Why did he fight Tyson in his first title defence ???

Foggy · Post by **Foggy** » 22 Oct 2004, 05:19

I was reading in the paper (Daily Mirror) about Bruno moving on in his life, selling his house etc, when it come to my attention that he only ever won the title and never succesfully defended it, my question is why on earth did he make his first defence against Tyson, why not face a few no hopers make a couple of defences, earn some more money, did he have to face Tyson, was it due to the money Frank could earn boxing Tyson, or was it just the plain simple fact that Frank needed revenge over his old nemesis, anyone know why ????

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 22 Oct 2004, 05:24

Part of the manouvers (still cant spell it even with Gaby Logan's help) for Bruno getting a shot at McCall, was he had to agree to fight Tyson next, not sure how official that is but I think its been reported before.

And of course, Tyson was the money fight....

I wish Bruno was 32 now. You'd fancy him versus Ruiz and Brewster.

Though the old lungs were never made for 12 rounds.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 22 Oct 2004, 05:25

Big money, that's why he fought Tyson. A retirement plan almost. There was always the chance Frank might come unstuck in a marking time fight, or Tyson might go another route, and Big Frank would've missed out on a huge payday.
That's my guess, also the WBC ( ie King ) were probably pressing for the fight too.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Oct 2004, 07:15

I always though that Bruno was given the shot at McCall so Tyson could get an easy ride to a title, it seemed bleedin obvious.

Bruno was nearing the end of his career anyhow, he already had problems with his eyes if I recall, and he was 35 or so when he fought Tyson the second time.

It was a sensible choice, and I'm sure he got paid well as a sacrificial lamb. Poor Frank was terrified going into that fight though, he looked like a man going to the gallows, he knew he was past his best and that Tyson was going to go through him. He admitted as much in an interview some years later.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 22 Oct 2004, 07:35

i remember Bruno not being happy at all with his final purse ( £3-4 million) I think he was expecting more and felt sky or King had pulled a fast one

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Oct 2004, 07:40

Christ, I should be so unhappy. He obviously saw it as his retirement fund.

I always thought that McCall never really tried that hard to beat Frank. Tyson v Bruno was a much better fight to sell than Tyson v McCall.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 22 Oct 2004, 09:29

The McCall/Tyson fights were definitely part of the same deal. Looking back I really feel sorry for big Frank, all that glory on his big night but even then he knew he was heading for a public execution, against one of the most intimidating fighters in history.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Oct 2004, 09:45

I watched a re-run of Tyson v Douglas the other night on tape. And Frank Bruno was in the studio along with a fresh faced McCrory

It was evident how lacking on confidence Bruno was even back then, he was definetly intimidated by Lewis, he was constantly apologising, and you could see Lewis thought he was a little pathetic. Poor old Frank, he really wasn't on the most secure of mental footings even then,

I have a developed a real soft spot for Bruno over the years, I know he gets slated for being crap, but he was a damned sight better than any other british heavyweight except maybe Mason, until Lewis came along.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 22 Oct 2004, 09:49

To those who say Bruno was crap, I say he was the absolute fornicating best he could be. And you can't fornicating ask more than that.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Oct 2004, 09:50

Exactly, to try and fail on the biggest stages like he did, and keep coming back is a testament to his guts as a fighter. There was no dog in Bruno, he just fell short at the top level.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 22 Oct 2004, 10:40

Kilburn wrote:To those who say Bruno was crap, I say he was the absolute fornicating best he could be. And you can't fornicating ask more than that.

well said!!!!!

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 22 Oct 2004, 11:09

Bruno was a world class heavy who failed when he stepped up for the really big tests.

The two things that let him down were lack of stamina and lack of self belief. With a bit more of either, he could have been a very good fighter indeed

As it is, he would be rated top 10 today and have a good shot against any of the current crop

Slapsie

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 22 Oct 2004, 11:36

Frank certainly wasn't intimidated by Lewis when he fought him. He made LL look very ordinary IMO. Had he been a bit quicker he may have even knocked Lewis out, but he just couldn't find the right kind of punch to hurt Lewis.

Although you can see Frank tiring after the third, he was right in that fight right up until Lewis caught him with that counter left hook.

I bet Lewis' team were cacking it big time before the end of that fight. Not one of his best.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Oct 2004, 11:54

You're quite right. I wasn't saying he was scared in the ring, merely that he seemed intellectually intimidated. Just Frank's nature I think, he wasn't exactly brimming with confidence. He found it so hard to express himself, he was constantly aplogising and second guessing himself, it was clear he was very uncomfortable in the TV studio. Perhaps because he was with

Having watched that fight last night, I have to say that Tyson looked listless even before the first bell. He looked in poor shape too, flabby around the back, and he was slow of foot and thought.

I also think in hindsight that douglas should have been counted out. One of his hands was still on the floor, and the ref seemed to wait until he was up before tolling 10, he definetly gave him more time than he deserved.

Douglas was well and truly on queer street, had that bell not gone, I have no doubt that Tyson would have flattened him for the count.

