BBBofC CALLS INQUIRY INTO MCDERMOTT-FURY FOR 23rd September

[jamesmcdonnell]

"nothing to do with bad day at the office" it was Crimminal with full intent an ordered from on high.

the money machine MUST keep rolling, this is the only motivation and at present Tyson Fury offers more of that than McDermott.

ALL of you should want boxing CLEANED - UP and stop siiting on the fence, it was bought and paid treachery; and NO we don't have to prove that.

We only need, as fans, scripes and participants to Demand a CLEAN UP of the SPORT, and DEMAND that the SPORT side of boxing TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER the Business of boxing!!!

Yes, but who are these people ON HIGH? Kindly explain who would have ordered this? Who would these shadowy figures be precisely? The only people I can think of would be some sort of betting syndicate looking to guarantee a payout, but that's hardly anything to do with boxing per se, and I'm not sure I believe that O'Connor was paid off by a betting syndicate.

Considering it was Maloney's promotion, and therefore he was paying the officials, it's highly unlikely that this was an inside job if indeed there was anything amiss. More likely it was O'Connor's own doing.

Fury isn't exactly the second coming either - he's selling a few tickets, but lets not get carried away here, he's not our answer to Mike Tyson exactly is he.

This consipiracy theory has a lot of holes in it.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I've said it before and I've said it again - I'd be amazed if the contest was declared a no contest (thereby allowing NEBF to perhaps get his stake back).

It would set a foolish precedent.

A rematch will be mandated, no doubt.

Exactly, - can anyone remember an incidence where the decision HAS been overturned? I'm buggered if I can.

This would result in similar demands every time a fighter disagreed with a decision. At the end of the day, the referee's decision is meant to be final in these instances, or a judges where there are three judges. Like it or lump it - that's how it has to be really.

I've not seen this fight yet, as I cancelled sky sports recently, but will get around to it.

I think that Terry O' Connor should be placed on suspension whilst this is investigated, and he should be forced to sit with the board with a video of the fight, and explain his rationale for scoring each round as he did, along with a panel of his peers, if nothing else, his criteria for scoring a bout need to be explained and justified. If he fails to satisfy the board, he should be demoted and forced to attend training to bring him up to scratch.

Of course, an immediate rematch should also be ordered if the board are not satisfied, and perhaps they could declare it a no contest, though again, this would set a dangerous precedent.

nate campbell-timothy bradley. Completely different set of circumstances though. Or do you just mean British boxing?

Meant British boxing.

[n1ebf]

If he fails to satisfy the board, he should be demoted and forced to attend training to bring him up to scratch.

perhaps they could declare it a no contest, though again, this would set a dangerous precedent.

OH MY GIDDY AUNT!!

extra-curricular refereeing training......at his age??.....if he can't do it by now.....

And dangerous precedent nonsense is a cop-out of taking any action........he didn't just give it the wrong man, he gave him 8 rounds out of ten. We aren't talking about a monthly event here you know...

I think I'm going to have to take a very, very long holiday from this, at times, quite unbelievable forum. :>

[stujones]

Meant British boxing.

No, I don't even know if we have had any mandated rematches (immediate) as a result of a controvesial decision. I don't believe Earl was required to fight Vanzie immediately, and certainly Jimmy Vincent or John Simpson got immediate rematches against David Barnes and John Simpson.

For me, Vincent vs Barnes was the worst scoring in a British title fight I have seen, and also shows the hypocrisy/biasness of the sport. I mean, it can be heard on Camera that Barnes' corner were going to pull him out - after taking a sustained beating - yet then after the fight his corner claimed they thought he won. Anyone who scores that fight for anything less than 3 rounds in Vincents favour is doing Jimmy a great injustice.

I think with this fight - a case could be made of 6-4 in McDermmots favour, possibly even a draw at best. The scoring was rediculous, although unfortunately, I cannot see anything being done.

I can feel NEBF frustration, cause it will look like the BBBoC will have done a great thing mandating McDermmott - but lets be honest, state of English heavyweight boxing - even if Fury would have KO'd Mcdermmott in the last round, chances are Big John would be mandatory for the ENGLISH title again - most of the domestic heavy's are beyond the belt.

[jamesmcdonnell]

If he fails to satisfy the board, he should be demoted and forced to attend training to bring him up to scratch.

perhaps they could declare it a no contest, though again, this would set a dangerous precedent.

