left hook to the liver?

I was introduce to the liver shot back in the mid-1950s, one day at the Teamsters gym Wicho Morales dug a left hook to my liver, I was against the ropers and I couldn't move, my legs wouldn't do what I wanted them to do, it was about 30 seconds before I could move again, I can still feel that shot....

[dagosd2000]

Two weeks and counting "CBHOF"

Frank
Looking forward to seeing you and Connie , Rick and Monica, Randy and Jeri.

[kikibalt]

"The Dominoes"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKrfsyDh80I
"Weeping Willow Blues"

[kikibalt]

"Pabst Blue Ribbon"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI_mZrLRl0I

[kikibalt]

Two weeks and counting "CBHOF"

Frank
Looking forward to seeing you and Connie , Rick and Monica, Randy and Jeri.

We will all be there buddy....

[kikibalt]

"The Rivileers"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlpkCyAck0Q
"For Sentimental Reasons"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aeqRWMjLKQ
"A Thousand Stars"

[kikibalt]

"Tony Allen"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D40veCPDOxI
"Night Owl"

[Randyman]

"Tony Allen"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D40veCPDOxI
"Night Owl"

Orale Frank, I'm ready for Whittier Blvd in East Los on a Sunday night. Cruising in mi ranfla with my rucca by my side.

Randy 8)

[Randyman]

Two weeks and counting "CBHOF"

Frank
Looking forward to seeing you and Connie , Rick and Monica, Randy and Jeri.

We will all be there buddy....

Can't wait, I'm really looking forward to it. Again Frank, thank you!!

Randy

[kikibalt]

Randy, don't forget to remind Ed Hernandez, have two tickets for him too...

[Randyman]

Randy, don't forget to remind Ed Hernandez, have two tickets for him too...

Yes Frank, He's bringing one of his sons. He's really looking forward to it as well, and I can't thank you enough for including him. If I could get him to fix his old computer or buy a new one, he would be on this thread with us.

Randy

[dagosd2000]

"The Rivileers"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlpkCyAck0Q
"For Sentimental Reasons"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aeqRWMjLKQ
"A Thousand Stars"

A SIMPLER TIME

His name was Steve Bradaric. He played next to me on the line in football. He was a year younger than me and had to step in when our first string center went down with a knee injury.

Steve's old man tended bar at the Arizona in Ocean Beach. Yeah,he was around in the days when the old LA. Rams would come down to Radovich's place to drink it up . Crazy Legs,Waterfield,Van Brocklin, Skeets...the usual gang of suspects. Oh,there was another one of the "glub glub" boys. A fella,a fighter named Murphy, who wasn't shy to let off a little steam. They'd all go sport fishing and whoring around down in TJ all the time making sure they were plenty fortified with anything that had alcohol in it.


Don't get me wrong me and Steve Bradaric weren't in on those shenanigans.We were only little boys back then. But we heard the stories. It was no secret. I don't think those guys wanted it to be a secret.

Well all those boys are scattered to the wind now. I remember me and Steve, when turning the legal age, walking into the Arizona for a drink. Steve's old man was still behind the bar. Radovich was still the owner . Of course me and Steve had to sit by the front door. The stools by the back door were for the exclusive members of old gang's drinking fraternity that still had functioning livers. Me and Steve were too young to belong.They didn't say much to us except to make a joke at our expense.

When the mid 60's hit with the counter revolution, Ocean Beach got swallowed up in it. It was Haight Ashbury south. Peace,love, dove. And plenty of drugs.

Steve Bradaric turned out to be a hell of a football player his senior year in high school. Was getting offers from all over. I hadn't seen him in a while when I saw him walking down the street in OB. He was huge. Not in a buff way,but looked like a baloon full of water. I asked him if he was OK and he said everything was on the level. But Steve never played anymore football. Didn't take up any of the scholarships. Instead Steve became a full blown hype.

Steve eventually lost his job at the defense plant. Was hanging around junkies. Was in and out of jail. Finally in the early 80's I get a call from him. I had lost touch with Steve . He told me he was in a county hospital in Burbank,California. Me and Maria drove up to see him.

The hospital was no state of the art institution. We found Steve in one of the rooms prone in a bed. He looked like a skeleton. Steve always had a big voice and when he saw me he let out a shout that could be heard at Dodger Stadium. Steve may have been weak,but he still had his pipes.

Steve was watching the old Gene Autry TV program. It was a Saturday morning. I remember hearing Autry's theme song,"Back In The Saddle Again."

My old buddy started to fill me in on his life. Turned out that Steve was playing football with a bum valve in his heart. The docs told the old man he shouldn't play,but the bartender told th MD's to look the other way. He'd get Steve into the operating room for a new valve after high school.

Well Steve and his old man had a falling out. Seems the old man fell pretty hard for one of the bar flies in the Arizona and broke up with Steve's mom. There was a big beef between the father and son. The old man said that Steve could live with his bad ticker.That must have been the time when I saw Steve all swollen up. His heart was starting to go.

As me and the misses sat with Steve in that hospital,he talked about playing football and the days when we were kids. Never brought up drugs. There were a lot of old stories. He was at peace. He looked forward to watching the old programs and movies on the TV. He enjoyed reading. He said I was luckty to have Maria.

We left and promised to to be back,but Steve passed away before we could see him again. I'm sure Steve was dreaming about a simpler time when he reached the end of the 4th quarter.

[dagosd2000]

Randy, don't forget to remind Ed Hernandez, have two tickets for him too...

Yes Frank, He's bringing one of his sons. He's really looking forward to it as well, and I can't thank you enough for including him. If I could get him to fix his old computer or buy a new one, he would be on this thread with us.

Randy

FANTASTIC