He showed pretty amazing powers of recovery though, and it's not his fault the referee gave a very slow count.

Had the referee counted correctly though, I very much doubt Douglas would have made it up by 10, he really had to haul himself up with all his might. His contention that he was in control of his faculties, was patent cobblers.

One thing that occurs to me, is that in boxing matches, the timekeeper should issue the count from a machine, which is connected to speakers around the ring. That way there is no way the referee could make an error. Surely the timekeeper should give the count? It could be hooked up to the PA system as well so everyone hears it simultaneously.

The timekeeper presses a button with a recording of a 10 second count, which is used each time, that way the counts will be accurate.

Can anyone see any flaws in this system?

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 22 Oct 2004, 12:21

All I know is, with the shock factor aside, Tyson v Douglas is one of the best heavyweight title fights I've ever seen.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Oct 2004, 12:23

Yes, it's true, it's a fornicating great fight, lots of action, moments of drama, and the shellacking Tyson takes at the end. He came so close to turning it around with that one punch.

I wondered just how different things might have been had that punch came 10 seconds earlier, Douglas would never have escaped the round.

Tyson would probably have realised he had to get his shit together, and without the mental fallout of losing the title, he may have gone on to become a much more dedicated fighter. The loss of his title certainly dented his confidence, because he took on very weak opposition in the main after that fight.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 22 Oct 2004, 13:09

I've always had a softspot for Bruno, watching him on the BBC as an undefeated Heavyweight hope bombing out a load of Americain imports was part of my introduction to Boxing.

mulder · Post by **mulder** » 24 Oct 2004, 08:28

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, it's true, it's a fornicating great fight, lots of action, moments of drama, and the shellacking Tyson takes at the end. He came so close to turning it around with that one punch.

I wondered just how different things might have been had that punch came 10 seconds earlier, Douglas would never have escaped the round.

Tyson would probably have realised he had to get his shit together, and without the mental fallout of losing the title, he may have gone on to become a much more dedicated fighter. The loss of his title certainly dented his confidence, because he took on very weak opposition in the main after that fight.

nice to see someone saw the fight how it was......douglas lost!....It was all part of a set up to get tyson off the top he was ruining the game for the moneymen. He was out of it from the first bell but dug deep and pulled out a peach.....long count.....bullshit rape allegation......streetbrawls......the rest is history. He could have been one of the greats.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 24 Oct 2004, 09:11

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, it's true, it's a fornicating great fight, lots of action, moments of drama, and the shellacking Tyson takes at the end. He came so close to turning it around with that one punch.

I wondered just how different things might have been had that punch came 10 seconds earlier, Douglas would never have escaped the round.

Tyson would probably have realised he had to get his shit together, and without the mental fallout of losing the title, he may have gone on to become a much more dedicated fighter. The loss of his title certainly dented his confidence, because he took on very weak opposition in the main after that fight.

He would have lost it in his next defence or the one after that.

Tyson is one of these people who has an in-built self-destruct mechanism, intent on fornicating their own life up. Gazza has it, I know people with it, through gambling, drugs, whatever, they are comdemed for all eterinity to keep making 'new starts' and keep on messing them up.

The funny thing about it all are people like mulder here who still spend their life fretting over them when there are far more worthy fighters to save your sperm for.

mulder · Post by **mulder** » 24 Oct 2004, 10:11

WHO? audley harrison? yeah right.....If they ever invent a time machine and bring back jack dempsey i'll gladly stop frettin' over Iron mike.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 24 Oct 2004, 12:35

mulder wrote:WHO? audley harrison? yeah right.....If they ever invent a time machine and bring back jack dempsey i'll gladly stop frettin' over Iron mike.

Try Bernard Hopkins, Erik Morales, Kostya Tszyu e.t.c....

mulder · Post by **mulder** » 24 Oct 2004, 13:54

ALRIGHT ALRIGHT......Nobody liikes a smartarse. It's not big and it's not clever.

All i'm saying is ( i doubt he'll climb back) Tyson has left a hole in the heavyweight division that will take some filling.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 24 Oct 2004, 18:54

I don't believe it's all part of some conspiracy to rob Tyson of the title, he was worth far more in boxing than out of it.

Although Tyson had a self destructive streak, certain events occuring at a specific point in time can have different effects. Tyson may well have coped differently had he made it through that fight. of course it's just hypothetical.

I do think Douglas was fornicating lucky to get out of that fight and win though. He should have been counted out. however, he got up and he won, not his fault if the count is too long.

mulder · Post by **mulder** » 24 Oct 2004, 20:05

How do you think all those capo de monte chappie's felt when they could'nt get there big dollar bets on.And no sooner had they sat down ringside the young Tyson had mashed up the opposition and they had to piss off home again to sort out that big shipment and shoot somebody

.......Shit there are probably a few guys proppin up motorway bridges who would have got off if tyson had'nt have been so consistent........Well.... its just a thought! Like the man said THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!!!!