OH MY GIDDY AUNT!!

extra-curricular refereeing training......at his age??.....if he can't do it by now.....

And dangerous precedent nonsense is a cop-out of taking any action........he didn't just give it the wrong man, he gave him 8 rounds out of ten. We aren't talking about a monthly event here you know...

I think I'm going to have to take a very, very long holiday from this, at times, quite unbelievable forum. :>

So you would recommend what, that the board overturn the decision ON WHAT BASIS precisely?

Judges and referees make judgement calls, scoring is an imprecise art, and unless you want to go down the route of the mind-numbing computer scoring we have in olympic amateur boxing, then that's always going to be the case.

Referees and judges in Nevada undergo refresher courses all the time and have their scoring margins checked consistently against their peers, if a judge seems to be out of kilter on a lot of fights, then they are reviewed and retrained - so why not do the same here.

Explain to me how the board could justify overturning the decision - who would they get to adjudicate? Someone has to make a decision that O' Connor's original decision is wrong - and who would that person be, who has ultimate authority? Another ref? If not, then whom?

Nobody is saying that they are happy with the situation, but instead of a knee-jerk reaction, try thinking through how this might work.

If they went and fired O'Connor, he could take them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal - so how do they proceed and on what basis.

[Tommy Gunn13]

They wont change the result(it would open a can of worms)

Rematch-Yes

O Conner telling off-Yes

End Of

[n1ebf]

They wont change the result(it would open a can of worms)

I likes worms, worms are good...

[FLINT ISLAND]

throw him in jail

[n1ebf]

If he fails to satisfy the board, he should be demoted and forced to attend training to bring him up to scratch.

perhaps they could declare it a no contest, though again, this would set a dangerous precedent.

OH MY GIDDY AUNT!!

extra-curricular refereeing training......at his age??.....if he can't do it by now.....

And dangerous precedent nonsense is a cop-out of taking any action........he didn't just give it the wrong man, he gave him 8 rounds out of ten. We aren't talking about a monthly event here you know...

I think I'm going to have to take a very, very long holiday from this, at times, quite unbelievable forum. :>

So you would recommend what, that the board overturn the decision ON WHAT BASIS precisely?

On the basis he scored it to the man commonly thought to have lost by a FULL 6 (SIX) rounds. Please follow the thread. If he had scored in Fury by one/ two, there would have been disquiet. He went beyond this and the result is uproar.

[n1ebf]

If he fails to satisfy the board, he should be demoted and forced to attend training to bring him up to scratch.

perhaps they could declare it a no contest, though again, this would set a dangerous precedent.

OH MY GIDDY AUNT!!

extra-curricular refereeing training......at his age??.....if he can't do it by now.....

And dangerous precedent nonsense is a cop-out of taking any action........he didn't just give it the wrong man, he gave him 8 rounds out of ten. We aren't talking about a monthly event here you know...

I think I'm going to have to take a very, very long holiday from this, at times, quite unbelievable forum. :>

Explain to me how the board could justify overturning the decision - who would they get to adjudicate? Someone has to make a decision that O' Connor's original decision is wrong - and who would that person be, who has ultimate authority? Another ref? If not, then whom?

If they went and fired O'Connor, he could take them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal

Constipated thinking. Who would they get?? Are you serious you could pull a judge off the street who has never followed boxing in his life give him a one hour brief, show him a few clips to support the scoring theory, then shut him in a room to watch the fight from last Friday.

And as for "O'Connor could claim unfair dismissal....."......AND???? I can claim that I'm 3rd in line to the throne if I bloody well want to!.....I'm not, I'm twelfth. Let him try to claim it, which he wouldn't. He wouldn't stand a bloody chance with that margin.

[FLINT ISLAND]

On the basis he scored it to the man commonly thought to have lost by a FULL 6 (SIX) rounds. Please follow the thread. If he had scored in Fury by one/ two, there would have been disquiet. He went beyond this and the result is uproar.[/quote]

But even before the scorecards were read out - I think Adam Smith expressed what the majority of people were thinking when he reacted with open shock when the ref raised Furys hand at the final bell.

Then when the scorecards were read out it was just turning a otherwise fanatasic heavyweight fight - into a joke ending.

[n1ebf]

But even before the scorecards were read out - I think Adam Smith expressed what the majority of people were thinking when he reacted with open shock

that's a very good point. And as you say, that was before the card was announced. And did you hear the riotous booing when 98-92 got called out.

[FLINT ISLAND]

But even before the scorecards were read out - I think Adam Smith expressed what the majority of people were thinking when he reacted with open shock

that's a very good point. And as you say, that was before the card was announced. And did you hear the riotous booing when 98-92 got called out.

Exactly - people were shocked just at Furys hand being raised

But then when the card of 98-92 gets announced - you know then its just one big con.

McDermonet regardless of how well he performed was never going to win the decsion - O Connor had decided that before or during the fight I am sure.

[Wales]

Sorry, but you're both talking bollocks (with regards to cheating).

[jamesmcdonnell]

Constipated thinking. Who would they get?? Are you serious you could pull a judge off the street who has never followed boxing in his life give him a one hour brief, show him a few clips to support the scoring theory, then shut him in a room to watch the fight from last Friday.

And as for "O'Connor could claim unfair dismissal....."......AND???? I can claim that I'm 3rd in line to the throne if I bloody well want to!.....I'm not, I'm twelfth. Let him try to claim it, which he wouldn't. He wouldn't stand a bloody chance with that margin.[/quote]

You really are being thick here.

Of course O'Connor could claim unfiar dismissal, for the precise reasons I mentioned. where in his contract with the BBBofC does it state that he can be dismissed for reaching a decision that the general public disagree with.

Oh, and yes sure, pulling a man off the street would really legitimise any subsequent actions isn't it.

You're just not thinking this through are you?

You have to realise the board's position they can't just fire people because of unpopular and 'erroneous' decisions. In a sport where the scoring is by it's nature subjective - that just isn't possible.

Claiming unfair dismissal is very easily done - you cannot go firing people for making a mistake in work - there are due procedures that have to be followed - it's different if your actions were considered gross misconduct.

In fact, the board probably aren't even his employer per se, he will be licensed by the board, but not employed directly by them I would have thought. I presume referees and judges, as they are paid for by the promoters, are probably freelancers who are under license.

There will be guidelines for withdrawing a referee's license, and for demoting them, and the board would have to FOLLOW WHATEVER GUIDELINES ARE DRAWN UP IN IT'S OWN CONSITUTION, otherwise they would face legal action. End of.

[stujones]

James, did you get the chance to read a post I made about a possible method of reviewing a ref's performance?

[dondada]

And dangerous precedent nonsense is a cop-out of taking any action.

Of course it isn't. The action would be making Terry O explain his actions, perhaps a suspension if they weren't happy and a mandated rematch to clear things up.

[n1ebf]

And dangerous precedent nonsense is a cop-out of taking any action.

Of course it isn't. The action would be making Terry O explain his actions, perhaps a suspension if they weren't happy and a mandated rematch to clear things up.

i guess it depends where we are coming from. You're saying he made a human error, in which case possibly suspend (bare in mind how many shows/fights would he actually miss he they binned him for 6 months......3? 4? half a dozen?....next they'll be wanting him to commence any suspension starting the last week in July.....

And I'm saying, in my own personal opinion, putting a helter skelter margin like that down to "human error", does not sit very well with me at all I'm afraid. The man doesn't need a white stick to walk around with...Would a suspension bother him?...What sort of man would get publicly sidelined for incompetence and the take it up again 6 months later....Any self respecting person would walk away.

Also - i've just considered a scenario.....Terry OC serves a ban (we're talking in a completely imaginary world here OK).....it's his first show back......you're an 18 and 6 jobbing professional with mouths to feed and your facing a kid who's 10 and 0......on his own promoter's card. Terry OC's in charge......now tell me.....are ya feeling lucky, Punk?........Well? are ya??

[n1ebf]

There will be guidelines for withdrawing a referee's license, and for demoting them, and the board would have to FOLLOW WHATEVER GUIDELINES ARE DRAWN UP IN IT'S OWN CONSITUTION, otherwise they would face legal action. End of.

well you didn't just come out and say that Jimbo did you?? I think you were thinking it through while you were saying I hadn't thought this one through.

Exactly, the board will have their own ....what was your word....guidelines..to follow. These guidelines, you can guarantee, will include up to and including revocation of refereeing licence. They can't have people going in there willy nilly doing what they want and crying unfair dismissal on their a*ses. They're not stupid!
And incidentally - gross misconduct can legally amount do dismissal, and that's a fact.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes, but making a mistake at work does not count as gross misconduct. Gross misconduct would have been O Connor getting a length of two by four and smacking mcdermott unconscious with it.

I can assure you that the boards own guidelines would not indicate that making a bad call amounts to immediate dismissal.

[jamesmcdonnell]

James, did you get the chance to read a post I made about a possible method of reviewing a ref's performance?

no but was it along similar lines to what myself and Ian have suggested?

[stujones]

Can't remember - I will try and find it amongst the millions of posts on the topic.... Don't want to sound big headed - but I think its a sensible solution.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

I'm saying, in my own personal opinion, putting a helter skelter margin like that down to "human error", does not sit very well with me at all I'm afraid. The man doesn't need a white stick to walk around with...Would a suspension bother him?...What sort of man would get publicly sidelined for incompetence and the take it up again 6 months later....Any self respecting person would walk away.

Also - i've just considered a scenario.....Terry OC serves a ban (we're talking in a completely imaginary world here OK).....it's his first show back......you're an 18 and 6 jobbing professional with mouths to feed and your facing a kid who's 10 and 0......on his own promoter's card. Terry OC's in charge......now tell me.....are ya feeling lucky, Punk?........Well? are ya??

- McD felt comfortable enough with O'conner's 3 previous efforts in his fights including when he won the blamed English bauble to begin with.

I'm saying it's you who needs a white beeping stick, maybe a pair of them along with a beanie equipped with flashing strobe light propellers to alert the public that you're advancing their way. I'd imagine after a high paced fight where the ref had to call time TWICE to get the McD's gumshield replaced after young Tyson graciously knocked it out of his mouth and having to twice save McD from imminent KO after being hurt by Fury's Flurries ( try saying that in fast repetitive time,) and turning his back to run to the ropes in the last round, I'd imagine Mr. O'conner has a considerable degree more insight as to who won the fight.

Where were you washerwomen when McD truly was robbed against Williams in the first fight, outfighting Williams who looked for all the world like he'd rather be DQed than have to fight another lick against McD, enough that the Parris took 4 points away from Williams who still won the fight. Oconner the ref for the rematch, a split, so where were the cries for inquiries in those fights?

Doubtless most already down for the count on your couches to see a proper robbery take place.

[n1ebf]

I'm saying, in my own personal opinion, putting a helter skelter margin like that down to "human error", does not sit very well with me at all I'm afraid. The man doesn't need a white stick to walk around with...Would a suspension bother him?...What sort of man would get publicly sidelined for incompetence and the take it up again 6 months later....Any self respecting person would walk away.

Also - i've just considered a scenario.....Terry OC serves a ban (we're talking in a completely imaginary world here OK).....it's his first show back......you're an 18 and 6 jobbing professional with mouths to feed and your facing a kid who's 10 and 0......on his own promoter's card. Terry OC's in charge......now tell me.....are ya feeling lucky, Punk?........Well? are ya??

- McD felt comfortable enough with O'conner's 3 previous efforts in his fights including when he won the blamed English bauble to begin with.

I'm saying it's you who needs a white beeping stick, maybe a pair of them along with a beanie equipped with flashing strobe light propellers to alert the public that you're advancing their way. I'd imagine after a high paced fight where the ref had to call time TWICE to get the McD's gumshield replaced after young Tyson graciously knocked it out of his mouth and having to twice save McD from imminent KO after being hurt by Fury's Flurries ( try saying that in fast repetitive time,) and turning his back to run to the ropes in the last round, I'd imagine Mr. O'conner has a considerable degree more insight as to who won the fight.

Where were you washerwomen when McD truly was robbed against Williams in the first fight, outfighting Williams who looked for all the world like he'd rather be DQed than have to fight another lick against McD, enough that the Parris took 4 points away from Williams who still won the fight. Oconner the ref for the rematch, a split, so where were the cries for inquiries in those fights?

Doubtless most already down for the count on your couches to see a proper robbery take place.

I didn't see that fight and I can't comment on something I haven't seen. I don't even really want Sky to be honest, for any good thing that's actually on there there's 285 sponsored Ford Focus adverts a week and after the first 5 they just tick me the f*ck off man. That's why I missed that fight.

Don't be a sympathiser. O'Connor was a disgrace.

[oliverfennell]

McD felt comfortable enough with O'conner's 3 previous efforts in his fights including when he won the blamed English bauble to begin with.

But any truth to the rumour McDermott had to rally in that one to get the stoppage in round two, overcoming a four-point deficit after O'Connor scored round 1 to Reid by 10-6?